To hang, or not to hang? Food bag, that is.

[Big Dawg]

I've recently read threads on bear bagging, etc. Plenty of opinions. In my 314 AT miles, I've hung my food approximately half the time, the latter half, that is. I've never had a food raid, but heard of plenty of raid stories. I didn't really think about it much when I first started the AT. As I've tried to lighten the load/pack, I've considered leaving my 7oz hanging "kit" behind. I've been monitoring Andrew Skurka's C2C trek across the country (now finished), & noticed no mention on his gear lists of rope/hanging device & read of no raids from his food bag. Hmmmmmmm Makes me wonder if I really need to lug that 7oz along the trail? Any more thoughts???

[jackiebolen]

I didn't hang and didn't even carry rope after the first couple hundred miles on the AT. Not saying it's right...

[Footslogger]

Why tempt fate ?? Hanging a food bag isn't that big of a deal and it just makes sense.

But hey ...if you don't feel it's necessary, go for it. Just do me a favor. If we're ever in the same campsite and you decide to sleep with your food, please keep your distance so that you're the only one who gets victimized.

All it takes is one varmint or bear incident and you'll wish you'd hung a bag.

Nuff said ...

'Slogger

[TakeABreak]

While it not always necessary if you are not camping in an area that is not heavily used(permanent campsites, shelters or well used campsites) it is a good idea, because you never and as said above why tempt fate.

If I may add on what footslogger said, if you do used a highly used campsite, you have very good chance that there are resident mice, raccoons and bear that come by looking for a snack.

So if you use one of these regular site, please don't think that you will be intitled to other people's food once yours has been comtaminated by mice. I shared once with a person because they were to lazy to hang their food, after their entire food bag had been comtaninated, it won't happen again. ( not say I would not share with someone in a true emergency, just thos ewho refuse to follow good logic)

Remember mice don't just take one itme and munch on it, they have a taste of everything, comtaminating everything in the bag.

[TakeABreak]

I didn't mean to sound so rude in my above post or demeaning, I just had bad experiences with people who don't think that hanging food is important or worth their time. It is also why there are so many problems with mice, rodents and bears on A.T. these days.

[Youngblood]

Heck, I've heard of varmits getting to food bags that were hung from bear cables and from bear lines away from campsites. I don't think there are any guarantees but you can improve your chances... by a lot.

[Lone Wolf]

I only hung food when I stayed in shelters, which I will not do anymore. I have never hung food while staying in my tent. I always sleep with it.

[Dances with Mice]

Heck, I've heard of varmits getting to food bags that were hung from bear cables and from bear lines away from campsites. I don't think there are any guarantees but you can improve your chances... by a lot.

I've just been passed this note from the Georgia Blue Ridge flying squirrel population: They LOVE the cable systems installed at all the GATC shelters. Couldn't be easier! Each night all this food is being hung right up at their level! They coast in at night and eat their fill, then either raccoons or the Flying Wallenda Mice Family get the blame. It's like a win-win-win situation for them. They appreciate all the good work, keep hanging those food bags high!

Nobody ever sees flying squirrels. They're nocturnal and really good at not being seen. It's a talent they've developed in order to keep being flying squirrels.

[BigE]

I'm hiking the SNP from south to north next week and I can ASSURE you that I'll be hanging mine. I've been hiking around SNP since about '73, and I have never seen so many bears as I have this year. All you have to do is read some of the journals of the hikers that went through the park this year and you'll have no shortage of varmint/bear/food stories. One guy was at Hightop hut in June, got there late in the afternoon and set up a tent. He left his stuff sitting next to the tent and went down to the spring (it's still daylight mind ya) when he got back a bear was rippin' into his stuff and ran off with his water bottle. He found the bottle up the trail the next day with holes all in it - even took a picture of it. It's easy enough to hang it, and I still feel manly afterwards ;-)

=e=

[fiddlehead]

WHen i first decided to hike the JMT (1990) i went and talked to Cindy Ross who had just hiked it a year or two before to find out about potential differences from the AT. The first thing she said was about hanging food. She said that if you do it perfectly (balance method with no way to grab the rope except with a hook attached to a walking stick) the bear would still most probably get your food but you would have some time to scare it away if you slept very near and kept a hand full of rocks nearby for that purpose. WE practiced at home and did everything she said.
On about our 3rd night camping, after hanging our food in this manner, we were talking with some other hikers who were admiring our system. But then we realized that we were the only ones hanging our food. We asked them about it and they all said they just sleep with their food. We slept with our food from then on.
A few years later, while hiking the PCT, all those who hung their food (in our group) had in stolen by bears. All those who slept with their food, didn't have a problem.
A few years later, while hiking the CDT, i entered the Bob Marshall wilderness by myself and was a little concerned with all of the grizzly bear stories. So, i hung my food away from my tent (went by the book in other words) Well, i didn't like being in a section that is 150 miles between resupply and not knowing if my food was being stolen or not until morning. So, when i met a ranger who had been there for many years, we talked about this and she said: "off the record, i sleep with my food" so that settled it for me, i sleep with my food except in Nat. Parks where i don't believe the bears to be normal. I mean, they are not afraid of humans in Nat. Parks and that's not normal. So, when in the smokies, or shenendoahs, i hang. In Yosemite (i've done the JMT 4 more times since that 1st one) I camp where no one else camps and have never been bothered. This sometimes means right at treeline or stealth camping in a remote location.
So, i think common sense is usually better than going by the book on these things!

[minnesotasmith]

I finished a section hike on the AT from Neels Gap to Dick's Creek Gap about 10 days ago. At the shelter at Low Gap, I had my food bag raided by a flying squirrel. I went outside the shelter at about 0500 to take a leak, and with my headlamp saw something on top of my (properly hung on bear cables) foodbag. It was small and very skinny, and practically flew away when I waved my light at it. My food bag had a quarter-sized hole in it. A Hershey's miniature chocolate bar and a blueberry whole-grain breakfast bar are what it chewed on. This is the only varmint/food bag encounter I've had on the AT with bear-cable-hung food so far.

[Nean]

Of all the bear stole my food stories I've heard, they'd lost their food 1 of 2 ways. #1 way: bear bagging #2: food left unattended. Out west in the high Sierra they banned bear bagging for that reason. Trash, food scraps, spills, and unattended food attract the rodents, etc. Unless they raised many of the bear poles in SNP those things are worthless, no, inviting to bears. I don't sleep with my food cause I'm brave, I do cuz I hungry.

[Sly]

I also slept with my food in the Bob. On a little advice from Nean, I triple bagged it. A little scary at first, but in 5 minutes I was sleeping, snoring away!

Like Fiddlehead the only place I hang or use bear boxes in NP's where such food storage devices are provided. That said when I do the JMT next month, I'll probably rent a canister only beacuase I don't want to get a ticket and I think they've expanded the requirements.

[BigE]

I'm following this thread with great interest to say the least - since I'm heading out this Saturday. I certainly respect all of these opinions especially since I know that a lot of you folks have a lot more trail experience than I do, but I tell ya - I just can't see sleeping with what that bear's after right under my nose! I don't think I could sleep knowing that what he's looking for is in my tent. Then I read stories like <a href="http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9741">this post</a>. If a bear steals my food off of the pole - well that would be unfortunate. If a bear rips a gaping hole in the side of my tent (and maybe catching my arm or leg in the process) to get to the smellables in there, that's a little more than unfortunate. I just can't imagine having food in my tent and slepping at all - but I admit that may be the "rookie" in me. I'm really looking forward to this section hike. Out of all the things one needs to consider before taking off, there are 3 that are at the top of my mind: 1. water 2. lightning 3. bears I'd like to think I could have some proactive influence on at least two of those items ;-)

=e=

[Sly]

Big E do what you thinks best and you're most comfortable with. If you insist on hanging food and there are no food storage devices provided try using the PCT method. It's not only one of the easiest, it also has the best chance of working.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-...technique.html

[BigE]

Thanks Sly -
I'll check that out.

=e=

[Alligator]

Hey, that was an excellent link Sly. I'll try that one. It looks like using the PCT method gives a bag height roughly equal to 1/2x(ht branch-max arm ht of hiker) + max arm ht of hiker. In fact, you could go a step further and tie a loop beneath the twig and coil the remaining rope up, eliminating hanging cord. Then you would need a stick to snag the loop.

[Footslogger]

In a lot of forested areas out west the trees are all conifers and have no suitable branches over which to throw a line. I ran into this situation for the first time years ago when hiking in northeastern New Mexico. The back country rangers there showed me a method using 2 ropes and a small caribiner. You throw each of the lines over the top of 2 evergreen trees that are about 15 - 20 feet apart. You secure the caribiner to the loose ends of the lines between the trees. Attach your food bag to the caribiner and then then pull on the outside ends (in alternating fashion) of each line until the food bag is suspended the desired height off the ground between the two trees and tie off the lines.

This method does require 2 lines (the ones I carry are about 40' each and are 1/8" in diameter) but still only the single key chain style caribiner. I have used this method exclusively since relocating to Wyoming and have never had a problem. Carrying the extra length of line doesn't bother me and if not needed for hanging food has often come in handy for other uses in my campsite.

I have personally had only one incident involving a raided food bag. It was in the 100 Mile Wilderness. The bag was hung over a tree branch but rather near a shelter. The bag itself was too close to the actual branch and a small animal was able to walk out and drop down onto the bag and have a snack at my expense. Lesson learned ...allow the bag to sit several feet below the branch. That said, I have personally witnessed bears on multiple occasions trying to shake food bags loose from trees. I'm a bit doubtfull that a bear who is so intent on getting at a food bag would hesitate going into a tent and snatching it from under a hiker.

Like I said earlier ...I don't believe in tempting fate. Carrying the necessary materials and hanging a bag at night is a small price to pay for peace of mind. In the end, even if my food bag is mangled or missing in the morning, I'd rather walk out of the woods on an empty stomach than take my chances with a hungry, curious and aggressive bear.

'Slogger

[Big Dawg]

I appreciate all the great responses!!

[soulrebel]

Just curious, Does anyone use Odor Proof Sacks? Are OP sacks even effective? Cuz this year that's what I'm trying -- inside a silnet bag using the PCT method...

I've always hung my food bag/hid it in a car/ or buried it. And a few times I've slept with it... The only method that I knew was 100% was the car... Anyone slackpack a vehicle storage system?