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  1. #1
    First Sergeant SGT Rock's Avatar
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    Default !!!Attention thru- hikers and anyone else going into GSMNP after Feb 13!!!

    I just got off the phone with someone that was on the beta test of the new system.

    YOU WILL HAVE TO HAVE A PRINTED COPY OF YOUR PERMIT!!!

    Printed copies can be made by printing it off from the computer you used to confirm the reservation, or from the copy they will mail to you. There will not be a permit you can fill out by hand and use.

    This is counter to what I was told when I went to the open house on this issue. There they were saying that you wouldn't need one if stopped, all you would need is a valid permit number. Back then the idea was to cut down on paper use and make it user friendly. I guess user friendly is out.

    This means that you will have to stop somewhere at some point and get a printed permit from a computer for your paid permit. If you leave Springer Mountain with your permit and guesstimate your entry date you should still be good even if you are off a few days. Getting your permit before you leave Springer is probably the best way to go. If you don't do it then, you will have to find a computer to print it off from at some town on the way there like Hiwassee, Franklin, Fontana, etc.

    For MST and BMT hikers this is counter to what I have been saying up until now. If you are going to camp in the GSMNP back country you will have to have a printed permit. I was just told that there would no longer be a permit you can fill out before entering the park unless you go directly to the Sugarlands Reservation office. So if you are planning to do the BMT and were going to call in your permit before starting at either Big Creek or Twentymile, this means you will not be able to make this work. They will want to know where to mail a copy of your permit, and saying "I'm leaving Big Creek Ranger Station in 10 minutes" is not going to be a valid option.

    I know this sucks. Every time I think I'm starting to get a handle on this there is some new snag. I personally cannot see the Park Service wanting to cite anyone for not having a paper permit on their person if they do really posses a valid reservation because it would likely get thrown out in court if a hiker was to want to push it - and given the mood of many hikers over this I imagine there may be one or two willing to. It's hard to justify a citation when someone has followed all the rules and has lost their paper copy (hint).

    I thought I better put this out there, I don't want anyone getting into trouble thinking they are doing the right thing. If you have issues (and you probably do) please call the Park Service at the number they have provided for this: 865-436-1207

    Maybe with enough real world problems with the system they have created and complaints from users, they will fix this policy.
    SGT Rock
    http://hikinghq.net

    My 2008 Trail Journal of the BMT/AT

    BMT Thru-Hikers' Guide
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    NO SNIVELING

  2. #2
    Registered User canoe's Avatar
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    Thanks SGT

  3. #3
    Registered User cliffdiver's Avatar
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    I don't understand how the GSMNP think that a thru-hiker would have access to a computer/printer along the way? Why can't they just print a receipt or carbon copy that sucker at the entrance? I've never been hiking through there, but with my upcoming thru-hike February 25th, it sure throws a new wrinkle on my plans. Thanks for the info.

  4. #4
    First Sergeant SGT Rock's Avatar
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    I hope the info I got is somehow wrong. But the source is rock solid and is someone that has brought these issues up with the right people in the park. So it's probably right. In that case I'll hope that there is better guidance on how to enforce this that will not end up in screwing up folks hikes.

    Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2
    SGT Rock
    http://hikinghq.net

    My 2008 Trail Journal of the BMT/AT

    BMT Thru-Hikers' Guide
    -----------------------------------------

    NO SNIVELING

  5. #5

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    I thought thru-hikers were going to be able to get the permit online, but not have to fill in dates until they get to the entrance, then put in the date on 2 different halves then put one half in the drop box and carry the other half with them. The permit was supposed to be good for 38 days with an 8 day time frame to thru the park. Has this changed allready?
    "Hiking is as close to God as you can get without going to Church." - BobbyJo Sargent aka milkman Sometimes it's nice to take a long walk in THE FOG.

  6. #6
    First Sergeant SGT Rock's Avatar
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    A thru hiker permit will be good for 38 days and you will get 8 days to get through the park.

    BUT you will have to get your permit printed out from a computer or mailed to you. There will not be the old permit where you filled it out and put one half in a box and carry the other.

    That is unless you can get through the park before February 13th.
    SGT Rock
    http://hikinghq.net

    My 2008 Trail Journal of the BMT/AT

    BMT Thru-Hikers' Guide
    -----------------------------------------

    NO SNIVELING

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by SGT Rock View Post
    A thru hiker permit will be good for 38 days and you will get 8 days to get through the park.

    BUT you will have to get your permit printed out from a computer or mailed to you. There will not be the old permit where you filled it out and put one half in a box and carry the other.

    That is unless you can get through the park before February 13th.
    How will they know what date you entered the park?
    "Hiking is as close to God as you can get without going to Church." - BobbyJo Sargent aka milkman Sometimes it's nice to take a long walk in THE FOG.

  8. #8
    First Sergeant SGT Rock's Avatar
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    You forecast it on your permit when you go on-line to set it up. If your off by a few days it won't matter. As to catching you with bad dates that will only happen if a park ranger asks to see your permit.
    SGT Rock
    http://hikinghq.net

    My 2008 Trail Journal of the BMT/AT

    BMT Thru-Hikers' Guide
    -----------------------------------------

    NO SNIVELING

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by SGT Rock View Post
    You forecast it on your permit when you go on-line to set it up. If your off by a few days it won't matter. As to catching you with bad dates that will only happen if a park ranger asks to see your permit.
    Okay. I misunderstood an earlier post from Laurie from the ATC. Someone said to wait until you got to the NOC to get a permit as they had agreed to let hikers use the computer and printer but do they not open until the 1st of May.
    Last edited by atmilkman; 01-29-2013 at 17:56.
    "Hiking is as close to God as you can get without going to Church." - BobbyJo Sargent aka milkman Sometimes it's nice to take a long walk in THE FOG.

  10. #10
    First Sergeant SGT Rock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atmilkman View Post
    Okay. I misunderstood an earlier post from Lori from the ATC. Someone said to wait until you got to the NOC to get a permit as they had agreed to let hikers use the computer and printer but do they not open until the 1st of May.
    I don't fault Lori on that at all. That is probably what she was told recently as well. I got my information from someone that was involved in the Park Service beta test of the new system and it was not exactly like any of us have been told up until now. I know I've talked directly with park service managers on this and even what they told me ended up wrong. This new plan is not clearly spelled out on their website even now, and some of these things you find out only after you go through the whole payment process. I'm trying to help people avoid finding these things out at the last minute the hard way. In the past, the park service permit system was time tested, well known, and foolproof. Now it is like a Rubik Cube.

    The NOC is open before 1 May, they host the Southern Ruck in January, have their own trail think in March, and I've used them as a drop in April.

    But that would be a legitimate place to get one printed. There, Fontana, Franklin, Hiwasee, etc. If you leave Springer with one forecasting you will enter the park in about 2-3 weeks after starting the AT you will probably be right.
    SGT Rock
    http://hikinghq.net

    My 2008 Trail Journal of the BMT/AT

    BMT Thru-Hikers' Guide
    -----------------------------------------

    NO SNIVELING

  11. #11
    First Sergeant SGT Rock's Avatar
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    I'm bout to head off for tonight. I'll try to answer any questions as best I can when I get home from work tomorrow night.

    Sorry to dump this on you all at this point and time.
    SGT Rock
    http://hikinghq.net

    My 2008 Trail Journal of the BMT/AT

    BMT Thru-Hikers' Guide
    -----------------------------------------

    NO SNIVELING

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SGT Rock View Post
    I'm bout to head off for tonight. I'll try to answer any questions as best I can when I get home from work tomorrow night.

    Sorry to dump this on you all at this point and time.
    Better now than find out in Fontana. Thanks for doing the leg & phone work Sarge!

  13. #13

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    Amazing! The Park Service could muck up a McDonald's franchise in Times Square.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by SGT Rock View Post
    I don't fault Lori on that at all. That is probably what she was told recently as well. I got my information from someone that was involved in the Park Service beta test of the new system and it was not exactly like any of us have been told up until now. I know I've talked directly with park service managers on this and even what they told me ended up wrong. This new plan is not clearly spelled out on their website even now, and some of these things you find out only after you go through the whole payment process. I'm trying to help people avoid finding these things out at the last minute the hard way. In the past, the park service permit system was time tested, well known, and foolproof. Now it is like a Rubik Cube.

    The NOC is open before 1 May, they host the Southern Ruck in January, have their own trail think in March, and I've used them as a drop in April.

    But that would be a legitimate place to get one printed. There, Fontana, Franklin, Hiwasee, etc. If you leave Springer with one forecasting you will enter the park in about 2-3 weeks after starting the AT you will probably be right.
    Will do. Thanks for the info. Very much appreciated.
    "Hiking is as close to God as you can get without going to Church." - BobbyJo Sargent aka milkman Sometimes it's nice to take a long walk in THE FOG.

  15. #15

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    Hopefully, some hiker services will come up with solutions.

    wireless printer that a smart phone can print to would be all it takes.

    Heck they could put one at that dam gift shop.

    Probably too complicated for them.

  16. #16

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    Most people take 2 to 3 weeks to get to GSMNP from Springer. Seeing they give you 30 days, buying a permit just before you head out should work. If it takes you more then 30 days to cover 165 miles, you got bigger problems then loosing 20 bucks.

    The new fees are just one more reason I perfer the National Forest, the land of many abuses.
    Follow slogoen on Instagram.

  17. #17
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    Great. I haven't hiked with weight since I was 28 (twice that age now) and I'm supposed to KNOW how far I'm gonna get each day up and down mountains in a huge State Park.......after living in Utterly Flatsville Florida for 20 years........the fee doesn't bother me all that much, but the nitpicking does. I just want to hike my hike, that's all.

  18. #18
    Registered User ChinMusic's Avatar
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    Trail angels with laptops and printers this year.....lol
    Fear ridges that are depicted as flat lines on a profile map.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by SGT Rock View Post

    YOU WILL HAVE TO HAVE A PRINTED COPY OF YOUR PERMIT!!!
    I hate the GSMNP so the only time I hike there is on a thru or up to the Mt LeConte Lodge. And its been years since I've done that.

    The paper permit requirement is consistent with what Laurie P of the ATC told us a week ago. The ATC has recommended that thru hikers print out their permits just before they leave home to start their hike.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon View Post
    Great. I haven't hiked with weight since I was 28 (twice that age now) and I'm supposed to KNOW how far I'm gonna get each day up and down mountains in a huge State Park.......after living in Utterly Flatsville Florida for 20 years........the fee doesn't bother me all that much, but the nitpicking does. I just want to hike my hike, that's all.
    If you are a thru hiker you can decide THAT DAY what shelter you want to stay at. If you are a section hiker, yes, you have to figure out how far you're gonna hike each day. Same as every other section hiker. If you don't like the rules do what I do -- hike somewhere else.

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