*sigh*Originally Posted by Tree Nerd
You're so determined to kill mice that you're willing to interrupt your sleep several times over the course of a night?
"We can no longer live as rats. We know too much." -- Nicodemus
..and everyone elses. Dont even think about it. Besides, carrying around a bloody stained mouse trap and disposing of bloody little mice probably is possibly an exposure route to hantavirus, which is only like 40% fatal.
^I just hit my invisible "like" button.
"We can no longer live as rats. We know too much." -- Nicodemus
Hantavirus? I worry more about meteor strikes.
No cases of hantavirus east of the Mississippi that I know of. Only a handful west of the Mississippi.
One of the first cases of hantavirus in the US was an AT hiker around 1993:
Emerging Infectious Diseases Hantavirus Pulmonary Syndrome -- Virginia, 1993
Hantavirus pulmonary syndrome (HPS) was first recognized in June 1993 as a result of the investigation of a cluster of fatal cases of adult respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS) in the southwestern United States (1). During that month, a 61-year-old man was admitted to a hospital in southern Pennsylvania with ARDS; recent testing of all available specimens from this patient has confirmed the diagnosis of HPS. This report summarizes the case investigation.
When hospitalized on June 28, 1993, the man reported a 4-day history of fever, chills, headache, myalgia, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. After admission, he became hypotensive and increasingly short of breath and was transferred to a tertiary-care medical center. Laboratory findings included leukocytosis (white blood cell count 25,300/mm3), hemoconcentration (hemoglobin of 20.0 g/L), thrombocytopenia (platelet count 65,000/mm3), and elevated blood urea nitrogen, creatinine (peak value 6.8 ug/dL), prothrombin time, activated partial thromboplastin time, aspartate aminotransferase (peak value 8500 U/L), lactic dehydrogenase, and lipase levels. A chest radiograph indicated bilateral diffuse infiltrates. During his prolonged hospital course, he required respiratory and circulatory support and hemodialysis. He was discharged on July 22, 1993.
An enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay with heterologous antigens performed on serum samples obtained on July 2 and July 20 were highly suspect for hantavirus antibodies. Subsequent retesting of these samples, as well as of an additional sample obtained in September 1994, with Sin Nombre virus (SNV) antigens confirmed the diagnosis of HPS.
In April 1993, the patient had started hiking on the Appalachian Trail northbound from Georgia through North Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, and West Virginia. From May 13 through June 20, he hiked primarily along the Appalachian Trail in Virginia and reported evidence of mice, including excreta and rodent traps in shelters and bunkhouses.
To further characterize the prevalence of hantavirus in local rodent populations, the offices of Epidemiology and Environmental Health of the Virginia Department of Health, local health departments, the National Park Service, and CDC are conducting rodent trapping. Reported by: BH Hamory, MD, C Zwillich, MD, T Bollard, MD, JO Ballard, MD, The Milton S Hershey Medical Center, Hershey; M Connor, DO, Chambersberg Hospital, Chambersberg; P Lurie, MD, M Moll, MD, J Rankin, DVM, State Epidemiologist, Pennsylvania Dept of Health. C Smith, MD, New River Health District, Radford; S Jenkins, VMD, E Barrett, DMD, GB Miller, Jr, MD, State Epidemiologist, Virginia Dept of Health. W Frampton, DVM, S Lanser MPH, CR Nichols, MPA, State Epidemiologist, Utah Dept of Health. DT King, Harpers Ferry, West Virginia; A Kingsbury, MS, Washington, DC, National Park Service, US Dept of the Interior. Special Pathogens Br, Div of Viral and Rickettsial Diseases, National Center for Infectious Diseases, CDC.
Editorial Note
Editorial Note: This report describes the first known case of HPS in the mid-Atlantic states. The patient's infection probably was acquired along the Appalachian Trail in Virginia, an area within the range of habitation of the primary rodent reservoir of SNV, Peromyscus maniculatus (deer mouse). The prodromal illness and respiratory failure are consistent with HPS (2); the renal involvement characteristic of Eurasian hemorrhagic fever with renal syndrome (HFRS) has not been typical of HPS. Moderate elevations ( greater than 2.5 ug/dL) in serum creatinine have occurred in only 10% of fatal cases of HPS; prominent renal involvement, such as that which occurred in this patient, has been documented only in two cases from the southeastern United States, both of which are believed to have been associated with hantaviruses other than SNV (provisionally named Black Creek Canal virus and Bayou virus) (3,4). Thus, the marked liver transaminase elevation in this patient has not been a prominent feature in other cases of HPS, although the prominent liver dysfunction has occurred with HFRS (5,6). However, because both renal and hepatic dysfunction can be caused by antecedent hypotension and other factors, additional case investigation is ongoing to clarify the relevance of these findings.
Since June 1993, when HPS was first recognized in the United States, 98 cases have been identified in 21 states. The mean age of case-patients has been 35.1 years (range: 12-69 years), and the case-fatality rate is 52%; 52 (54%) cases have occurred in males. The earliest retrospectively identified case, inferred by a history of a compatible illness and elevated IgG titers detected for SNV, occurred in a 38-year-old man in Utah in 1959.
Last edited by MuddyWaters; 04-06-2013 at 22:30.
Note also the words from WebMD:
"Deer mice carry the Sin Nombre strain of hantavirus. Cotton rats and rice rats carry hantavirus in the Southeast, while white-footed mice carry hantavirus in the Northeast. [...] Most people get it by inhaling dust contaminated by rodent droppings or by touching rodent urine and then touching their mouth, eyes, or nose. Getting infected is easier than it might seem. For example, you might go into your garage and scare off some mice nesting in an old cardboard box. The frightened mice leave behind a trail of urine. You pick up the mess they've left behind. You sweep up the droppings. The air fills with dust, which you breathe into your lungs."
And how much fecal matter/urine is in the shelters?
"We can no longer live as rats. We know too much." -- Nicodemus
Almost as common a meteor strikes.
Are you serious? The vast majority of the folks infected by hantavirus have been poor Indians living in mouse infested hovels. I wasn't a shelter dweller but I didn't see any mouse turds or urine. I ain't 'xactly fastidious, but even I wouldn't dip my finger in mouse pee and then lick it.
^It's rather hard to see mouse turds... And when mice pee, they release small drops. People who see fecal matter are the ones looking for it, and the only way to see fresh mouse urine is to have a mouse pee on you. Viral infested matter dries up, breaks into dust, and blows around. Assuming that you only risk infection when you're in a "mouse infested" location fails to account for accumulation over time. No one has said that sleeping in a shelter means one will inevitably become infected with hantavirus. But it's something of a mistake to assume that the only people who get infected are "poor Indians in... hovels".
And I don't want to steal the thread even more by asking how "poor" and "hovel" are to be defined!
"We can no longer live as rats. We know too much." -- Nicodemus
Yes its rare, to come down with it.
That does not mean its rare to be exposed to it.
I figure it must be a lot like West Nile, etc (pure speculation, admittedly). Generally, it doesnt affect the vast majority of the people with a strong immune system. But when someone is succeptible for whatever reason, its bad. In this case, really, really bad. Since its obviously out there, there isnt much other explanation for lack of cases of it.
I would personally rate it as a higher worry than being attacked by a bear, but lower than falling off a cliff.
Just the same, I would avoid handling freshly dead rodents and their bodily fluids, if possible.
Last edited by MuddyWaters; 04-06-2013 at 23:46.
I think they call 'em jakals, dirt floor made of sticks. Take a trip out west. In a country of 300,000,000 souls or so a few dozen have come down with it, almost all west of the Mississippi, all most all on Indian Reservation. You are probably safe unless you lick your fingers.
You will see more bear than shelter mice.
Not me. I see way more mice than bears.
The folks in Yosemite last yr also werent indians living in the dirt, they were tourists staying in park cabins. 8 contracted, 3 died.
more up to date cases in the US by state
Hantavirus3.jpg
Hang your food on a mouse trapeze and unzip/open every possible pocket on your pack and jacket. The lovely little rodents will take a stroll around if they feel like it, if you give them an easy entrance into your pack/pockets then they are much less likely to chew a new entrance for themselves. Also, you never know what the mice will decide to go after, I've actually stayed in a shelter where the little bastards chewed up the corner of a fellow hikers paperback book in the middle of the night, presumably to use as nesting material.
As others have said, drop the mousetrap idea. There are far too many of them to deal with, if you see two mice during the night, just assume that there were probably a couple dozen that you didn't see. Killing one or two of them is unnecessary and will just open up food and space for more of them to breed.
With regards to the hantavirus discussion, yes it technically exists, but it kills less than 15 people annually (according to the Internet), in the USA, and most of those cases are in the western part of the country. Statistically speaking, anything that causes 15 deaths in a population of 300,000,000 people has such a low probability of occurring that it shouldn't cause you any concern. By contrast there are ~30,000 motor vehicle fatalities in the USA annually, so you are roughly 2000 times more likely to be killed by a car accident than by hantavirus.
Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.
load a malarky
Really. I saw six bear and one mouse. The mouse was something called a white footed mouse.
I saw about 15 bears and a couple of mice and I stayed in a few shelters.
I'm just going to toss them a pack of ramen. I can deal with the sound of them fiddling with the wrapper all night. I sleep heavy, anyways.
8) If you leave some (unused) TP out, they will go there instead because they use it for bedding and value warmth over food. I have no real proof this works but I have seen TP all chewed up in the AM. Just saying
Yep, TP is highly sought after by shelter mice. The only material that I have found more highly prized.... is the synthetic towel material used as a hankerchief , wash towel or cooking mitt. The holy grail of mice for nesting material !!
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