Keeping sealed food in tent vs using a bear bag?

[STINGER1]

sleep with your food. its yours. protect it. if its out of arms reach its fair game. this is of course for wilderness travel, if your at a campsite with boxes use them. No body hangs after a few hundered miles anyway.

[Coffee]

Are the black bears of a different sub-species in the Appalachians versus the bears in the Sierra Nevada? If not, are they just less sophisticated? That seems doubtful given that the population density is so much greater in the east than in the west. I would think bears in the east are more sophisticated. In the Sierras I never knew of anyone who slept with their food and hanging food was the norm except when near locations with bear boxes. Obviously the rangers frown on anyone sleeping with their food. In any case, the need to store food away from my tent has been pounded into my head enough to make it impossible for me to sleep if I haven't stashed my food somewhere: Bear box, canister, hanging, whatever. I find it really surprising how many people sleep with their food based on reading this thread.

[Drybones]

Death is an experience, .

One we're all guaranteed to have, like the Boy Scouts say, always be prepared.

[Drybones]

On one of my cycling trips I had something the size of a racoon scratch at my tent; kicked it in the head, problem solved.

I was camping in a river bottom bow hunting with some friends, the guy in the tent with me snored so loud my ears were hurting, got up and went about 50 yards down the woods to sleep, pitch dark. Dont know what it was, but coons, possums or something were scrambbling around in the dry oak leaves around me and touching my sleeping bag. They didn't keep me awake but my friends snoring still was.

[HikerMom58]

If, in a rare circumstance, an Appalachian bear were to be so desensitized to a specific campsite and have no fear of humans -- i.e., human at campsite = food and absolutely nothing else such as smell matters -- then it makes no difference what you do with your food since you are the target. However, in a less rare (but still infrequent) circumstance of a campsite frequented by a non-human eating but otherwise desensitized bear, I believe, using my example above, that I (call me Hiker A) and my food am safer than the other hiker and his food that I have described (call Him Hiker B) in a tent at a campsite. Neither Hiker A nor Hiker B has any control over a bear that believes campsite = potential source of food. I maintain that the first line of defense is to avoid emitting bear attracting odors and that Hiker A is safer than Hiker B. If a bear is driven by its incredible sense smell, then Hiker B’s actions are not logical. If an OPsak is indeed odor proof to a bear, then Hiker A’s actions are logical.

I think I understand what you saying.... The "can of worms" has been opened, with the bears, so we are all on "Plan B". We disagree on what "plan B" looks like for each of us, individually. My plan is too ditch the smells, as best I can, & try to get the "prize" far way from me.

Sometimes we have to remove the bears b/c we failed to do our job, properly. The bears learned to do "bad things" and we have no one to blame but ourselves. They have lost their fear of us in the process. So, now, we are more afraid of them.

Like John said, hunters will keep the fear of humans in them. Hikers can do a pretty good job of that as well.

When we visit wild animals in their "home" we are taking a small risk of them reacting poorly to us being there, at times. I'm taking John with me to removed all risks... LOL!!

[T.S.Kobzol]

I always cook and eat away from my tent. I always sleep with my foodbag.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 2

[swankfly]

There is a huge difference in experience vs. having experienced and I think he is just lucky. Probably camps on balds during lightning storms and never been struck by lightning either. Same guy that complains about laws like, seatbelts, helmets and drinking while driving.It would appear that after 25,000 posts, more time is spent on the Internet than in a tent, theorizing. I'll stand by the Doc.

[Drybones]

If the chances are, say, a thousand in one that a bear will enter your tent to get the food he can smell, ask yourself this: .

As Clint E. would say....do you feel lucky today punk...well...do you punk?

[Sarcasm the elf]

The problem with hanging food, is that it is NOT easy to do well, it is hard to do well. It is hard because the right trees, are hard to find.At some point 2 yrs ago, prior to the bear cannister rule, I recall the folks at MX were keeping a tally. Something like 75 foodbags had been lost to bears while hanging, 0 had been lost by hikers sleeping with food.And that was partway thru the spring.There is no doubt that a poor hang, is much worse than no hang at all.I observed people hanging foodbags basically off of bushes.

This. Probably 90% of the bear bags I've seen hung on the A.T. were put up improperly and probably only made the campsite less safe. Lots of folks like to hang their food five feet off of the ground or only a foot or two away from the trunk of the tree, or hung ten feet away from their tent, all useless for keeping critters away. If you do plan to hang your food, search for "PCT Method" on YouTube and spend some time watching the instructional video, this is one of the only ways to hang your food effectively.

[Drybones]

This would be good topic for a WB poll...anyone out there know how to set one up?

[The Ace]

I think I understand what you saying.... The "can of worms" has been opened, with the bears, so we are all on "Plan B". We disagree on what "plan B" looks like for each of us, individually. My plan is too ditch the smells, as best I can, & try to get the "prize" far way from me.

Sometimes we have to remove the bears b/c we failed to do our job, properly. The bears learned to do "bad things" and we have no one to blame but ourselves. They have lost their fear of us in the process. So, now, we are more afraid of them.

Like John said, hunters will keep the fear of humans in them. Hikers can do a pretty good job of that as well.

When we visit wild animals in their "home" we are taking a small risk of them reacting poorly to us being there, at times. I'm taking John with me to removed all risks... LOL!!

Yes, I am glad that you are trying to understand, and I am not trying to be stubborn or impolite. What I am trying to address, since the OP asked, is in regards to the conventional response to a “Premise”. This Premise is that you are at some level of risk of a bear attack while sleeping in a tent in the Appalachians because a bear can smell odors from your food. The conventional response to the Premise appears to be this: Protect yourself by eliminating the odor by hanging your food from at tree away from your tent site. This conventional response accepts the second risk that you might sacrifice the loss of your hanging food as a price to protect you from danger of attack in your tent. The conventional response also seems to ignore the risk from emitting other bear drawing smells from your tent (and therefore, if the Premise is correct, would give you a false sense of security.)
My view is that if you accept the Premise, then the better answer today – because (a) anecdotal evidence has suggested that bear behavior in the southern Appalachians has changed to recognition of hanging food bags and (b) technology has advanced – is that the conventional response to the Premise should be replaced with this: Protect yourself from both attack in your tent and your food from being stolen by minimizing any odors that would attract a bear into your tent, including the placing of your food in an odor proof sack and sleeping with it.
However, there are also those hikers that reject the Premise under the belief that the level of risk to you due to food in your possession in a tent in the Appalachians, whether it smells or not, is lower than the risk of many other unfortunate things that can happen to you while backpacking, and therefore, this whole discussion is much ado about nothing.

[The Ace]

Are the black bears of a different sub-species in the Appalachians versus the bears in the Sierra Nevada? If not, are they just less sophisticated? That seems doubtful given that the population density is so much greater in the east than in the west. I would think bears in the east are more sophisticated. In the Sierras I never knew of anyone who slept with their food and hanging food was the norm except when near locations with bear boxes. Obviously the rangers frown on anyone sleeping with their food. In any case, the need to store food away from my tent has been pounded into my head enough to make it impossible for me to sleep if I haven't stashed my food somewhere: Bear box, canister, hanging, whatever. I find it really surprising how many people sleep with their food based on reading this thread.

Behavior is learned and in certain geographical areas some black bears have learned that more aggressive behavior nets them food – sometimes due to poor practices of hikers and campers. Bad behavior by bears can also be unlearned. According to the web site mentioned by SouthMark, some bears have associated that just lifting and waving your hand means that they are going to receive a dose of bear spray and will run away. (I find that just shouting, “I am HikerMomKD and I am armed with spray” accomplishes the same.)

[Parkie Man]

[QUOTE=SouthMark;1431975]I sleep in a hammock and I sleep with my food bag under my knees. I have never had any problems and I have never had a bear confront me on the trail when I have had a pack full of smelly food. It's all about possession. Being an opportunist a black bear will go after unattended food.QUOTE]

my question is where do you keep your backpack at night. Couple years ago i was awoken in my hammck by a bear pawing at my backpack that I had hung at the foot of my hammck. all i could do was kick him and he finally left for a while, If not clipped on, the pack would be gone. just wanted to know where othes put thier backpacks at night

[SouthMark]

[QUOTE=Parkie Man;1432086]

I sleep in a hammock and I sleep with my food bag under my knees. I have never had any problems and I have never had a bear confront me on the trail when I have had a pack full of smelly food. It's all about possession. Being an opportunist a black bear will go after unattended food.QUOTE]

my question is where do you keep your backpack at night. Couple years ago i was awoken in my hammck by a bear pawing at my backpack that I had hung at the foot of my hammck. all i could do was kick him and he finally left for a while, If not clipped on, the pack would be gone. just wanted to know where othes put thier backpacks at night

I usually sleep with my empty pack under my feet. I use a 3/4 length under quilt and use my pack as insulation for my calves and feet.

[Odd Man Out]

The last time this this question came up (it comes up often), I searched the Internet to see if there was some research on this issue. I didn't find much (the "hang your food" dogma prevails from everything I read). But I did find the name of a well published bear researcher at a university so I e-mail him this question. He said that based on his research and experience, he feels that in most cases, the bear's desire to avoid you is greater than his desire to get your food (DISCLAIMER - I was clear that we were discussing east coast Black Bears). This explains why sleeping with food works for so many. But he did go on to say that there are things that could change the equation, such a bear that is very hungry or sick. Or in another case where a woman had used shampoo that was so strongly scented of fruit, the bear went after her head right through the tent wall. He probably thought he was going after a bowl of fruit and not a human head (the EMT even commented on the odor of the victim's hair). In the end, he said he would choose to hang his food, but felt the "sleep with food" strategy and the rationale behind it was not unreasonable (so much for getting a "straight answer" from the expert). I guess the best bit of advice I got from this exchange is that if you are going to sleep with your food, make sure YOU smell like a human and not a bowl of fruit.

[Rasty]

The only bear incident for me was when my pack was outside of my tent. Had a raccoon enter my tent at Boy Scout camp which was my fault for not following the no-cookie rule!

[The Ace]

The last time this this question came up (it comes up often), I searched the Internet to see if there was some research on this issue. I didn't find much (the "hang your food" dogma prevails from everything I read). But I did find the name of a well published bear researcher at a university so I e-mail him this question. He said that based on his research and experience, he feels that in most cases, the bear's desire to avoid you is greater than his desire to get your food (DISCLAIMER - I was clear that we were discussing east coast Black Bears). This explains why sleeping with food works for so many. But he did go on to say that there are things that could change the equation, such a bear that is very hungry or sick. Or in another case where a woman had used shampoo that was so strongly scented of fruit, the bear went after her head right through the tent wall. He probably thought he was going after a bowl of fruit and not a human head (the EMT even commented on the odor of the victim's hair). In the end, he said he would choose to hang his food, but felt the "sleep with food" strategy and the rationale behind it was not unreasonable (so much for getting a "straight answer" from the expert). I guess the best bit of advice I got from this exchange is that if you are going to sleep with your food, make sure YOU smell like a human and not a bowl of fruit.

Well said! However, you have also made the point that if you are NOT going to sleep with your food, then you still want to avoid smelling like a bowl of fruit. So, either way the first line of defense is to avoid emitting bear attracting odors from your tent. With the right products you can do this by odor proofing your hair and odor proofing your food.
BTW: I apologize for my font size and lack of spacing between paragraphs. Having computer problems today.

[Tinker]

A lot of factory "sealed and unopened" food is not odor proof to a bear or other critter. Even humans can smell an unopened bar of chocolate. Placing sealed and unopened food in an odor proof bag -- OPSak or similar -- solves this problem along with storing wrappers, toothpaste, flavored soap, etc.

Make sure you wash your hands before you close the food bag, but after you put the food in it so you don't get food smells on the outside of the bag - WAIT! - you will have already gotten food smells from the food on the outside of the OPsak - make sure you wash the parts of the outside of the sack that your hands have already touched.

There's only so much you can (reasonably) do.

I mostly hang my food, but one night I ran out of daylight and energy so I pitched my hammock right next to the trail over a log, and leaned my food bag against the log. I had to chase off something small during the night, but had no trouble with bears.

Shelter dwellers usually hang their food in easy reach of bears, but the bears don't touch it. They're more afraid of us than we (well, most of us ) are of them.

Now, leave your food in your tent when you're not in it and you will likely have a problem eventually.

[gizzy bear]

Hi everyone

I was wondering if it is generally safe to keep your food with you in your tent at night. I'm talking about sealed containers of food like canned meats, tuna in packets, packets of trail mix, granola bars, individually-wrapped packages of instant oatmeal, jerky, instant coffee, packages of various nuts, dried fruits, etc and even these items would be stored in zip-loc bags and then put with all of the other food into a regular food bag.

Would this be safe to keep in your tent at night?. Would I have to worry about bears, racoons, rats, mice, etc?.
.

my my my .... i think that beats the 47 item buffet bar at myrtle beach as for me...i will not sleep with my food and i WILL carry bear spray, in case... it is my prerogative

[Odd Man Out]

Well said! However, you have also made the point that if you are NOT going to sleep with your food, then you still want to avoid smelling like a bowl of fruit. So, either way the first line of defense is to avoid emitting bear attracting odors from your tent. With the right products you can do this by odor proofing your hair and odor proofing your food.
BTW: I apologize for my font size and lack of spacing between paragraphs. Having computer problems today.

I agree that in all cases you don't want to make yourself smell like food. But you don't really want to odor proof yourself. According to the theory, it is your human smell that repels the bears. I suppose it is most likely the weekend hiker rather than the long distance hiker who is most likely to use hygiene products that minimize or masks their human odors. Also, I suppose you can take steps to minimize the smell of your food, but I tend to agree with earlier posts that nothing a backpacker can carry is really odor proof when it comes to bears.