Grand Canyon North Rim Camping - No Reservation/No Permit?

[KKBaloney]

I'm going to be in the Grand Canyon in October hiking a rim-to-rim yo-yo. I've got multi-day reservations at the North Rim campground but I might have to lay over an extra day waiting for a walk-up permit. There are no campsites available on that day.

Are there any options other than begging a tent site off of someone at the campground?

[Dogwood]

Ok so we're on the same page, you're doing a R2R2R beginning at the N Rim? Ending at the N. Rim? Doing it by getting a walk up permit? At the N Rim Permit Office(it's at the N Rim Ranger Station)? How late into Oct? Are you looking to stay one additional night camping at the N. Rim? I got answers for ya for all those situations but need to know what you clearly want and what your plans are.

[HooKooDooKu]

First of all, where the #@!! is the Use Area Map on the Grand Canyon Web site? (Why did I have to go off-site to find it after trying for over 10 minutes?)

In any case...

If you can't get a reservation at the developed campground, what about obtaining at back-country permit for the At-Large camping near the north rim?
For example, the Ken Patrick Trail and Uncle Jim Trail appear to be located in the NC9 Use Area adjacent to the start of the Kaibab Trail.

[KKBaloney]

I'm planning to arrive 10/5
I'll be hiking from the South Rim to the North Rim and then back to the South Rim.
I'll be using walk-up permits.
One additional night on the North Rim (but I'm real flexible, if I'm having fun I might stay on the north rim longer.

Thanks

[Dogwood]

If you are going to stay at the N Rim for more than one night that doesn't mean you have to stay at or camp at the main N Rim CG. If you have to stay in the N Rim area then take in additional scenery by doing an additional day hike and camp in that area of the day hike. Do as HooKooDooKu said. But, those aren't the only other hiking or camping alternatives at the N Rim either. Not by a long shot. You seriously should explore N Rim day hiking options that have access to campsites or open or at large camping areas other than the main N Rim CG.

Here's another thing. Just as you're getting a walk up hiking permit you can also get a walk up campsite reservation as a one day thing for the main campground at the N Rim. They hold back a percentage of the campsites just for walk ins. It could be that simple.

Another option. N Rim stealthing spots applying strict LNT principles abound on the N. Rim. Another consideration. Just because a large CG like the main N Rim CG is fully reserved whether be on line and/or as walk ins all those with reservations will not show up to use their reservation. Take that as you wish. Rangers are sometimes notified by those with reservations that they will not show up so last min campsites can and do open up.

BTW, IMO, you picked the best time of the yr to do a R2R2R. Don't under estimate how cold it gets on the N Rim. It's not unusual for the N Rim to shut down sometime in late Oct when the snow on the N Rim access road starts getting deep. It's at a higher elev and it gets more snow and it gets colder than the S Rim. I know they weren't plowing this road during winter.

[KKBaloney]

Most excellent advice
Thanks Dogwood and HooKooDooku!

[Dogwood]

Personally, if I had two or maybe three days at the N Rim area on a R2R2R I would make it better(yes, a R2R2R can be better, here's how) by additionally taking in the Nankoweep Trail(again) at least to Marion Point but going down to the main campsite above the Colorado River and taking in the Anasazi Granaries at the CR and coming back up is not to be missed for intrepid scenery hungry hikers wanting some of the best without all the crowds that GC NP has to offer. There are camping areas on the first 4-5 miles of the NT BEFORE making the big ascent down towards the CR. Hint: bring H2O to the NT TH.

[oldbear]

OP
The easiest solution is to camp in the Kaibab National Forest .
The rules of camping in National Forests are lot less restrictive the rules for camping in National Parks are

[HooKooDooKu]

The easiest solution is to camp in the Kaibab National Forest.

Isn't that about 10 miles away from the North Rim Visitor's Center? How would the OP get there?

If I'm understanding correctly, the OP appears to have a permit for doing a R2R from South to North. He also has reservations for about 2 days at the North Rim campsites. His plan is to use those two days to obtain a walk-up permit to do R2R again to return to the South Rim. The whole purpose of this thread seem to be trying to answer the question "what do I do if I have to wait more than 2 days for a return permit?".

So while the OP is at the North rim, his only mode of transportation would be his own 2 feet and whatever transportation services are available at the North Rim.

[HooKooDooKu]

The whole purpose of this thread seem to be trying to answer the question "what do I do if I have to wait more than 2 days for a return permit?".

I assume you've got the phone number of the company that does the shuttle service between rims. That way, you could always bail and use them to get back to the South Rim.

[Odd Man Out]

First of all, where the #@!! is the Use Area Map on the Grand Canyon Web site? (Why did I have to go off-site to find it after trying for over 10 minutes?)

In any case...

If you can't get a reservation at the developed campground, what about obtaining at back-country permit for the At-Large camping near the north rim?
For example, the Ken Patrick Trail and Uncle Jim Trail appear to be located in the NC9 Use Area adjacent to the start of the Kaibab Trail.

Also, if you used this strategy, couldn't you just include this as part of your first permit so the entire trip would be done on a single permit so you wouldn't have to wait to get a second permit for the return trip?

[KKBaloney]

The whole purpose of this thread seem to be trying to answer the question "what do I do if I have to wait more than 2 days for a return permit?".

That's correct. I like the answer I received.

As a follow-up... Is there anywhere on the North Rim I stash my big backpacking pack while I day hike?

-Kevin

[oldbear]

Isn't that about 10 miles away from the North Rim Visitor's Center? How would the OP get there?

If I'm understanding correctly, the OP appears to have a permit for doing a R2R from South to North. He also has reservations for about 2 days at the North Rim campsites. His plan is to use those two days to obtain a walk-up permit to do R2R again to return to the South Rim. The whole purpose of this thread seem to be trying to answer the question "what do I do if I have to wait more than 2 days for a return permit?".

So while the OP is at the North rim, his only mode of transportation would be his own 2 feet and whatever transportation services are available at the North Rim.

Both Rims of GCNP abut the Kaibab NF
SR 67 runs from the Jct of US 89A @ Jacob Lake to the N.Rim VC and about 2/3 of it is in Kaibab NF
Hitchhiking is a viable means of transportation and there is lodging in Jacob Lake

[HooKooDooKu]

Also, if you used this strategy, couldn't you just include this as part of your first permit so the entire trip would be done on a single permit so you wouldn't have to wait to get a second permit for the return trip?

Without going into the details of GCNP permit system, suffice to say that GCNP permits are issued by mail about 4 months in advance.

So the OP applied for his October R2R permit about two months ago, probably planning on taking a shuttle back, and already has that permit in-hand.

Now, the OP has changed his mind and wants to return by doing another R2R hike. But because we're already inside the 4 month window, all the available R2R permits for October have been issues. At this point, the only way to get a R2R permit for October is via walk-up service hoping to aquire a R2R permit someone else has cancelled. Since that involves a bit of luck, it might take several days before a walk-up R2R permit will be aquired.

[oldbear]

OP
This might help
While it's going to be impossible to get into either that Bright Angel or the Cottonwood CGs
There is an alternative
UA AK9 is the entire Clear Creek Trail upriver from the CCC bench under Sumner Butte; it's Threshhold and it's At Large Camping .....and it's also a great place to watch the sunrise
Although it will be dry campsite ,you won't have to lug water from the S. Rim ; instead you can pick it up at BACG or Phantom Ranch before you begin your ascent up to the Platform

[Coffee]

I did a rim-to-rim from the South Rim to North Rim in early June. I stayed at the North Rim campground both before and after my hike (I had a car at the North Rim and took the rim-to-rim shuttle to the South Rim.) Although I had a reservation for a tent site, I can confirm that there is a relatively large backpackers campground within the North Rim campground. It is next to the trail that leads from the campground to the lodge and, when I was there, only one backpacker was using the area. I believe that the campground officials are supposed to allow use of that area on the night prior to and the night after a backcountry hike and only for those who do not have a vehicle. I am not sure how they would react to a person who already has a reservation at the campground transferring to the backpacker section to extend the stay for another night. My guess is that given the time of year, they are likely to be accommodating especially if the reason for staying the additional night is due to waiting for a backcountry permit. But that's only a guess.

[Odd Man Out]

First of all, where the #@!! is the Use Area Map on the Grand Canyon Web site? (Why did I have to go off-site to find it after trying for over 10 minutes?)

I was curious about that too, as I know I had seen it before. So I sent an e-mail and got this reply:

Hi,
It was removed because the map had errors/inconsistencies on it. When a new Backcountry Mangement Plan is made (in the works) we'll have an updated, accurate map on our website again.

thanks for your patience!

Diane Welles



Backcountry Permit Office
Grand Canyon National Park
928-638-7875 (phone)
928-638-2125 (fax)

[Shutterbug]

Are there any options other than begging a tent site off of someone at the campground?

In addition to the other options mentioned, there is a private lodge just outside the entrance to the North Rim. I used it once.

[Dogwood]

Is there anywhere on the North Rim I stash my big backpacking pack while I day hike?

-Kevin

I'd ask at the lodge near the PO(the concierage may hold it for you for as minmal fee orr on a tip basis) or at the Rangers Station. I'm not sure if there are liockers at tyhe N Rim. BTW, I've hiked all those miles into the Kaibab Nat Forest to and past Jacob Lake imnto Utah via the Paria River/Buckskin Gulch all tyyhe way to Zuion NP . In all seriousness hiking in the Kaibab NF in the area of the N Rim is IMHO definitely not the most scenic hiking available in the area in terms of day or multi day hiking. The Nankoweep TH is within walking distance of the main CG at the N Rim so are many other more scenic THs, trails, and camping areas.

[Shutterbug]

You may want to consider alternate plans. If congress and the president don't come to an agreement before Oct. 1, Grand Canyon National Park will be shut down. The last time there was a threat of a shut down, I had a permit for Bright Angel Campground. I couldn't get a reliable answer concerning whether or not I would be able to enter the park if the Government shut down. Even the rangers didn't know. At the last minute, the shutdown was averted. This time, my permit is for Oct. 15. I am hoping the shut down will be resolved before then.