Advice wanted re: entering Smokies

[zag]

Hi there,
Myself & 3 others in my group have been stuck in Fontana since Friday, waiting for the winter storm to pass through the Smokies. We are debating whether to start tomorrow, and would like your thoughts. We all have 10-15 degree bags and appropriate clothing, but we don't have snow gaiters or microspikes/crampons.

We are all tired of being stuck and want to keep moving. But, we want to be smart about it. None of us have hiked through the Smokies in snow before (and frankly our winter hiking experience is limited).

The GSMNP twitter feed said today that between Fontana & the 113 campsite (~ 6 miles into the Smokies) there is 1 foot of snow and up to 3 feet drifts. We called the backcountry office earlier today and they said they have pulled at least 7 hikers who were having trouble off the mountain at Newfound Gap (even though the road is closed) in whiteout conditions today, and they are not letting people back on the trail.

Our options seem to be:
1) stay put in Fontana and wait for the weather/snow to clear. (How to tell when it is safe to go?).
2) get transport around the Smokies (to Hot Springs? Erwin? Other?); come back and finish the Smokies later on.
3) go.

I really wish there was a "go/no go" advisory at Fontana Dam, but WB is the closest thing we have. If you were us, what would you do?

[SGT Rock]

Take the BMT through the Smokies.

[The Cleaner]

IMO it will take several days for the snow to melt away.It may stay deep on the shaded/north facing slopes till a significant rain helps reduce snow levels.Get a shuttle around and come back later to do the Smokies.Due to over 10" of rain in Jan.and with all the snow some of the fords on the BMT may be a problem.I'm not sure how many there are,maybe SGT Rock has this info...

[SGT Rock]

There are currently a few fords, but I've made them all in this sort of weather without an issue. There are a couple of places where the BMT is up high, but not like the AT which stays up on the ridge. You can be a few days on the BMT while the snow melts on the higher elevations before you get to them to worry about crossing them. Noland Creek's lowest ford will be about knee height, and Enloe Creek (if they still haven't replaced the bridge) will also be a little over your knees.

[SOBO_Pace]

A bunch of sobo's got hung up before the smokies some even had to be rescued in GSMNP. There was snow when I came thru at the end of November. The snow is going to slow you down considerably! It turned a easy 20 mile day from the Captains to Pearisburg into a 2 day hike. Actually 3 day because the first we only made it 1 mile in 1 hour. The next we hiked all day at that same speed from daylight to dusk and were still 7 miles short of Pearisburg, and now out of food. Still it makes for a great story and as miserable as it was is still one of my favorite weeks of my journey.
The shelters through the GSMNP are nice and big and if I remember they all have fireplaces in them. Also I'm not sure how the resupply is in Gatlinburg now with the road stuff or if it is even still an issue.

PACE

[Bati]

I really wish there was a "go/no go" advisory at Fontana Dam, but WB is the closest thing we have. If you were us, what would you do?

It's a choice no one can make but you. You know what your map and compass skills are as you will need them! (if it's cold, expect your GPS battery to die), how much food you feel comfortable carrying, what type of stove you have (hopefully white gas), how much of you is protected by gore-tex and heavy polypro or fleece, and what kind of physical and mental shape you're in. My past experiences with bad weather on the AT indicate that if it's seriously bad, help should arrive in about 5 days, and they will shut the park as they did in '93, deny you permits, inspect your gear, and/or forcibly evacuate. It sounds like they're doing some of that at Newfound Gap. Note that weather far less than "seriously bad" can easily kill or maim you.

What is impassible to one group and requires waiting for a helicopter rescue may be a beautiful day for a low-mileage backpacking trip for another group. A foot of snow and 3 foot drifts isn't impassable for most thru-hikers, but if you have trail runners, you may be looking at frostbite (so please bag your feet) and don't expect to be doing mileage in the double-digits. Only you can decide where you fall, and you can decide that by hiking in for 2 or hours and then deciding to turn around at the first sign of danger, or by bailing. Neither is a bad decision as long as you know when to turn around if the short hike gets dangerous. keep in mind that putting yourself in a position to get rescued can make it harder for other hikers, who may have better gear, as well as put rescuers at risk. If anyone tries to call you on a decision to blue blaze on the BMT with it's lower elevations or to yellow-blaze around it, ignore them. It's your life and your fingers and toes. As the saying goes "The mark of a good mountaineer is not how many mountains they've climbed, it's how many they've turned around on".

If you have access to a ranger and you want to enjoy a backpacking trip, not meet the ATC's definition of a thru-hiker, then try asking about conditions on the BMT and take that route. Expect snowmelt issues to create high water on the dangerous fords, frozen toes on the minor fords, and difficulty finding the trial when you're not on the lakeshore due to a lack of blazes. In addition, note the lack of shelters- I found they had some great features when it dumped an extra 6 inches of snow in the smokies.

[Maybe one day]

I have been in the GSMNP during bad winter weather. It is no fun. Don't become the next SAR report. Reroute or hold up. If you must move, then look at Fontana Village, Hike Inn, or possibly Robbinsville.

[Slo-go'en]

If thier not letting people back on the trail, there's your answer right there. Getting a shuttle around the park isn't going to be cheap, but if there's a bunch of you to split it up, it won't be too bad. But then, conditions north might not be a whole lot better for the next few days anyway.

[Praha4]

your best options are:

a. stay put wait a few more days for the snow to melt, next week will be a lot warmer
b. hitch a ride or get a shuttle or bus beyond the Smokies, but you would have to go much further north than Hot Springs or Erwin, cuz you still have Roan Mtn, Unaka Mtn, and Mt Rogers north of Damascus to cross. Central Virginia still has snow too. Also if you skip the Smokies, it's likely you won't get back to do it.

not trying to be a "told u so", but this is why it's a lot smarter to wait to strart a thru hike til April.

good luck

[The Cleaner]

your best options are:

a. stay put wait a few more days for the snow to melt, next week will be a lot warmer
b. hitch a ride or get a shuttle or bus beyond the Smokies, but you would have to go much further north than Hot Springs or Erwin, cuz you still have Roan Mtn, Unaka Mtn, and Mt Rogers north of Damascus to cross. Central Virginia still has snow too. Also if you skip the Smokies, it's likely you won't get back to do it.

not trying to be a "told u so", but this is why it's a lot smarter to wait to strart a thru hike til April.

good luck

Its going to take more than "a few days" for several feet of snow to melt away.Another weather system with rain&wind from the south will help.

[Bronk]

I'd park myself at the Fontana Hilton and sit there all day...wait for 10 or 12 brave souls to go ahead of you and break the trail for you. There are surely other people in the park on the AT that went up there before the storm hit and will be breaking the trail to Newfound Gap...by the time you get up there others will already have done some of the hard work. Take a few extra days worth of food in case you have to hole up for awhile.

Keep in mind that if Newfound Gap is closed then it may be very difficult to get out for resupply and be prepared to go all the way to Davenport Gap if you try it. And its also possible that if they are pulling hikers out at Newfound gap then they won't let you go back in. Or if you get to Newfound and its closed and there's no way to hitch out and you're forced to continue the trail may not be broken from Newfound onward. Several scenarios could develop and you'll need to be ready for all of them. Which means extra food and dry clothing.

[daddytwosticks]

I'd go with choice #2. Keep moving.

[10-K]

If I were doing this I would not think of it as "hiking through the Smokies."

I would break it up into one shelter at a time with the objective to just get to the next shelter. Then stop and think.

Note that it's also easy to sit at the keyboard and say "I would do this." and "I would do that." but you're the one that's out there....

[moldy]

This is what will happen in the high country. It will take about 3 or 4 days for the snow pack to consolidate after the storm. The sun and temps above 32 will make the surface melt a little each day followed by overnight freezing. This will cause the snow to get packed down enough to hike on top of in 3 or 4 days. The conditions above 5,000 feet will be snow covered and very slippery but hikable. It will be cold at night. In 3 or 4 days the other hikers will have worn a path on the AT that will make navagation easy but muddy in the afternoon. Hikers chief problems will be cold sleeping, wet feet from the muck and the trail will be icy causing frequent falls on the up and down slopes. My advice for hiking the Smokies 3 or 4 days after a big storm, all your warm clothing, extra socks, and crampons if you can find any. If you can't wait 3 to 4 days than get a group, hire a shuttle and go to Standing Bear farm at Davenport Gap and hike North to Hot Springs NC. It is lower elevation hiking. When you get to Hot Springs get a shuttle back to Fontana and do the park, then have Curtis (the guy at Standing Bear shuttle you to Hot Springs) 7 days from now bluebirds will be singing, the chief complaint for hikers will be the heat. Hang in there man.

[mountain squid]

This is interesting and it makes me think of all the 'how much money should I have?' threads. It has already been 5 nights of holing up at Fontana. 'Assuming' hikers are sharing lodging expenses, I figure it is at least $20 per night, if not more. So that is $100 already. That is 1/10 of a $1000 and zero hiking miles (and that is not including food expenses). Of course, those that have limited funds may also have spent 5 very colds days at the Fontana Hilton eating Ramen noodles . . . . or maybe they're the ones that had to be plucked off the mountain.

If I were there now, I am not sure what I'd do. If I had already waited 5 days I would probably wait a few more, just to be safe and then take extra food with. Waiting a few more days will likely be cheaper that taking a shuttle around. SGT Rock's suggestion of the BMT is also a good one. But I'd be worried about being the only one on that trail and not really knowing the route. I looked on my NatGeo map and didn't see it listed?!? Maybe you could find a map in Fontana?

I'm also wondering if there is an alternate cold weather route through the Smoky's. Maybe it is the BMT. I looked on ATC's webpage but couldn't find anything specific. If you did do the BMT because of weather, I don't think it would strip you of your potential '2000 miler' status, but don't know for sure. Per ATC: In the event of a trail closure or a safety hazard (such as a swollen stream, a forest fire, or an impending storm on an exposed ridge) hikers may take alternate routes (including by vehicle) and still receive official 2,000-miler recognition.

Good Luck and Have Fun! Be Safe! We'll save some snow for you in the Roan Highlands!

See you on the trail,
mt squid

[10-K]

The BMT in the Smokies is on existing trails. One of those $1 park maps outlines the BMT. It's actually pretty straightforward. The fords would be my chief concern.

[Zippy Morocco]

We are stuck in Erwin. 9 of us bailed at Sams gap just before bald mountain. We were hiking in 3 foot drifts. Bald mountain has reports of 6 foot drifts from a couple of southbounders. So Erwin is not much better.

When we went through the smokies a week or so ago it was very icy and windy. I imagine it is very hard traveling now. I think your main problem would be carrying enough food for the trip. We were eating constantly and hiking at 1 to 1.5 miles an hour and we are quick hikers normally.

We

[Zippy Morocco]

Some of our crew is heading back out tomorrow but Diddo and I are have a wedding to attend so we will start again in a little over a week. Maybe we'll see you then.

Good luck!

[10-K]

I think I talked to you guys on the phone - glad you made it into town.

I just came back from Sam's Gap and wouldn't have been able to get up there without my Jeep. In a few days it'll be like it never happened - just wait it out.

[max patch]

In the event of a trail closure or a safety hazard (such as a swollen stream, a forest fire, or an impending storm on an exposed ridge) hikers may take alternate routes (including by vehicle) and still receive official 2,000-miler recognition.

Who the hell slipped in the part about yellow blazing being acceptable? The quote above is from the ATC website but the 2,000 miler application states that only "officially required roadwalks" are acceptable. Nothing about jumping into a car.

I wasn't going to comment but the above required clarification.

Since I'm already here...if I was hiking now (and I wouldn't because this is what happens when you start too early) I believe I'd conclude that the conditions were unsafe and would take the BMT thru the park. This meets the standards of the 2,000 miler program. For my own personal standard I'd return at hikes end and do the AT thru the park.