Scout Graffiti:Split from Thruhiker Vandalism

[HikerMom58]

Anybody have a picture of the Russell Field Shelter?

[FarmerChef]

Boy that sure looks pretty. I can't spot any graffiti in there at all. So much for my object lesson That said, there are plenty of other shelters with lots of graffiti to choose from. I might even have a picture or two of that.

[Feral Bill]

Talk about thread drift! Now we got homophobic little monkeys.

Must not be bonobos

[perdidochas]

Thank you, when is that from?

[gsingjane]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cause a problem. I guess I just meant to call the kids something mischievous rather than implying they were hardened criminals.

I'm surprised that nobody else seems bothered or vexed by this kind of material. I actually discourage the kids from looking at the registers now, whereas in years past they enjoyed looking at them. No more though!

[perdidochas]

Just a note: I got a response from the District Executive. He said it was dealt with about a month ago and they went to the shelter and sanded it off.

[FarmerChef]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cause a problem. I guess I just meant to call the kids something mischievous rather than implying they were hardened criminals.

I'm surprised that nobody else seems bothered or vexed by this kind of material. I actually discourage the kids from looking at the registers now, whereas in years past they enjoyed looking at them. No more though!

I'm right there with you. More than once I've had my eldest daughter (usually first to the register) giggle and then call me over to see something in the register. Sigh. It's a free country and the register doesn't really have rules against hand-drawn pictures. But I sure wouldn't mind if folks were a tad more thoughtful about the potential eyes that would see their "art."

And to tie this back into Scouts and graffiti - I don't consider that "graffiti" in the register but would selectively read from it to my scouts rather than let them just wander through the pages.

[jeffmeh]

Must not be bonobos

Heh heh heh.

[DugK]

Probably something that those in here that see it as a lesson will do that with thier kids.

Some may want to show the photo to the troop, and ask.."what do you think", another teaching opportunity.

That is what I did Monday. We talked about the negative affects of such actions that reflect negatively on the BSA. It was a very valuable learning experience. Surprisingly, I started out by showing the picture and asked for honesty, of who would think it is ok to "tag" a shelter or another place. Out of 25 kids I think 8 said they would do it. We talked about it and they all basically said that "tagging" is everywhere from their school desk to bathroom walls to the mall and to park benches, even in a police station when we visited, I think they had not been taught LNT to proper level. They know not to disturb the earth, how and where to clean and dump gray water, make cat holes, damage trees, build fires, etc but they really never considered "tagging" as LNT since it was already on a "tagged" object and it did not mess with the earth. They had never been taught that LNT to its fullest extent. I guess I have been guilty of not teaching them better. So, as a troop we are now learning LNT to the highest degree and now these scouts know better. You can't fault the kids for something they have not been taught.

[MDSection12]

That is what I did Monday. We talked about the negative affects of such actions that reflect negatively on the BSA. It was a very valuable learning experience. Surprisingly, I started out by showing the picture and asked for honesty, of who would think it is ok to "tag" a shelter or another place. Out of 25 kids I think 8 said they would do it. We talked about it and they all basically said that "tagging" is everywhere from their school desk to bathroom walls to the mall and to park benches, even in a police station when we visited, I think they had not been taught LNT to proper level. They know not to disturb the earth, how and where to clean and dump gray water, make cat holes, damage trees, build fires, etc but they really never considered "tagging" as LNT since it was already on a "tagged" object and it did not mess with the earth. They had never been taught that LNT to its fullest extent. I guess I have been guilty of not teaching them better. So, as a troop we are now learning LNT to the highest degree and now these scouts know better. You can't fault the kids for something they have not been taught.

Afterall, the shelter builders did not practice LNT either.

Kidding of course, but I could see that argument from a youngster. I think the simplest way to explain it would be to say that the shelter builders specifically put a register in there for that purpose, so they obviously would not appreciate people 'signing in' elsewhere... It does kind of become a little convaluted when discussing LNT in terms of the AT. Many of the common practices of AT hikers are technically not LNT approved. For me LNT is a mindset, not a set of rules. I just want to make sure that the next guy can enjoy the area, even if his idea of enjoyment is different than mine, as much as I was able to. I'm lucky to get to be out there, I'd like to make sure others have the same good fortune. Simple.

[perdidochas]

Just an FYI, here is the exact email I got from one of the leaders:

The issue was dealt with over 4 weeks ago. It has been removed and scouts dealt with. The boys involved sanded the writing off at their discretion, not driven by a pressure from the park or others but in an effort to do the right thing. This was done prior to getting the email from BSA.


In a later email, he added that it took a day and a half of hiking to remedy this.

[Train Wreck]

Just an FYI, here is the exact email I got from one of the leaders:

The issue was dealt with over 4 weeks ago. It has been removed and scouts dealt with. The boys involved sanded the writing off at their discretion, not driven by a pressure from the park or others but in an effort to do the right thing. This was done prior to getting the email from BSA.


In a later email, he added that it took a day and a half of hiking to remedy this.

That is the best ending this thread could possibly have!

[Another Kevin]

Who has the can of troll-b-gone?

My apologies for drifting the thread and leaving the door open for the troll.

[mfleming]

As unfortunate an incident this was, lets remember that we, as adults should try to make this a positive and educational experience for the kids involved. Lets put aside the vitriol and focus on what we might say if these were our kids. I think a service project to clean up an adopted shelter would be great for these scouts. Who here is willing to help fund some materials etc. How about those who are local to this Troop to help too? Now some of you have a chance to make a difference in the lives of these kids who can range in age from 11 to 18.

There has been way too much vinegar. How about a little honey?

[Another Kevin]

There has been way too much vinegar. How about a little honey?

Yeah. According to the post above, the kids apparently took it on themselves to clean it up, which involved a day-and-a-half of hiking. All's well that ends well.

[WingedMonkey]

In a later email, he added that it took a day and a half of hiking to remedy this.

Now they have two different hikes in GSMNP that they will remember and share into adulthood.

[HikerMom58]

Thank you, when is that from?

It had the date of January 2012.... Your welcome!

[HikerMom58]

That is the best ending this thread could possibly have!

I'm tellin ya... these tagging and graffiti threads are enjoying good endings!! We are 2 and 0!!!

[bfayer]

I'm tellin ya... these tagging and graffiti threads are enjoying good endings!! We are 2 and 0!!!

Always the optimist HMKD

[IrishBASTARD]

The shelter "rifle" had CARVED his trail name into, was brand new, not one mark there, as I talked to a local, he positioned it right where you couldn't miss it, right at eye level. Truly sickening was this man and his son, although didn't help put it up, had to explain to his grandson why someone would ruin something new, let alone not being owned by "rifle". Regardless he posted the picture to brag, nothing more or less, only WHEN he was in hot water, did he retract his comments, and his Bible thumping proved right, do onto others as they would have done onto you, and he was forced off trail. Have no empathy for anyone, sharpie knife or any damage, these shelters were built, both for pleasure but also memory of former hikers, and or loved ones who enjoyed the area or trails around them. Think anyone who does damage, should be called out as a loser, and have the ATC fine them, as its their property, and would have to repair, let alone replace said abuse if it got too far.

One of the problems with persistent graffiti is that once it hits a critical mass, some people stupidly see it as socially acceptable to add to it (I think the phenomenon is called Broken Window Theory in criminology). I highly doubt that a troop of scouts would have signed their name in a pristine shelter that was free of vandalism.

Another example was 2013 hiker "rifle" and his boneheaded decision to carve his name in a shelter that was already full of "tags.". He was solo hiking early in the year and saw so many names carved in the shelters along the way that he actually thought it was an innocent tradition and even went so far as to post a photo of it on trailjournals. To his credit he sincerely apologized when he realized how dumb his actions were.