Overpriced shuttles?

[Anderson]

Obviously there are walkers who will pay the asking cost i have seen and paid costs that seem very low and others that seem great sometimes there is no obvious rhyme or purpose all in all i have no issue with shuttlers creating a benefit their lifestyle creates my area climbing activity a lot easier......!!!!

[Just Bill]

Here in Chicago; As a contractor I can charge up to $150 an hour for a journeyman tradesman, of which about $30 actually goes into the actual employees pocket. $150 an hour is outrageous, but in reality I make about 3% when it's all said and done. Every business has overhead, expenses, taxes, and on and on. Unfortunately not every shuttle service is a nice retired fella who has nothing better to do, some of them (god forbid) make a very modest supplemental income.

It's still a free country, the trail in particular. Don't like it, don't buy it- or (god forbid) if it doesn't fit your budget you may have to actually walk.

[moytoy]

Toms shuttle of Irwin (10K) who has a banner that run across the top of this page actually posts his prices on his website. I don't know them and have never used their shuttles but the prices seem pretty fair. Shuttles are going to get more expensive the further north you go generally. It's the law of the land

[mhurley]

10k is a great shuttle driver. Very knowledgeable of his area and full of good information. He is always early and he has good prices.

[10-K]

I charge between $1.75 and $2.00 per mile, depending on the destination. I post rates right on my website and they are what they are.

I also have insurance that will cover you if we're in an accident and that's one of the reasons my rates are what they are. To give you an idea, I would have to run 200 (yes, two hundred) shuttles to Sam's Gap from Erwin just to pay for the insurance on 2 vehicles.

I even have city and county business licenses.

Add to the mix 2 vehicles that are new-newish and in very good shape.

When I started doing this I asked myself "What do I look for in a shuttle?" and that's what I created. I'm not trying to be the cheapest because I can't be doing it legit the way I am.

[10-K]

Regarding having insurance.... I know pretty much everybody that shuttles in Erwin and I've asked a few of them why they don't have insurance and both answers were variations of, "If I get sued they can't get anything because I don't have anything." That freaks me out.....

The other angle is "shuttle by donation" which, if you check with an agent or underwriter, is not a very sophisticated way of not having the proper insurance and if there's an accident that's going to be a real problem.

I guess the way I look at it is that why would have have thousands of dollars in hiking gear and turn around and risk my neck to save $10-$20 on a shuttle. It just isn't worth it.

If you're in the business of shuttling and you call yourself a shuttler and don't have the right insurance you're insane.

[Hill Ape]

Personally, I think it's only a matter of time before "the man" cracks down on the hiker services that avoid taxes, insurance, regulations, licensing etc by playing in the grey area of a donation based business model. Then you'll really hear crying about the costs. I've got mixed feelings about that. I think a lot of great people/places will no longer be able to operate. The trail, all experience to the contrary, is not the romantic utopia many of us want it to be. There is no escape from the world. Capitalist society will always rear it's head. Pay a fair price for the services you use. Or lament the loss of bygone trail days

[blisterbob]

Interesting reading for all the opinions!

I was in the trail angel category when I did services for hikers on the Pinhoti Trail
and relied on hiker generosity only. My insurance covered passengers as if it was a carpool.
I reported and paid tax on the tips I received.

I shuttled 10K when he came to the Pinhoti and am sorry he thinks I am insane.

I no longer do services for hikers, mostly because of out of State interests and cannot be available
a lot of the time. I was never late for a shuttle.
My observations over 2 years;
Thru hikers expect a lot for a little.
On the second or third shuttle section hikers think they don't need to tip because 'we're friends'.
And it was a turn off to hear about their expensive vacation or cruise and only a thank you when
I dropped them off.
In summary, a quote I read on another forum
"If you can't pay-don't play".

[Plodderman]

I have no problem with Shuttle prices and have used them often. $85 for one hiker going 25 miles is higher than I have paid but I don't my paying asking price and giving a tip to the driver. Appreciate the service and the lively conversation.

[max patch]

Thru hikers expect a lot for a little.

I guess things have changed since I thru'd, but except for getting to the trailhead at the start and getting from the trailhead at the end, I can't imagine why a "thruhiker" would need a shuttle at all.

[10-K]

Bob, since we talked I have learned much about the business end of shuttling. I had only been at it for a few months then.

I'm telling you - had you been in a serious accident a $2 attorney would have gotten right through the carpool defense.

That's just how it is. Shuttlers want to feel insured so they come up with obvious attempts to get around proper livery insurance. Insurance companies aren't stupid and they have plenty of legal muscle

I have spent umpteen hours studying this and talked with an underwriter friend of mine in Wilmington who is also an attorney - I'm sure of my info.

[10-K]

One other thing - if your insurance agent helps you concoct a work-around and there's a lawsuit - what he/she told you is out the window. The only thing that matters is what the policy says that has your signature on it.

I'm not the shuttle insurance police - I'm just sharing what I've learned as I've researched the business. How people run their business is none of my business.

[coach lou]

Tom, I deal with Auto Insurance every day. Agents, sell the bottom line......It is rare that you're told what your coverage actually is. I am usually the bearer of bad news.

[Praha4]

it's amazing anyone can survive running a small business these days, and I admire anyone running a shuttle service or hiker hostel .... there's blood sucking ambulance-chasing trail lawyers, insurance companies, govt. regulation, rising fuel costs, liability insurance, taxes, health insurance, and then there's the matter of just plain dealing with the public. My wife and I have a small vacation house cleaning business here along the NW Florida Gulf coast. I would never, ever try to grow the business, buy vehicles and hire more people in today's economy and climate for this very reason. It's far simpler to just have a small mom n' pop biz and avoid the excess govt regs. I'll pay the shuttle driver his going rate if he's on time and gets me from point A to B safely. The alternative is hitch or walk.

[10-K]

Tom, I deal with Auto Insurance every day. Agents, sell the bottom line......It is rare that you're told what your coverage actually is. I am usually the bearer of bad news.

Man, I tell ya...

Once you start really looking at insurance it is very, very specific and they are not in the business of extending courtesy coverage to people because they come up with creative ideas not to buy the correct type of policy.

If they don't have to pay, and there is an out - they're not going to and just because you're a nice guy doing a good deed or call yourself a trail angel - they could care less.

Between learning about passenger insurance and talking with my attorney-underwriter friend I just about decided to save my money and stay home.

If you're a shuttler reading this please don't be upset with me for pointing out these issues. I strongly, strongly encourage you to fact check me and factor what you learn into your own business operation.

[blisterbob]

Bob, since we talked I have learned much about the business end of shuttling. I had only been at it for a few months then.

I'm telling you - had you been in a serious accident a $2 attorney would have gotten right through the carpool defense.

That's just how it is. Shuttlers want to feel insured so they come up with obvious attempts to get around proper livery insurance. Insurance companies aren't stupid and they have plenty of legal muscle

I have spent umpteen hours studying this and talked with an underwriter friend of mine in Wilmington who is also an attorney - I'm sure of my info.

Tom,
Thank you and the others for the info.
It reinforces my decision to stop the services.
I guess I doubted but didn't want to admit about my Ins. coverage even though it was in the written policy.

[blisterbob]

I guess things have changed since I thru'd, but except for getting to the trailhead at the start and getting from the trailhead at the end, I can't imagine why a "thruhiker" would need a shuttle at all.

How about when thru hikers need a ride to town for re-supply, motel, doctor, zero's, safety from storms, skip road walks.

[max patch]

How about when thru hikers need a ride to town for re-supply, motel, doctor, zero's, safety from storms, skip road walks.

Walk or hitch. No need for a paid shuttle.

[10-K]

I would delete this post if I could because the one below is a duplicate.

[10-K]

There's not a personal automobile policy on the planet that'll cover running shuttles for money. No matter how you parse it - donations or set fee.

That's all I'm saying.