Dry Clothes?

[Lefty Red]

I'm trying to separate UL book advice (no more than one of anything - except fire starters) and what I'm reading here. I see repeated references about changing into dry clothes when reaching a shelter or entering your tent at the end of a wet day of hiking, however, I also see warnings on carrying too many clothes. So what's the deal? Should I carry an "always dry" base layer to wear after a wet day or should my dry set of clothes be something more socially appropriate or warmer?

[Tipi Walter]

I'm trying to separate UL book advice (no more than one of anything - except fire starters) and what I'm reading here. I see repeated references about changing into dry clothes when reaching a shelter or entering your tent at the end of a wet day of hiking, however, I also see warnings on carrying too many clothes. So what's the deal? Should I carry an "always dry" base layer to wear after a wet day or should my dry set of clothes be something more socially appropriate or warmer?

Warnings on carrying too many clothes??? Such is the hysteria propagated by the fast & light crowd.

There are only a few clothing items allowed to get wet. Boots, socks, baseball cap, t-shirt, shorts, rain jacket and/or rain pants, possibly a thin under-the-t-shirt long sleeve baselayer (silk or capilene or merino), one pair of gloves, and THAT'S IT. The rest of your stuff needs to stay dry at all costs. This includes merino or capilene leggings, a second pair of socks (used only for sleeping and camp), a second pair of gloves, torso midlayers (either merino or capilene), fleece jacket, down jacket or parka, balaclava and tuque (and down pants if you have them).

Thing is, to keep your warmth layers dry you need to put on the wet stuff in the morning and start moving. If it's really cold you don't have to worry about rain but only about wet snow and sweat. You can get by hiking in shorts over leggings and the rain jacket over your merino midlayers for warmth. When you sweat you stop and go to t-shirt under rain jacket and just shorts and bare legs.

The biggest problem I see with Southeast backpackers is their lack of sufficient clothing.

[bfayer]

UL by definition is compromise between weight and function.

You need to decide for yourself what is most important, saving weight or comfort in camp.

If you are the type that hikes for 16 hours and jumps into your sleeping bag to sleep, then a dry set of camp clothes is less important. However if you are like most people and hike for 8 or 10 hours and then hang out in camp for a while before you go to bed, dry camp clothes make life a lot nicer.

Take an honest look, at how you hike and then make your decision.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

[Cookerhiker]

Warnings on carrying too many clothes??? Such is the hysteria propagated by the fast & light crowd.

There are only a few clothing items allowed to get wet. Boots, socks, baseball cap, t-shirt, shorts, rain jacket and/or rain pants, possibly a thin under-the-t-shirt long sleeve baselayer (silk or capilene or merino), one pair of gloves, and THAT'S IT. The rest of your stuff needs to stay dry at all costs. This includes merino or capilene leggings, a second pair of socks (used only for sleeping and camp), a second pair of gloves, torso midlayers (either merino or capilene), fleece jacket, down jacket or parka, balaclava and tuque (and down pants if you have them).

Thing is, to keep your warmth layers dry you need to put on the wet stuff in the morning and start moving. If it's really cold you don't have to worry about rain but only about wet snow and sweat. You can get by hiking in shorts over leggings and the rain jacket over your merino midlayers for warmth. When you sweat you stop and go to t-shirt under rain jacket and just shorts and bare legs.

The biggest problem I see with Southeast backpackers is their lack of sufficient clothing.

Agree on most details. I admit to not bringing extra gloves and my winter camp pants are fleece, not down.

I bring an "extra" base layer shirt even in summer hiking unless it's only 1-2 nights.

[wookinpanub]

I only took 2 sets of clothes during my thru. One set to hike in daily and another set to sleep in/ go to town in/and generally try to look presentable. One of the toughest, most disciplined things to do is crawl out of a warm, dry sleeping bag and put on cold,wet, dirty clothes when its 35-40 degrees and raining outside. I have never gotten used to it and had to do it for what seemed like weeks at a time on my thru. The good thing is that the misery only lasts for about the first 30 minutes you're wearing them and then they usually warm up and start to dry (somewhat). The situation can be mitigated by sleeping with the wet clothes in your sleeping bag, putting them between your bag and sleeping pad, or using them as a pillow. You can run the risk of getting your bag wet, though. It's a judgement call.
In the end, I saw no need to carry more than 2 sets of clothes. It just sucks sometimes. (But, OH, the glorious feeling of being warm and dry after trudging in the cold,wet all day!!)

[Tipi Walter]

UL by definition is compromise between weight and function.

You need to decide for yourself what is most important, saving weight or comfort in camp.

If you are the type that hikes for 16 hours and jumps into your sleeping bag to sleep, then a dry set of camp clothes is less important. However if you are like most people and hike for 8 or 10 hours and then hang out in camp for a while before you go to bed, dry camp clothes make life a lot nicer.

Take an honest look, at how you hike and then make your decision.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

Not to argue, but such a plan commits you to sleeping naked which has several drawbacks. It soils the bag quicker, it's nearly impossible to get up and out of a warm bag to pee or sit up and write in your journal or do anything in the morning except get up and put on your wet clothing and move. No tea time hardly unless you enjoy doing everything wrapped in a sleeping bag.

And when you get to camp in the evening you have no choice but to remove your wet clothing and hit the sac but you can't hit the sac in wet clothing as then the bag will stop working efficiently. I never go out without a good set of warm dry clothing and some overkill winter camp gear like a down parka and down pants. But I like my comforts.

[Tinker]

I always carry two sets of long underwear shirts unless I'm section hiking in warm weather in which case I carry two sets of short sleeved synthetic t-shirts.

I also always carry a second pair of long underwear bottoms in winter.

Two to three pair of socks is what I take on hikes over a week or when I know it will be wet and cold. If you lose your gloves/mittens it's nice to have that extra dry pair.

[Lyle]

My advice for MINIMUM, summer time hike in a temperate climate:

Daytime/hiking have available:

One pair of light shorts (see below, could be zip-offs or nylon runners)
Wicking t-shirt
Wicking long-sleve shirt
Two pair of socks to alternate
Some type of leg covering [could be light long-john bottoms (cheapy K-mart poly pro are fine) or zip off shorts]
brimmed hat
some type of rain gear (at least the tops)

Insulating (for breaks and around camp); rarely, if ever, hike in these:

Fleece or light puffy jacket or vest, I prefer the latter. If you stick with synthetic, you CAN hike in it if necessary but would be rare to be necessary.
Knit hat

Camp:
always dry (never hike in these), lightweight longjohn set (silk is a couple ounces and packs tiny)

Others will say not all these are necessary - others are often uncomfortable, sometimes dangerously so.

[Grampie]

If you start a AT thru in Jan., Feb., March and even early April take the extra cloths to wear after you get out of your hiking stuff. After hiking in the wet and cold it's so nice to have warm & dry clothing to chang into to sleep in. Once the weather warmes up you can eliminate some of the heavier stuff but still keep a pair of light weight shorts and shirt to sleep in. Unfortunately you will still have to change into damp hiking cloths again in the morning. I will long remember those mornings of getting out of a warm sleeping bag and into damp and dirty hiking cloths to start my day.

[Tipi Walter]

If you start a AT thru in Jan., Feb., March and even early April take the extra cloths to wear after you get out of your hiking stuff. After hiking in the wet and cold it's so nice to have warm & dry clothing to chang into to sleep in. Once the weather warmes up you can eliminate some of the heavier stuff but still keep a pair of light weight shorts and shirt to sleep in. Unfortunately you will still have to change into damp hiking cloths again in the morning. I will long remember those mornings of getting out of a warm sleeping bag and into damp and dirty hiking cloths to start my day.

Wookinpanub and Grampie have it right. You never hear of anyone practicing this at home because it sucks so bad. So you're at home---get out of bed, step out on the back porch in your underwear where your wet clothing is hanging, put on the clothing and then walk around the house 20 times. Oh, and make sure your boots are outside and frozen solid. See you on the trail.

[bfayer]

Not to argue, but such a plan commits you to sleeping naked which has several drawbacks. It soils the bag quicker, it's nearly impossible to get up and out of a warm bag to pee or sit up and write in your journal or do anything in the morning except get up and put on your wet clothing and move. No tea time hardly unless you enjoy doing everything wrapped in a sleeping bag.

And when you get to camp in the evening you have no choice but to remove your wet clothing and hit the sac but you can't hit the sac in wet clothing as then the bag will stop working efficiently. I never go out without a good set of warm dry clothing and some overkill winter camp gear like a down parka and down pants. But I like my comforts.

No argument from me

The OP specifically referenced UL. The UL mentality states that all the comfort issues you listed are secondary to weight. I personally do not subscribe to the UL mantra, but in mild to moderate weather it is a workable option.

I believe in going as light as possible and still be reasonably comfortable in camp. I have been known to carry both a tent and hammock because in the middle of summer I quit hiking hours before sunset (I guess I'm just old and lazy).

I know UL hikers that say "just sleep in your wet clothes, they will dry". I can't imagine doing that, but I guess it works for them.

Your post TW highlights exactly what I was trying to say; your gear needs to match your hiking style. Most people I know that jumped on the UL bandwagon after reading a book jumped off soon after, but learned something along the way, and that something is that being uncomfortable sucks after awhile.

To summarize my philosophy, adopt gear that matches your hiking style, not the other way around. You TW are the quintessential living example of that philosophy

[1azarus]

It requires skill and discipline, and obsession, too, I suppose, to not carry extra clothing. I just finished a four day hike in MA/NY/CT and didn't have a single item of "extra" clothing... had a bit of rain, plenty of snow on the ground, sub 15 degree night (one, anyway...) and flurries off and on all the time. I woke up every morning with every item of my gear perfectly dry, except for my minimus hiking shoes, which are so light I defrosted them by putting them under my jacket for a few minutes before putting them on. I'd share my gear list -- but it is more than just the gear -- it is very careful moisture management all the time. I think it is dangerous to start out without extra clothing -- but I think it is something to work toward if you enjoy carrying a light pack. My winter gear, including microspikes and cooking stuff/fuel, but excluded water and food, was pretty much at 12 pounds...

[Cookerhiker]

On the subject of putting wet clothes back on in the morning, sure it's manifestly unpleasant at first, but I find that it only takes 5 minutes for my body to adjust.

Something I did for the first time recently: I had to pee in the middle of the night in a steady rain. I took my clothes off and went out naked on the theory that my body would dry faster than if I had gotten my dry clothes wet from the rain. Back in the tent, I lay on top of the sleeping bag for a bit, used my bandana to dry part of the body, put the dry clothes back on, back in the sleeping bag, slept soundly.

[Cookerhiker]

It requires skill and discipline, and obsession, too, I suppose, to not carry extra clothing. I just finished a four day hike in MA/NY/CT and didn't have a single item of "extra" clothing... had a bit of rain, plenty of snow on the ground, sub 15 degree night (one, anyway...) and flurries off and on all the time. I woke up every morning with every item of my gear perfectly dry, except for my minimus hiking shoes, which are so light I defrosted them by putting them under my jacket for a few minutes before putting them on. I'd share my gear list -- but it is more than just the gear -- it is very careful moisture management all the time. I think it is dangerous to start out without extra clothing -- but I think it is something to work toward if you enjoy carrying a light pack. My winter gear, including microspikes and cooking stuff/fuel, but excluded water and food, was pretty much at 12 pounds...

Not hypothetical but an entirely realistic scenario: how would things have worked if you had more than a "bit" of rain e.g. an all-day 35 degree soaker?

[BirdBrain]

My advice for MINIMUM, summer time hike in a temperate climate:

Daytime/hiking have available:

One pair of light shorts (see below, could be zip-offs or nylon runners)
Wicking t-shirt
Wicking long-sleve shirt
Two pair of socks to alternate
Some type of leg covering [could be light long-john bottoms (cheapy K-mart poly pro are fine) or zip off shorts]
brimmed hat
some type of rain gear (at least the tops)

Insulating (for breaks and around camp); rarely, if ever, hike in these:

Fleece or light puffy jacket or vest, I prefer the latter. If you stick with synthetic, you CAN hike in it if necessary but would be rare to be necessary.
Knit hat

Camp:
always dry (never hike in these), lightweight longjohn set (silk is a couple ounces and packs tiny)

Others will say not all these are necessary - others are often uncomfortable, sometimes dangerously so.

Copy, paste, print. Great info. Thank you.

[Lefty Red]

Just to be clear - I'm not wed to UL at the prospect of being miserable for extended periods of time. I do this for fun after all. Having said that, I'm not interested in carrying unnecessary or heavier stuff than I need. I do this for fun after all. I'm also relatively new to non-military backpacking and that not so fun experience is a couple of decades behind me.

[Tipi Walter]

On the subject of putting wet clothes back on in the morning, sure it's manifestly unpleasant at first, but I find that it only takes 5 minutes for my body to adjust.

Something I did for the first time recently: I had to pee in the middle of the night in a steady rain. I took my clothes off and went out naked on the theory that my body would dry faster than if I had gotten my dry clothes wet from the rain. Back in the tent, I lay on top of the sleeping bag for a bit, used my bandana to dry part of the body, put the dry clothes back on, back in the sleeping bag, slept soundly.

I've done the Turtlehead Run in the fully naked state whereby you go out in the rain naked and dig a cathole and birth the all-important but soon buried turtlehead into the dirt and hurry back to the tent. Summer fun.

[SouthMark]

I am definitely a member of the light crowd (but not the fast crowd). I have been pretty much what some call an "ultra-lighter" since around 1982. My base weight ranges form around 6 lbs to 12 lbs depending upon the trip, time of year, etc. I always have three clothes systems, hiking clothes, carried clothes, and worn/carried clothes. Of course these would change depending upon the season and weather conditions. I always have a dry set of base layers to sleep in, light weight silk, mostly to keep my quilt clean. I am old and cold natured and I do not sacrifice weight and comfort for weight savings. I make up my weight savings in other areas, shelter, pack, kitchen, etc. but I do try and carefully balance my clothing weight with comfort and safety. I have carried too much clothing more times than I have carried too little.

[Snowleopard]

...
The biggest problem I see with Southeast backpackers is their lack of sufficient clothing.

... it is more than just the gear -- it is very careful moisture management all the time. I think it is dangerous to start out without extra clothing -- but I think it is something to work toward if you enjoy carrying a light pack.

It takes a lot of experience to learn to manage your layers and exertion levels so you're warm enough but don't overheat and sweat in winter. In my mind this is the most important skill for winter hiking. Judging by the questions asked on WB lots of hikers have no experience at this. Until you learn how to do this for the full range of conditions you might face, including the extremes, you have to carry extra clothing.

My philosophy is way on the UL side, but the clothing I carry on long cold winter day hikes is almost what TipiWalter carries (I leave off extra base layers and down pants) and for winter camping I'd carry the same or more clothing than he does.

I like to remind people that when hiking above treeline in NH you need to carry only a little less in summer (no extreme down parka or down pants). You want to survive Cookerhiker's 'an all-day 35 degree soaker' in 60mph winds.

[SouthMark]

This is my planned clothing for my August JMT hike and pretty much the same for most of my three season trips:

CLOTHING CARRIED
Black Rock Down Beanie
Flamethrower Down Socks
Smartwool Toe Socks
Smartwool Long Bottoms
Smartwool LS Top
Smartwool Buff
Montbell Ultralight Down Jacket
Tyvek Rain/Wind Pants
New 10D Packa Rain Top/Pack Cover
Mountain Hardwear Powerstretch Gloves
ULA Rain Mitts
Headnet


CLOTHING WORN
Nylon Running Shorts
Silk LS Top
DriFit SS Tee
Smartwool Toe Socks
Tilly Hat
Bandana
Lone Peak Shoes

Grand Total Worn & Carried = 3.09 lbs