I thought hiker stink was a fable

[Silent Stroll]

Why on earth would hair and eye color, height, not to mention quite a number of genetic disease be heritable and this one characteristic not be? I'm surprised you can't see the fallacy. ...

I said plainly hereditary. I tend not to look for causes first from my ancestors. I am the youngest of 13 and daily I see people making judgements and decisions about their own life based on their family history. Sometimes it is correct but quite often the cause is specific to them. My 12 siblings agree that we are all similar but we carry no bad health similarities as of yet.
I loved the the info on Asian earwax. Although I still think Oriental is a better word as it is more specific. I thought I was the only one that ever brought up that info in public. These specific Asians have a tool used by the mothers to clean the hard earwax from the childs ears and pass the tool down within the family. An heirloom of sorts. The story I was listening to when I learned of this was described by a daughter that did not have the hard earwax and was looked on by her family as the "odd one". She was their daughter by birth.

[TIDE-HSV]

I said plainly hereditary. I tend not to look for causes first from my ancestors. I am the youngest of 13 and daily I see people making judgements and decisions about their own life based on their family history. Sometimes it is correct but quite often the cause is specific to them. My 12 siblings agree that we are all similar but we carry no bad health similarities as of yet.
I loved the the info on Asian earwax. Although I still think Oriental is a better word as it is more specific. I thought I was the only one that ever brought up that info in public. These specific Asians have a tool used by the mothers to clean the hard earwax from the childs ears and pass the tool down within the family. An heirloom of sorts. The story I was listening to when I learned of this was described by a daughter that did not have the hard earwax and was looked on by her family as the "odd one". She was their daughter by birth.

Oh my, where to start. "Oriental" is of Latin derivation and refers to the area roughly from the Dardanelles to the Pacific. "Asia" is originally of Greek origin and refers to exactly the same area. There have been quibbles over time about the western boundary (it's not truly geographic), there has never been any disagreement about the eastern boundary - it is the Pacific Ocean. To use "Oriental" as a substitute for "Eastern Asian" and insist that it's more specific is, well, silly. "Oriental" could mean anything from an Iraqi Arab to native Siberian. Those two groups do not share either dry ear wax or a paucity of aprocrine glands. In fact, the contrary is true. I'll just have to stick to "Eastern Asian," since it is the term which is really descriptive, not "Oriental."

Now, to the yawning fracture line in your reasoning. You freely admit that Eastern Asian peoples ("Orientals" just for you) have dry ear wax, as a group, whereas you seem unable to grasp the concept that this same group also shares the characteristic of having the fewest apocrine glands of any population on earth. In Koreans, they are sometimes completely absent. To postulate that it just happens that the same ethnic group shares both a sparse number of apocrine glands and dry ear wax and it's all just an accident and does not pertain to location and ethnic grouping staggers the imagination.

Under the skin, we're all Africans, having departed the motherland around 100K years ago. The theory is "ROA," (recently out of Africa), to which I subscribe. However, we have had time to evolve different variations, lighter skin for manufacture of vitamin "D," etc. For some reason, we've evolved other adaptations. Native Africans have retained a much higher number of both eccrine and apocrine glands. The high number of eccrine glands is understandable, since they are directly involved in cooling. The oily-secretion apocrine glands, which output combines with skin flora to produce distinctive odors are more of a mystery - specifically as why they should have decreased in number, the further away from Africa the particular population has moved. That is particularly true since there is less DNA variation between a Chinese native and a Caucasian than any two African village inhabitants. Anyway, bottom line, only as a group, there are going to be mass differences in body odor, for reasons incompletely understood. OTOH, there can be huge variations between any two individuals in a particularly ethnic group and body odors can also be attributed to diet and other factors...

[Silent Stroll]

Now, to the yawning fracture line in your reasoning. You freely admit that Eastern Asian peoples ("Orientals" just for you) have dry ear wax, as a group, whereas you seem unable to grasp the concept that this same group also shares the characteristic of having the fewest apocrine glands of any population on earth. In Koreans, they are sometimes completely absent. To postulate that it just happens that the same ethnic group shares both a sparse number of apocrine glands and dry ear wax and it's all just an accident and does not pertain to location and ethnic grouping staggers the imagination...

You are correct.

I have been yawning.
I have been staggering.
I normally freely admit to things.
You have my apology for disagreeing with you.

[da fungo]

Oh my, where to start. "Oriental" is of Latin derivation and refers to the area roughly from the Dardanelles to the Pacific. "Asia" is originally of Greek origin and refers to exactly the same area. There have been quibbles over time about the western boundary (it's not truly geographic), there has never been any disagreement about the eastern boundary - it is the Pacific Ocean. To use "Oriental" as a substitute for "Eastern Asian" and insist that it's more specific is, well, silly. "Oriental" could mean anything from an Iraqi Arab to native Siberian. Those two groups do not share either dry ear wax or a paucity of aprocrine glands. In fact, the contrary is true. I'll just have to stick to "Eastern Asian," since it is the term which is really descriptive, not "Oriental."Now, to the yawning fracture line in your reasoning. You freely admit that Eastern Asian peoples ("Orientals" just for you) have dry ear wax, as a group, whereas you seem unable to grasp the concept that this same group also shares the characteristic of having the fewest apocrine glands of any population on earth. In Koreans, they are sometimes completely absent. To postulate that it just happens that the same ethnic group shares both a sparse number of apocrine glands and dry ear wax and it's all just an accident and does not pertain to location and ethnic grouping staggers the imagination. Under the skin, we're all Africans, having departed the motherland around 100K years ago. The theory is "ROA," (recently out of Africa), to which I subscribe. However, we have had time to evolve different variations, lighter skin for manufacture of vitamin "D," etc. For some reason, we've evolved other adaptations. Native Africans have retained a much higher number of both eccrine and apocrine glands. The high number of eccrine glands is understandable, since they are directly involved in cooling. The oily-secretion apocrine glands, which output combines with skin flora to produce distinctive odors are more of a mystery - specifically as why they should have decreased in number, the further away from Africa the particular population has moved. That is particularly true since there is less DNA variation between a Chinese native and a Caucasian than any two African village inhabitants. Anyway, bottom line, only as a group, there are going to be mass differences in body odor, for reasons incompletely understood. OTOH, there can be huge variations between any two individuals in a particularly ethnic group and body odors can also be attributed to diet and other factors...

Not challenging you, but so I can do some follow up reading, but do you have any citations on that low level of DNA variation between Caucasians and Chinese? And, by Chinese, I assume you mean members of the Han majority and not members of the many other ethnic minorities?

[TIDE-HSV]

Not challenging you, but so I can do some follow up reading, but do you have any citations on that low level of DNA variation between Caucasians and Chinese? And, by Chinese, I assume you mean members of the Han majority and not members of the many other ethnic minorities?

I can dig up some from the past and PM them to you. I wouldn't want to bore stroll with more facts. I'll send you some suggested books also. It really complicates medical treatment because of the wide variation in how drugs affect AA people and, really, all the rest of us. My cardiologist happens to be black and he and I have discussed it. His group now does a DNA test for Cytochrome P450 and its fractions to try to get a better idea of how we metabolize drugs. The diversity among Africans is really fairly well understood. Any populations, human or animal isolated for extended periods tend to "churn" and turn out mutations, whereas the migrants (all of us not African - not just Han) tend to have less diversity...

[lynn523]

"No threads on stink would be complete with out Dr. Zappa's take... "

This!

[JustaTouron]

There are two things that make it worse now that years ago. Only one is synthetics. The other is the switch from external frame packs to internal or frameless.

With an external pack there is ventilation between your back and the pack. With the others your pack smells like a sweaty shirt that has never been washed since the day it was purchased. (Because that is basically what it is)

[Rolls Kanardly]

[QUOTE=Semodex;1497417]That must of been awful! I think the smell is one reason i hate going to any mall...never understood why anyone (male or female) would feel the need to douse themselves with perfume.
I agree
Fragrances (cologne, perfume, toilet spray, or whatever) were originally supposed to be alluring, mystifying, seductive, kind of draw the intended "victim" oops, person in closer. Now days people wear so much "smell" they leave puddles when they stand still. Rolls Kanardly

[TIDE-HSV]

There are two things that make it worse now that years ago. Only one is synthetics. The other is the switch from external frame packs to internal or frameless.

With an external pack there is ventilation between your back and the pack. With the others your pack smells like a sweaty shirt that has never been washed since the day it was purchased. (Because that is basically what it is)

The Osprey internals have a mesh suspension which holds the pack itself out away from your body. My mesh has never picked up a smell, but, if it did, I'd have to wash the whole pack, since it's made together. Also, it's a bit harder to pack because of the narrowing caused inside by the suspension...

[trinzushi]

The Osprey internals have a mesh suspension which holds the pack itself out away from your body. My mesh has never picked up a smell, but, if it did, I'd have to wash the whole pack, since it's made together. Also, it's a bit harder to pack because of the narrowing caused inside by the suspension...

I have an Osprey Aura I used for two weeks.. and it definitely picked up the smell of my nasty synthetic shirt and BO! That was my first mistake- the synthetic shirt. Should probably try more febreze. Don't get me wrong- I practice hygiene religiously! I went through a weeks worth of wetwipes in two nights (slight germ/dirt a phobe) .. So, remaining clean was not an issue for me. However, the mesh, the foam in the waist straps, and the frame that comes in contact with my body soaked the smell right up. The mesh doesn't quite work as well in reducing odor for me than it has for you... You must just smell better than I do, for sure! :P I'm partially NA and I clearly didn't get that low BO benefit! LOL

[Sara]

According to '23 and Me' (genetic testing) ear wax type is dry. I can also confirm this.
My father, brothers and I rarely wear deodorant because it is unnecessary.
I was born to be a non-smelly hiker. :P

Now back to being on topic -
I wish some more pungent hikers would swap out their synthetics for merino wool.

[leaftye]

Now back to being on topic -
I wish some more pungent hikers would swap out their synthetics for merino wool.

And I wish someone would make boxer briefs with a 9 inch inseam.

[TIDE-HSV]

I have an Osprey Aura I used for two weeks.. and it definitely picked up the smell of my nasty synthetic shirt and BO! That was my first mistake- the synthetic shirt. Should probably try more febreze. Don't get me wrong- I practice hygiene religiously! I went through a weeks worth of wetwipes in two nights (slight germ/dirt a phobe) .. So, remaining clean was not an issue for me. However, the mesh, the foam in the waist straps, and the frame that comes in contact with my body soaked the smell right up. The mesh doesn't quite work as well in reducing odor for me than it has for you... You must just smell better than I do, for sure! :P I'm partially NA and I clearly didn't get that low BO benefit! LOL

Well, genes are a crap-shoot. You just don't know which ones you'll get. I have the same characteristic of Sara below, but I do have the wet ear wax. I exercise aerobically daily and I tend to wear the same clothes probably longer than I should, just because they don't pick up odor. Sometimes, I'll notice salt stains and go oops! and throw them in the laundry bin...

[da fungo]

"...but I do have the wet ear wax."

TMI, TMI!!! Isn't that oversharing?

Anyone got some eyeball bleach handy?

[da fungo]

"...but I do have the wet ear wax."

TMI, TMI!!! Isn't that oversharing?

Anyone got some eyeball bleach handy?

[Pony]

The smelliest hiker I've ever encountered was day hiking. The smell was god awful. I couldn't get within five feet of her without wanting to puke, and I had been hiking for 3+ months. True story.

[hikerboy57]

The smelliest hiker I've ever encountered was day hiking. The smell was god awful. I couldn't get within five feet of her without wanting to puke, and I had been hiking for 3+ months. True story.

I'm guessing it was obsession by Calvin Klein

[rocketsocks]

Well, genes are a crap-shoot. You just don't know which ones you'll get. I have the same characteristic of Sara below, but I do have the wet ear wax. I exercise aerobically daily and I tend to wear the same clothes probably longer than I should, just because they don't pick up odor. Sometimes, I'll notice salt stains and go oops! and throw them in the laundry bin...

My Doctor told us that people of European decent are more prone to ear wax and ear infections due to smaller ear canals.