Tank It Up Or Not?

[Kookork]

I have read in many threads here and other forums about drinking extra water ( I guess tank it up is the phrase) before leaving water sources yet I have not found any benefit from it anywhere in the reliable texts and in my personal experience.

To me it does not make any difference to carry some extra water in my hydration system or in my stomach. They both are extra weight I have to carry and put extra pressure on my knees and feet. If I have to choose between these two ,I will go with carrying more water than drinking extra. In a normal individual any extra water turns to urine in less than 30 minutes and does not make any real difference in hydration status of the individual.

Am I missing something? how has been your experience in real hiking situation? I like to know your take about it.

[Chuckie V]

Water intoxication/hyponatremia is a reality; you can run a search on Google to read some of the horror stories, but most these folks fail to heed their thirst/desire for water. They "tank up" on water (water that's usually devoid of sodium, which is the real problem) in hopes they'll absorb more, when in fact all they do is disturb their electrolyte/water balance and pee it out...if they're lucky.

Thirst is a pretty accurate mechanism, especially as you do more and more physical activity. If it fails you, you'll suffer a few possible effects (constipation, headache, etc), but none can kill you like messing with an extreme electrolyte imbalance.

[Lyle]

Guzzling an extra liter or so of water in a very short time doesn't do much good. Drinking more water than you think you want over the course of a long lunch or overnight at camp very definitely helps to keep you hydrated.
I recall somewhere learning that the body generally can process about 8 to 10 oz of water per hour for metabolic purposes, much more than that usually triggers you to pee it out. If really sweating, I would assume your body would hold on to some more of the water to replace the sweat.

There is a definite limit, to how fast your body will use the water. Drinking an extra half liter or so at a spring on a hot day does have psychological advantages, and it just tastes good.

[yellowsirocco]

I like to tank up in the summer. I am usually sweating so much that I don't have to worry about drinking too much. It is so much better to be pissing all the time than to go the other direction and get heat exhaustion. Tanking up is really a mechanism to ensure I drink enough. Also when I don't carry much water and I am on the low end of my food bag I can unclip my hipbelt which is really nice.

[Kookork]

Water intoxication/hyponatremia is a reality; you can run a search on Google to read some of the horror stories, but most these folks fail to heed their thirst/desire for water. They "tank up" on water (water that's usually devoid of sodium, which is the real problem) in hopes they'll absorb more, when in fact all they do is disturb their electrolyte/water balance and pee it out...if they're lucky.

Thirst is a pretty accurate mechanism, especially as you do more and more physical activity. If it fails you, you'll suffer a few possible effects (constipation, headache, etc), but none can kill you like messing with an extreme electrolyte imbalance.

Amen to this

[Kookork]

Guzzling an extra liter or so of water in a very short time doesn't do much good. Drinking more water than you think you want over the course of a long lunch or overnight at camp very definitely helps to keep you hydrated.
I recall somewhere learning that the body generally can process about 8 to 10 oz of water per hour for metabolic purposes, much more than that usually triggers you to pee it out. If really sweating, I would assume your body would hold on to some more of the water to replace the sweat.

There is a definite limit, to how fast your body will use the water. Drinking an extra half liter or so at a spring on a hot day does have psychological advantages, and it just tastes good.

If this gives you a psychological boost I am fine with it. Any advantage ( especially Psychological ) is a plus but I am not in this group. Extra water gives me extra pee and extra time to find a place to pee if the trail is a busy one.

[hikerboy57]

you are missing a little bit. metabolism. youre not carrying all the water you drank, is being sweat out along the way, same as food you are digesting is no longer the same weight as you were carrying..
overhydration can be a serious issue, almost as serious as heat exhaustion. the conventional thinking is if you wait till you're thirsty to drink, you're already dehydrated.

[Leanthree]

The benefit I have seen in my hiking is when I arrive at a water source already rather thirsty, I find it important to take a break to replenish both the water in my body and my water bottles. This is especially important when desert hiking as you may need to drink 2+ gallons of water a day under certain conditions which is near impossible to carry when there are scarce water sources

To the water intoxication point, I also consume salty snacks when drinking lots of water. Normally it is when I am already thirsty and was holding off until I had more water.

[MuddyWaters]

It is easier to carry the water in your stomach, than on your back. Your knees and feet may not know the difference, but your upper body will.

My personal view, its a waste to "camel up" with more than half a liter at a time, unless you are dehydrated to start with. Like is said, your body really wont use all of it, you will just peed it out, taking electrolytes with it.

[Chuckie V]

Muddy,
As per your last paragraph/personal view, you don't "take electrolytes with it" when you pee, unless your body is overloaded on electrolytes (and not on water alone). If you're hyper-hydrated on water alone, you pee because your kidneys are seeking a better balance of water/electrolytes, not just because you're over-hydrated and need to piss.

Excess water dilutes the body's electrolytes, whereas restricted amounts of water concentrates them, and the body's electrolytes must be maintained at very precise concentrations or all hell breaks loose. The kidneys regulate this and help maintain the proper balance of water and electrolytes by secreting an excess of either...not both at once, unless we're over-hydrated in perfect balance (which is nigh impossible).

The issue with hyponatremia is that our kidneys don't always work quickly enough in matching our intake...and so people deplete their electrolytes, which are required for so many other corporeal functions.

Dehydration is obviously a concern for long-distance hikers, but it's effects are far less risky than the opposite, whether you're chronically dehydrated or otherwise. The body is very resilient to most our mistakes, but the fastest way to screw-up is to drink too much water. Bottom line here: drink by thirst, and slowly.

"Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody..." ~Mark Twain

[Prime Time]

My father actually had his sodium level "crash" as a result of over hydration. He was out in the heat, actually roasting a lamb over an open charcoal fire, and began to feel dizzy so he kept drinking water because he thought he was dehydrated. He drank so much and peed so much he flushed to much sodium out of his body in the form of electrolytes. He collapsed and was rushed to the hospital where he almost died. Drink plenty of water, but in moderation. Drink what you have used or will use, not way more!

[Cookerhiker]

Another one here - after a dehydration episode on a Spring section hike in '05, I was determined to drink enough water for my next section hike which occurred starting on a hot & humid summer day at Bear Mountain. On the third day, after drinking lots of water, I all of a sudden hit a wall with sluggishness and nausea. I'm convinced it was hyponatremia. After taking things extremely slow and munching on salted peanuts, I was better in a few hours.

ChuckieV - I think it would be great if you could write a brief article on this subject for the Articles section or a "Sticky" in the Health & Safety Forum.

[MuddyWaters]

A 1993 case study in the journal “Nephron” showed that water intoxication can exaggerate the body’s response to peptide hormones that flush sodium and water out of the body. The flushing of fluids leads to potassium deficiency, otherwise known as hypokalemia.



Magnesium Depletion

Drinking too much water can also lead to depletion of magnesium in your body — a mineral essential to maintaining potassium levels. Magnesium can be flushed out of your body through your urine the same way as potassium. Without adequate magnesium in your body, potassium has difficulty entering into your cells where potassium storage takes place. When the potassium cannot enter your cells for storage, your kidneys will eventually process it and flush it out through your urine.

I would have a difficult time believeing I have no salts in my pee, when I pee from drinking extra water.

[Chuckie V]

I would have a difficult time believeing I have no salts in my pee, when I pee from drinking extra water.

You do, and you're right. Having reread what I wrote, I feel the fool; it came across terribly. What I was essentially trying to get at is that it's not the peeing process that causes us the harm, but rather the extreme imbalance within the body prior to peeing, if that makes sense. We don't have to pee to be at risk of hyponatremia.

[MuddyWaters]

With a lot of things, the body cant start and stop on a dime, it sorta ramps up, and ramps down. And is prone to overshoot.
Sometimew works to our advantage.

When you do high intensity activty, it continues to burn elevated calorie levels for a long time afterwards, more than an hour.

And when athletes deplete their glycogen significantly over several days, then load on simple carbs before a competition, the body stores more glycogen on the rebound than it normally would. Aids athletic performance.

One trick bodybuilders use is to eat a ton of salt for a day or two, and drink tons of water to flush it out. Then they stop . The body keeps on flushing sodium and water. Lets them reduce subcutaneus water under the skin so that muscles appear harder. Certainly not a healthy practice. Bodybuilding is more akin to being a daredevil than anything. Competitors have dropped dead on stage before.

[OzJacko]

I think the most common expression is "camel up".
Hiking in warm weather and dehydration are major issues here.
While I would always recommend having a good amount of water inside you to camel up certainly doesn't do me any good.
I just pee more and I'm sure many older people have the same problem.
You should ALWAYS carry sufficient water for your needs.
Being a gram weenie on water can kill you in hot conditions.
As well as drinking whenever you feel thirsty you should watch the colour of your urine.
Even in cool weather you can get dehydrated. The yellower your pee the more dehydrated you are. Simple really.
If your urine stream is visibly yellow you are dehydrated. If you are well hydrated, you should need to have it in a container to see any yellow. The narrow stream should look essentially clear. Don't ignore the evidence.

[Kookork]

Muddy,
As per your last paragraph/personal view, you don't "take electrolytes with it" when you pee, unless your body is overloaded on electrolytes (and not on water alone). If you're hyper-hydrated on water alone, you pee because your kidneys are seeking a better balance of water/electrolytes, not just because you're over-hydrated and need to piss.

Excess water dilutes the body's electrolytes, whereas restricted amounts of water concentrates them, and the body's electrolytes must be maintained at very precise concentrations or all hell breaks loose. The kidneys regulate this and help maintain the proper balance of water and electrolytes by secreting an excess of either...not both at once, unless we're over-hydrated in perfect balance (which is nigh impossible).

The issue with hyponatremia is that our kidneys don't always work quickly enough in matching our intake...and so people deplete their electrolytes, which are required for so many other corporeal functions.

Dehydration is obviously a concern for long-distance hikers, but it's effects are far less risky than the opposite, whether you're chronically dehydrated or otherwise. The body is very resilient to most our mistakes, but the fastest way to screw-up is to drink too much water. Bottom line here: drink by thirst, and slowly.

"Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody..." ~Mark Twain

You mentioned a very important point but I have something to add:

Kidneys are very powerful organs when it comes to removing extra water from the blood stream but they have their limitations. Kidneys can not produce urine with zero sodium( and other electrolytes) in it. there is a minimum concentration for the urinal sodium which is still considerable when it comes to consideration. So our body expends(waste) some of our sodium inadvertently to remove the excess water in our system.

[kidchill]

There's just too much disinformation in this thread and it's gonna lead to fear mongering. Tanking up, or as I call it "cameling" isn't about taking in "extra" water. You're not stopping and drinking a gallon at a time. I hit a water source, slam a liter and keep moving. Why? Because water is heavy and I hate carrying it! This doesn't mean I'm consuming "extra" water, it just means I'm not sipping as I go...I replenish and move on. Hyponatremia by definition is too little sodium per unit of volume in the extracellular space. Ions are usually measured by mEq/L and the normal serum Na concentration is 135-145. Dip below this range and you're looking at lethargy, confusion, loss of consciousness, coma, seizures, and cardiovascular collapse. In short, it's not good. Low sodium is usually the result of dilutional factors. This is why you hear the term "water intoxication." There's two main fluid compartments within the body, intracellular and extracellular. Intracellular is within the cells, extra is outside of the cells. The extracellular volume is also comprised of compartments, interstitial (between the cells) and intravascular (within vessels...this is your blood). There's also potential spacing but that's not really important here. Ions are also divided up into intra and extracellular. Wherever the ion is most concentrated is where it's considered to be. Sodium is an extracellular ion and correlates directly with chloride ions. NaCl is salt. What's happening with water intoxication related to hiking is people are out in the heat, working themselves, and sweating. Sweat isn't just water, it contains salts. You're essentially oozing salts and fluids out of your body, and then replenishing just the fluids. This dilutes the extracellular Na and leads to conduction abnormalities in the central nervous system...Hence all of the bad things happening with your brain. Unless you have dysfunctional kidneys, some kind of hypoaldosterone pathology, or you consume an insane amount of fluids rapidly, your kidneys aren't gonna spray out Na all willy-nilly. The excessive sodium loss is via sweating. If you and I are both using the same amount of water per unit time, and I camel a liter for the next hour, and you sip your liter for the next hour, it's essentially the same thing. It's still the same volume per unit time. I think you're assuming that "cameling" is drinking an insane amount of fluid in a short amount of time and your body just spills it out. That's not how it works.

"In a normal individual any extra water turns to urine in less than 30 minutes and does not make any real difference in hydration status of the individual." I have no idea where this came from. If I slam a liter of saline in a patient in 15min, they don't pee out a liter within the next 30minutes. IV fluids are going directly to the intravascular compartment, filtered directly through the kidneys...I think you'd be hard pressed to find data that supports that statement.

I'm not down playing the risk of water intoxication...I just want to make it clear that slamming a liter ever so often, versus sipping a liter in the same time isn't going to lead to acute water intoxication. Is it probably "nicer" for the body to sip fluids over time, yah, probably, but are you placing yourself at extreme risk by doing so? Probably not. Most of the stories I've heard about water intoxication or extreme dehydration were totally avoidable. You really do have to work at it to jack up your electrolytes. Also, everyone focuses on how thirsty they feel, no one ever talks about their urine. Urine should be clear yellow...not yellow, not dark yellow, definitely NOT tea colored...clear yellow! If your pee is getting dark, drink more fluids.

[CarlZ993]

I 'camel up' just before I leave camp in the morning. Usually about 1/2 L of water or so. Usually just emptying my platypus or Nalgene canteen. I eat salty foods throughout the day. Usually have some sort of electrolyte mix during the day (1/2 L). I'm aware of 'water intoxication' as well as 'heat exhaustion.' I haven't had the former but I have had the latter. At the time, I didn't even realize I was swaying while sitting down. I was close to passing out. I spent the night in the hospital for heat exhaustion. It wasn't pleasant. Had to wear a heart monitor during my stay due to the electrolyte imbalance that can cause some cardiac issues (i.e. death). After a few hours with an IV in me, I felt fine. Still had to spend the night.

[Kookork]

I think the most common expression is "camel up".
Hiking in warm weather and dehydration are major issues here.
While I would always recommend having a good amount of water inside you to camel up certainly doesn't do me any good.
I just pee more and I'm sure many older people have the same problem.
You should ALWAYS carry sufficient water for your needs.
Being a gram weenie on water can kill you in hot conditions.

As well as drinking whenever you feel thirsty you should watch the colour of your urine.
Even in cool weather you can get dehydrated. The yellower your pee the more dehydrated you are. Simple really.
If your urine stream is visibly yellow you are dehydrated. If you are well hydrated, you should need to have it in a container to see any yellow. The narrow stream should look essentially clear. Don't ignore the evidence.

Now that is a point that worth the whole thread right there