6/12/13 Armed drunk at Rocky Mountain shelters in PA

[Sarcasm the elf]

First off thank you for the response, though I don't agree with your conclusions I do agree with the spirit of what you have said.

I think the difference is perspective.

Most of the examples of the peaceful experiences you've listed from your time abroad are things that I routinely have experienced throughout my life in the US.

I am now 32 and have lived in here my whole life. During my lifetime the violent crime rate in this country has dropped 30% - 50%, the murder rate has dropped by the same percentage. At the same time the number of news reports covering violent crime has increased by 3000%*

Globally speaking, we live in the single most peaceful and most prosperous time in the history of our species.** Sadly most of us will never understand that, positive news never sells.

My real life experiences run contrary to the constant stream of fearmongering stores we fed by pop culture.

I have lived in both peaceful suburban towns and not so great areas, I also spent a year living in hells kitchen in Manhattan (at the time one of the supposedly bad areas). I have had friends and neighbors of nearly every nationality on earth. I was never scared to walk around any of the places I've lived. Many of these friends and neighbors have also been gun owners, many haven't, they've all been peaceful law abiding US citizens (or residents). Usually the only reason I lock my front door is to stop people from accidently letting my cats escape.

A couple of wreckless drunks at an A.T. shelter isn't going to change my view of the world or make me live in fear.




*Apologies for not having sources immediately available to cite, however these are the numbers that were taught in my college criminology class and are consistant with subsequent reports I have read.

** http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-20208505

Maybe so in CT. Come to the west or south sides of Chicago and tell me how peaceful things are.

The only statistics I have quoted are at the global and national level.

We clearly will have more wars, and there will always be violent areas, but when it comes to the big picture, we are quantifiably doing quite well.

The sad thing is how many of you seem to be rooting against humanity. I'll stay optimistic.

[Blue Mountain Edward]

I seen people carrying pistols 3 times on the AT in Pennsylvania. Once it was a man who was with Boy scouts. Another time it was 2 off duty law enforcement types. They carried there firearms in a holster on there belt. This nut at the Rocky Mountain shelters carried his in his pants or backpack. He claimed to have a permit to carry concealed weapons but he was a liar and was telling us about his bad criminal record. I tried to talk to him the next morning about how drunk people should not play with guns. And can he take the 4 40 ounce bottles and pepsi cans with him when he leaves. He then smashed a 40 ounce bottle in the fire ring and said glass will burn. Justin and his stepson were gonna go hunting the next morning with the BB rifle. They were seen carrying a firearm or one of the other 3 hikers reported him. I did not report him though I disliked him. The nut was throwing lighters and a aerasol can of Axe body spray in the fire. It was easy for the police to remove him with the road a half mile from the shelter.

[Pedaling Fool]

I think the majority of people would call BS on that article by Steven Pinker, especially in a post 9/11 world.

However, I completely agree with him and I've been meaning to get his book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bet..._of_Our_Nature

But some are still stuck in the dark ages, especially when sports are involved http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...anhao/2495199/


Excerpt:

SAO PAULO (AP) — Police say enraged spectators invaded a football field, stoned the referee to death and quartered his body after he stabbed a player to death.
The Public Safety Department of the state of Maranhao says in a statement that it all started when referee Otavio da Silva expelled player Josenir Abreu from a game last weekend. The two got into a fist fight, then Silva took out a knife and stabbed Abreu, who died on his way to the hospital.


///////////////////



Local news media say the spectators also decapitated Silva and stuck his head on a stake in the middle of the field.







P.S. Ought to be an interesting 2016 summer olympics

[jeffmeh]

First off thank you for the response, though I don't agree with your conclusions I do agree with the spirit of what you have said.

I think the difference is perspective.

Most of the examples of the peaceful experiences you've listed from your time abroad are things that I routinely have experienced throughout my life in the US.

I am now 32 and have lived in here my whole life. During my lifetime the violent crime rate in this country has dropped 30% - 50%, the murder rate has dropped by the same percentage. At the same time the number of news reports covering violent crime has increased by 3000%*

Globally speaking, we live in the single most peaceful and most prosperous time in the history of our species.** Sadly most of us will never understand that, positive news never sells.

My real life experiences run contrary to the constant stream of fearmongering stores we fed by pop culture.

I have lived in both peaceful suburban towns and not so great areas, I also spent a year living in hells kitchen in Manhattan (at the time one of the supposedly bad areas). I have had friends and neighbors of nearly every nationality on earth. I was never scared to walk around any of the places I've lived. Many of these friends and neighbors have also been gun owners, many haven't, they've all been peaceful law abiding US citizens (or residents). Usually the only reason I lock my front door is to stop people from accidently letting my cats escape.

A couple of wreckless drunks at an A.T. shelter isn't going to change my view of the world or make me live in fear.




*Apologies for not having sources immediately available to cite, however these are the numbers that were taught in my college criminology class and are consistant with subsequent reports I have read.

** http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-20208505

Absolutely right, and well-stated. It is unfortunate that most people cannot discern the "signal" of real risk among the "noise" of instantaneous media accounts of the most horrible acts around the globe.

[lemon b]

Sounds like someone needs AA. Drunks do that kinda rude stuff all the time. Just be thankful no one was trying to sleep once the pre hangover snoring started.

[tophatxj]

Sorry if you think it was a troll post.
I just came from traveling in a country with virtually no crime.
I had lunch one day with 2 policeman.
I commented to them that I thought they had one of the easiest jobs I ever saw because: people left their keys in their motorcycles, most everyone was friendly to me (an obvious foriegner), and religion seemed indifferent.
He replied that he is Christian, yet is partner (sitting beside him) was Muslim, yet they live as one.
He also said they have no guns allowed because I told him in Thailand there is a lot of crime and shootings.
It really got me thinking and although I have 3 brothers, with over 40 guns between them, that here were people living in peace without them and seemed to have more freedoms than I have in the USA.
Then I read this thread and this would have scared the crap out of me if I had been there.
I walked around Borneo late at night with no fear of anybody harming me.
I believe we have a sick society back there in PA and I won't get into the politics behind it.
But something needs to be done to make America safe again!

You keep wishing for a crime free paradise, and I'll keep carrying a gun.

[Sunwolf]

I've decided to carry a small plastic water pistol on my thru hike. Either an orange (hunter safety) or a green (camoflage) one. I'll probably keep it only half full of water to save weight. I figure it'll come in handy if I get lost and run out of water.

[PaBear]

What I have to wonder is not why you didn't report him the next day, but why nobody reported him THAT night. Instead he was allowed to sit and endanger everyone there all night.

[RCBear]

Someone shoulda field stripped his weapons and tossed his rounds and machete while he was in a booze induced stupor. Sucks to try and put stuff back together with a raging hangover.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 2 using Tapatalk 2

[IrishBASTARD]

Sure there is. Being around a drunk who is messing around with loaded weapons-- whether you are sober yourself or not.Anyone surprised that story took place in PA?

SADLY THIS HAPPENED IN ANY STATE, AND COULD HAPPEN IN PA WV GA ME MA CT NY NJ VT NC TN NH VA MD, it happens it HAPPENS anywhere on trail. MY ISSUE is this, why didn't one of the four hikers call and report him then? Had issue with some mental case before, and I hiked up and away from him, called the police they came up and arrested him. This reminds me of the beauty spot incident last year, thank god those hikers were trained in take down tactics, if you fear text someone, you're location and the info, have them call the police if afraid. BME YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED, RATHER THEN DOING A DAMNED THING, YOU ASK QUESTIONS. A Pennsylvanian you might be, a true hiker you aren't, a true hiker would help

[yaduck9]

There was bad weather forecast for the night, thunderstorms and chance for a tornado. I set my tent up between the shelters in case the weather got to windy. This guy Justin and his stepson were in the one shelter. His wife came up later and spent the night. Well Justin was well armed with a machete, sheath knife, pocket knife, BB rifle and a .45 pistol. Justin was sharing his food and drinks with us real backpackers. After drinking 3 40 ounce beers at around 1 am he starts shooting the pistol out of the shelter. Well all 4 of us backpackers were scared, nobody walked over to the shelter that family was in to see what was going on. Justin was planning on staying in the shelter 4 days. I heard the next day police and a park ranger removed them from the trail. Anyone know if he was arrested and charged with any crimes?

I googled for this incident, but I have not found anything.............

Has anyone else, found anything?

Just curious

[Armywife]

This thread makes me wonder; didn't anyone have a cell phone? According to my reading the AT is practically all on towers now so someone surely had bars. Right?

[daddytwosticks]

This thread makes me wonder; didn't anyone have a cell phone? According to my reading the AT is practically all on towers now so someone surely had bars. Right?

Down here in the south, cell service is very spotty. Depends on carrier and terrain (in gaps, etc).

[RCBear]

To be perfectly honest, Im having trouble with the idea that no one thought to take his weapons while he slept. If afraid of the repercussions, simply hike right then to the nearest town and go to the local authority, turn them and your incident details over, then continue on your hike.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 2 using Tapatalk 2

[Sampson]

To be perfectly honest, Im having trouble with the idea that no one thought to take his weapons while he slept. If afraid of the repercussions, simply hike right then to the nearest town and go to the local authority, turn them and your incident details over, then continue on your hike.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 2 using Tapatalk 2

What about the more serious repercussions? Like getting shot in the forehead by a drunk guy while you're creeping around trying to confiscate his stuff.

[RCBear]

What about the more serious repercussions? Like getting shot in the forehead by a drunk guy while you're creeping around trying to confiscate his stuff.

They had already been lucky enough to escape his first round of fireworks. Considering they still elected to spend the night, I would say they put themselves in greater danger and just got lucky. Of course, that is based on the details he provided. I dont know how much he did or did not embellish, but I can tell you that apart from my girlfriend, I havent backpacked with a single person that would not have done what I described. If that is beyond ones willingness to do, then the next smartest move would have been to pack up and move on, even in the dead of night. To stay put in that situation just hoping he wont wake up in a violent mood is a dumb move.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 2 using Tapatalk 2

[jj2044]

To be perfectly honest, Im having trouble with the idea that no one thought to take his weapons while he slept. If afraid of the repercussions, simply hike right then to the nearest town and go to the local authority, turn them and your incident details over, then continue on your hike.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 2 using Tapatalk 2

Yea always a smart plan to sneak up on drunks that are shooting off guns, what if he wakes up in your act of trying to get the gun ??? don't know if you have ever been in an AT shelter, but most are a little squeaky... so then you get a confrontation with a drunk that ALWAYS works out right ?? Its easy to be an internet tough guy while setting at your computer, completely different when you there. Next it was night, 1 am, so the person would have to get up and move around pack up there stuff, which would cause noise which might scare the dumbass, your thinking like a normal person, clearly this guy had some issues other then just drunk. I carried when I was on the AT, and I was drunk on the AT a few times, but not one time did I ever think" hey shooting off my gun would be fun!!!" what this guy did takes a special kind of stupid, why they didn't call the cops, good question.... but trying to "take" his gun is just dumb. and clearly if they were removed the next day someone complained and did the right thing..... any other action they did that night might of had HORIBBLE repercussions.

[marti038]

Honestly, I'm more concerned about running into drunks in the woods than guns (or anywhere for that matter). Seems like most bad stories I hear or have seen firsthand involve alcohol or some other form of substance abuse.

[RCBear]

Yea always a smart plan to sneak up on drunks that are shooting off guns, what if he wakes up in your act of trying to get the gun ??? don't know if you have ever been in an AT shelter, but most are a little squeaky... so then you get a confrontation with a drunk that ALWAYS works out right ?? Its easy to be an internet tough guy while setting at your computer, completely different when you there. Next it was night, 1 am, so the person would have to get up and move around pack up there stuff, which would cause noise which might scare the dumbass, your thinking like a normal person, clearly this guy had some issues other then just drunk. I carried when I was on the AT, and I was drunk on the AT a few times, but not one time did I ever think" hey shooting off my gun would be fun!!!" what this guy did takes a special kind of stupid, why they didn't call the cops, good question.... but trying to "take" his gun is just dumb. and clearly if they were removed the next day someone complained and did the right thing..... any other action they did that night might of had HORIBBLE repercussions.

Feel free to re read my post again for a more thorough understanding. You may pick up that I mentioned 2 better scenarios, one of which was to move on immediately if not comfortable with the other suggestion. To simply stay put with no decisive action and praying for the best is dumb and irresponsible. They were lucky.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 2 using Tapatalk 2

[RCBear]

And why would discussing why alternatives on an internet forum be any different than discussing them with a backpacking friend in person? I don't speak in a way anywhere else differently than I would face to face with people. no reason for that

Sent from my Galaxy Note 2 using Tapatalk 2