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  1. #101
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    If I had a concealed permit, I'd carry one (shave some weight off it 1st ). Couldn't hurt (cause I know how to handle 1 & respect it). Just don't get caught in MD without a carry permit. Martin O'Malley will have you thrown in prison for 10-15 & seize anything you have of value.

  2. #102
    ME => GA 19AT3 rickb's Avatar
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    (If there have been 0 section hikers murdered in spite of there being lot more total man hours on the trail than thru-hikers, well that would be remarkable and a totally different discussion.
    0ne long distance section hiker has been murdered on the AT. That was the most recent killing-- less than 2 years ago. He was not included in the total of 5.

  3. #103

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    Murders on the AT by state, year and number of victums:

    GA - 1974 - 1
    TN - 1975 - 1
    VA - 1981 - 2 (double murder)
    PA - 1988 - 1 (one wounded, double murder attemt. Two woman having sex in shelter and thats a reason to shoot them?)
    PA - 1990 -2 (another double murder)
    VA - 1996 -2 (SNP, double murder again!)
    VA - 2012 -1 (SNP again, section hiker)

    So, it looks like you should stay away from VA (SNP in perticular) and PA and only hike in odd numbered years, since only two murders have happend on an odd number year and both of those were a long time ago. Therefor 2013 should be safe. Also, since most of these were double murders, hike alone.
    Follow slogoen on Instagram.

  4. #104
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    Totally agree! If we all stay inside to keep ourselves "safe" no one would enjoy the wonderful outdoors. Look for the good in people but be cautious.
    Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body- but to skid in sideways, totally worn out shouting "Holy cow, what a ride!"

  5. #105
    ME => GA 19AT3 rickb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyPaper View Post
    To do a correct analysis that includes non thru-hikers, we'd need to know how many day hikers and section hikers are murdered on the trail.
    Since I was only given the number of thru-hikers, that's the population I measured against. Also, from my experience, based on the
    number of thru-hikers I meet, the total number of hours spent on the trail by thru-hikers, versus non-thru hikers is more than a tiny fraction,
    although certainly less than half.



    If we compared the number of people murdered in their homes, we'd have to add in all hours spent at home, not just time
    watching TV. After all, it is not a matter of the total number of murders, it is a matter of the total number of murders
    compared to the total amount of man hours spent. Also, a number of home murders are at the hands of estranged/angry lovers,
    or the result of drug deals gone bad which are a different sort of animal in that we all know pretty well whether our odds
    are elevated when compared to the general population. After all, an estranged lover would just wait until we return
    from the AT to kill us, and the relative safety of the locations is irrelevant.

    For most of us, the most interesting comparison would be the likelihood of being murdered by a stranger in our homes based on
    our current lifestyle (not counting the lifestyles of drug dealers and other criminals of which most of us are not) versus the likelihood
    of being murdered on the AT. I'd be willing to bet that most of our living rooms are much safer than the AT. But if someone has
    a valid statistical analysis, I'm open minded.

    But aside from all this, we can do a crude analysis based on raw numbers. There were 13,756 murders per year in the US in 2008.
    And 304 million people. That means that there were 1.145 murders per million man-hours of life. If we take the 5 murders of thru-hikers over 80
    years. Thru-hiking was not real popular before around 30 years ago. If we say that over the last 30 years there have been an average of 500
    thru-hikers spending 6 full months on the trail (and this may be generous). Prior to 30 years ago, the hours would be negligible and can
    probably be ignored based on overestimating in the last 30 years. This leads to 1.984 murders per million man hours of thru-hiking on the AT.
    (If there have been 0 section hikers murdered in spite of there being lot more total man hours on the trail than thru-hikers, well that
    would be remarkable and a totally different discussion. But I suspect some non-thru-hikers have been murdered too).

    So this leads me to think that hiking is a tad less safe (as far as murders go) than ordinary living. And for those of us who aren't in street gangs,
    nor are prostitutes, nor are married to a hot-head spouse, that would mean our ordinary life is safer than the average since we are not in a high
    risk group.
    Logic is good but your math is way off.

  6. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slo-go'en View Post
    Murders on the AT by state, year and number of victums:

    GA - 1974 - 1
    TN - 1975 - 1
    VA - 1981 - 2 (double murder)
    PA - 1988 - 1 (one wounded, double murder attemt. Two woman having sex in shelter and thats a reason to shoot them?)
    PA - 1990 -2 (another double murder)
    VA - 1996 -2 (SNP, double murder again!)
    VA - 2012 -1 (SNP again, section hiker)

    So, it looks like you should stay away from VA (SNP in perticular) and PA and only hike in odd numbered years, since only two murders have happend on an odd number year and both of those were a long time ago. Therefor 2013 should be safe. Also, since most of these were double murders, hike alone.
    I'm not sure if we're talking about the same one or not, but the last VA trail murder I remember is from 2011 and NOT in SNP:
    http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/ap...7098a7802.html

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickb View Post
    Logic is good but your math is way off.
    You're right. I hesitate to assert anything based on more calculations after erring so badly,
    but it appears I've overstated the danger of both being on the trail and being off the trail.
    It appears the relative danger even more skewed toward the trail than regular life than
    I claimed.

    I know some don't like to hear this.

  8. #108

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    okay anyway id rather die hiking

  9. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyPaper View Post
    I hike, I play chess, I crunch numbers. I don't see this as an either/or problem.
    Hey FlyPaper... I don't have a problem with you crunching numbers, playing chess or hiking.

    As for myself, I'm not going to worry about the number crunching. It means absolutely nothing to me because no matter what it "proves", it will have no effect on me, whatsoever. I'm not going to do anything differently.

    Maybe others might feel differently.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by HikerMomKD View Post
    Hey FlyPaper... I don't have a problem with you crunching numbers, playing chess or hiking.

    As for myself, I'm not going to worry about the number crunching. It means absolutely nothing to me because no matter what it "proves", it will have no effect on me, whatsoever. I'm not going to do anything differently.

    Maybe others might feel differently.
    Good for you. And no matter what the number crunching shows, I'll be out on the trail as soon as I can.

    BTW: I Scuba dive too. I'm under the impression that's a LOT more dangerous than hiking.

  11. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyPaper View Post
    Good for you. And no matter what the number crunching shows, I'll be out on the trail as soon as I can.

    BTW: I Scuba dive too. I'm under the impression that's a LOT more dangerous than hiking.
    Well then- we agree! Nice! BTW... I tried Scuba diving but I couldn't do it. My brain kept sending me the message that I wasn't supposed to be sitting on the bottom of a pool for 15 minutes or more without coming up for air.... LOL! I never could get my breathing straightened out. I'm jealous of you being able to do it.. I feel like I missed out on a LOT of fun!

  12. #112

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slo-go'en View Post
    Murders on the AT by state, year and number of victums:

    GA - 1974 - 1
    TN - 1975 - 1
    VA - 1981 - 2 (double murder)
    PA - 1988 - 1 (one wounded, double murder attemt. Two woman having sex in shelter and thats a reason to shoot them?)
    PA - 1990 -2 (another double murder)
    VA - 1996 -2 (SNP, double murder again!)
    VA - 2012 -1 (SNP again, section hiker)

    So, it looks like you should stay away from VA (SNP in perticular) and PA and only hike in odd numbered years, since only two murders have happend on an odd number year and both of those were a long time ago. Therefor 2013 should be safe. Also, since most of these were double murders, hike alone.
    ,

    As Slo points out, you can't extrapolate the existing data to draw any meaningful conclusions. If you could, then most obvious conclusion to be reached is that lesbians should not hike on the AT.

  13. #113

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    the things i feared the most in my life never came to pass.
    winston churchill


    There are indeed (who might say Nay) gloomy & hypochondriac minds, inhabitants of diseased bodies, disgusted with the present, & despairing of the future; always counting that the worst will happen, because it may happen. To these I say How much pain have cost us the evils which have never happened!”
    Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, Apr. 8, 1816

  14. #114
    Registered User canoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDuckOnTheJunebug View Post
    I'm not sure if we're talking about the same one or not, but the last VA trail murder I remember is from 2011 and NOT in SNP:
    http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/ap...7098a7802.html
    I dont remember a 2012 SNP murder

  15. #115

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    I find I am more the threat to others on the trail based upon sometimes their scrutiny or reserve they exhibit. I had one shelter guy follow me to the spring at a Virginia shelter one time to spy on me filling up my Camelbak. He was with a weekend group I think. This was Old Orchard shelter in VA. My take was he did not know where I came from ( duh, the AT runs right past the shelter) and needed to check up on me as I might of been up to something. So I think. No hello from him, just a stance to see what I was up to. Get the same deafening silence coming into shelters where day hikers and the like congregate. A long standing impression I get on the trail is that people are short of social skills or just do not really want to be social in this venue. To each their own, but I find others are squirrely on the trail often.

  16. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDuckOnTheJunebug View Post
    I'm not sure if we're talking about the same one or not, but the last VA trail murder I remember is from 2011 and NOT in SNP:
    http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/ap...7098a7802.html
    That's the one I was thinking of. Back in 2011 and near the SNP. Well, there goes my "odd number years are safer theory" out the window :0
    Follow slogoen on Instagram.

  17. #117
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    Safest States and Provinces are Maine, New Hampshire, and Atlantic Canada. 1 per 100,000

  18. #118
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    Sorry, that was based on homicide rate, by humans. Still gotta watch out for Moose.

    Interestingly Prince Edward Island has lowest homicide rate, and no Moose.

  19. #119
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    U do not need a piece on the AT. A blade,mace,taser is all a person really needs. U dcide which 1. Mice r a problem,alot more than bears,snakes.
    Not 2 many thugs out on the AT,only mayb 1/3% or less. Have your son do more research on the subject,he'll c that u do not need a piece

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by RED-DOG View Post
    I have Thru-Hiked three times and yes i was robbed in 2006, going through central VA just about a mile south of the Troutdale/ daleville Interchange, but the robber only got 20 dollars in cash and a little bit of change. and no i do not advise anybody to carry guns on any trail especially the AT, Robberies and other crimes really don't happen that frequent,For as Animals are concerned you only need to watch out for the shelter mice they can be visious and i meen down right Mean. The other Animals Bears, Deer, Raccoons, ETC they will pretty much stay out of your way.
    well putt.ky,I ran into locals their myself.

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