Is Hoisting a food bag really just BS?

[firesign]

Hi Guys,


I have read so many articles on hoisting a food bag into the trees, and in principle, I agree.

I have however, never read an article about also hoisting one's rubbish bag into the trees. If the scent of one's food is so important, then why not the rubbish bag also, or am I just missing the plot?


I appreciate your time in responding,

Best

Firesign

[hikerboy57]

if you do hang your food, you do hang your trash with it, as well as toiletries or any other scented items.

[Lone Wolf]

i've never hung food or trash so for me hangin' it is BS

[Rocket Jones]

If you're going to hang, hang everything that smells such as food, trash, toiletries (toothpaste, etc), and cookpot.

[firesign]

If you're going to hang, hang everything that smells such as food, trash, toiletries (toothpaste, etc), and cookpot.

Im not taking the P*ss here, but what about our own body odour to a Bear? (whether we wash or not)

Ive never been attacked by a Black Bear, but I assume that they are smart enough to detect the the real meaty substance inside the tent?

Best,

Firesign

[fredmugs]

Im not taking the P*ss here, but what about our own body odour to a Bear? (whether we wash or not)

Ive never been attacked by a Black Bear, but I assume that they are smart enough to detect the the real meaty substance inside the tent?

Best,

Firesign

A real meaty substance that can kill them. Based on no scientific evidence whatsoever I believe you can sleep with your food because the bear smells the food that it wants and the human it has learned to avoid. This theory (for me) only applies to black bears.

[Slo-go'en]

Ive never been attacked by a Black Bear, but I assume that they are smart enough to detect the the real meaty substance inside the tent?

They have been known to go after the food smells on clothes you bring into the tent. Try not to use your pants legs as a place to wipe your hands. That's usually the reason boy scouts are pulled out of tents by bears. In Grizzly country they recommend hanging the clothes you cook in too.

[freeholden]

I sleep with my food, unless I'm sleeping in a shelter and everyone else is using the bear cables. I'll hang then anf go with the flow and avoid the argument with " that one guy". No big deal...

[Odd Man Out]

Im not taking the P*ss here, but what about our own body odour to a Bear? (whether we wash or not)

Ive never been attacked by a Black Bear, but I assume that they are smart enough to detect the the real meaty substance inside the tent?

Best,

Firesign

Disclaimer - all of my reading on this subject is based on black bears in the Eastern US. Grizzlies out west are entirely different.

Almost never are Black Bears going after you. There are very very few confirmed cases of predatory black bears (i.e. ones that attack and eat humans). When you read cases about bear "attacks", it is important to keep in mind the context. In almost every case the bear is either defending itself because it feels threatened or it is going after food. So it is not entirely accurate to classify these as "attacks". Assuming that you don't go out of your way to piss off the bear, we are talking about the latter problem - the bear going after your food. There was a case where a bear took a swipe at a woman's head through the tent wall. It seems she had used melon scented shampoo (even the EMTs noticed the smell). I'm sure the bear though he had found a cantaloupe and was disappointed to discover it was just one of those scary human heads. So in fact smelling like a human is an important part of bear defense. I asked a well known bear expert on this and he put it this way. The reality is that the bear's fear of you is much greater than its desire to get your food.

All of this explains a number of things. One, if you are going to hang you food, you should in theory also hang anything that smells like food (toiletries, food waste, cooking pots, etc...). Two - be sure to smell like a human. The bear's sense of smell is way better than ours so cleaning up with unscented soap is OK - he is going to smell you no matter what - but don't mask your odor with food scented toiletries. Three - sleeping with your food (as is done by many on this site) is a reasonable strategy depending on your comfort level. Bears go after food hung on trees very often, but cases of bears going after food in tents occupied by a human are rare. Even rarer are bears going after food in a backpack worn by a hiker. All of this is consistent with the "bear is more afraid of you" principle. But hanging your food is also a reasonable solution. It lowers the chance of a bear coming in your tent looking for food (but probably only by a small amount since it's a low probability event to start with), but also increases the probability of the bear getting your food, and if you hang your food poorly, I would guess that probability goes up by a lot. That's not good for the hiker and even worse for the bear.

[Colter]

They have been known to go after the food smells on clothes you bring into the tent...That's usually the reason boy scouts are pulled out of tents by bears. In Grizzly country they recommend hanging the clothes you cook in too.

The first two phrases are speculative. I have never in my life known an experienced backpacker in the real world to hang cooking clothing.

[Sly]

If you're going to hang your food use the PCT method (Google/Youtube it)

[Sly]

The first two phrases are speculative. I have never in my life known an experienced backpacker in the real world to hang cooking clothing.

Hiking with a group on the CDT, unless it was required (Glacier/Yellowstone) we were really lax in Griz country, eating in our tents, and sleeping with our food.

When I went back solo a few years later, I typically used the PCT method, for food only, in Griz country.

[BirdBrain]

I hang my food and trash. I only boil water in my cook set. No need to hang that. When I am being watched by another hiker, I usually say that I am hanging my raccoon bag. I am more worried about them getting into my food than a bear. I don't see this as a big deal. I don't care if other people have differing methods. That is their business. For me, I just don't see the down side.

[Grampie]

HANGING YOUR FOOD AND TREATING YOUR WATER FALLS INTO THE SAME CATAGORY...."iT'S BETTER TO BE SAFE THAN TO BE SORRY."

[moldy]

To the OP. It’s doubtful that hanging your food bag will help protect you on your hike. However it is a fair theory that if all hikers act to keep bears from getting hiker food it will, in the long run, teach the bears that interacting with hikers won’t result in getting food. Once bears learn that hikers won’t feed them then the number of human/bear problems will be reduced. It’s a nice theory that for the most part does not work. There are many hikers who just won’t go along. There are humans who feed the bears along the Appalachian Trail so they can see a bear. I recently observed a guy with a little tiny kid just off the trail seated next to a tree in the late evening. It was inside SNP, he had a nice pile of dog food 20 yards away. There he was camera at the ready. I said, see anything?. Not yet. When I got to the nearby shelter I called the Rangers number that was posted there and let them know. Telling all the hikers to hang their food is also an easy cop-out for the Forrest Service and Park Service who would otherwise have to act on all hiker/bear incidents by doing something other than to hang up some signs. So if some hiker gets hurt or worse, they can say that the hikers were warned with all the signs we hung up. The future of the trail calls for more hikers. This is not good news for the bears. If there was a ton of enforcement, patrols, with big fines, we could turn this around. More signs won’t cut it.

[CarlZ993]

I guess hanging your food depends what may get your food in the locale you're backpacking in (& how diligent they'll be to try to get it) . Some places, like the Nat'l Parks in the Sierras, require a bear canister. Black bears there are known to get properly bear-bagged food that would foil the efforts of AT bears. Plus, they are used to people. I've had bears walk into my camp on multiple occasions while in the Sierras. In car camping locales in the the Sierra parks, you can't even keep food in your vehicle. The bears will break into your vehicle to get food. Other locales - such as the Grand Canyon - squirrels are the main worry. Along the AT, I was mainly worried about mice getting to my food. They did once (inside a cabin @ Harrison's Pierce Pond Camp).

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. If you lose your food, it will probably come at the worse time. Days from resupply. Keep you food properly secured for the conditions you are camping in.

[BirdBrain]

HANGING YOUR FOOD AND TREATING YOUR WATER FALLS INTO THE SAME CATAGORY...."iT'S BETTER TO BE SAFE THAN TO BE SORRY."

That is where I am at. I feel the odds are extremely low that my food would be tampered with if I slept with it. If a bag is hung properly the odds approach zero. The sad part is many do not know how to hang a bag. I showed many hikers on my recent trip how to do it properly (if they showed an interest). There were a couple times that I slept with my food because there was not a suitable place to hang it.

You are correct to link this to the water treating debate. Many people think they have that all figured out. I filter everything. Is it overkill? Absolutely. However, I am not the guy that had his hike interrupted by a hospital stay because of drinking bad water. Ran into one such fellow. Guess what? He is filtering now.

[firesign]

Based on your experience.

If the scent of one's food is so important, then why not the rubbish bag also, or am I just missing the plot?


I appreciate your time in responding,

[BirdBrain]

Based on your experience.

If the scent of one's food is so important, then why not the rubbish bag also, or am I just missing the plot?


I appreciate your time in responding,

Absolutely the rubbish bag should be hoisted. Quite frankly the rubbish bag is more important to hang than the food. The food is less likely to stink than the rubbish is. My rubbish is the used freezer bags that I use in my cozy and a few small things. Yes, the cozy gets hung too and the spoon.

[BirdBrain]

One more post to the OP: It is very possible to hang your food wrong and run a much higher risk of having it tampered with than if you sleep with it. I am convinced that the odds are extremely low of the food being tampered with if you sleep with it (especially if you use a odor proof bag). This is a matter of your comfort level. Figure out what will work good for you and ignore the noise.