Heet vs. denatured alcohol question?

[William36]

I am quite proud of myself as I have built a soda can alcohol stove and windscreen and pot lid combo all MYOG from household goods or very modest $ walllyworld kinda stuff. Probably $7 in all together including drinking the soda from stove fab.

Consistently boiling or "hot enough" 2 cups of water on 3/4 ounce denatured alcohol which seems prettying impressive to me.

Would I do even better with "Heet" that everyone seems to rave about?

[OutdoorsMan]

I don't like heet as the fumes are toxic. I don't know if it's more efficient than alcohol or not but I won't use it even if it is twice as efficient because of its toxicity.

[MuddyWaters]

No, and maybe.

HEET is methanol. Methanol is toxic to humans, it can cause blindness if ingested. It has a lower heat of combustion than ethanol or denatured alcohol (methanol/ethanol blend).

Methanol - 9800 btu/lb
Ethanol - 12,800 btu/lb

So methanol contains less energy when burned. People use it because it is conveniently available.

However, that doesnt tell the whole story, because methanols vapor pressure is higher. Methanol vaporizes more readily, so it may burn faster in some alcohol stoves. Since stoves are a balance between heat input, and heat lost to environment from the pot, a faster burning stove, MAY be more efficient than a slower burning one. Not always, just a possibility. Where methanol is superior, is cold weather performance due to the higher vapor pressure. It lights and burns better in colder temps.

So, again, no, and maybe.

Personally, I like a 25% methanol/75% ethanol blend. Some small amt water in there. Basically SLX spiked with a little everclear.

[Drybones]

I use Heet because: 1) I notice less odor 2) It seems to boil water faster 3) It's easy to find 4) Cheaper...$1.67/12 oz bottle.

[Captain Blue]

I don't like heet as the fumes are toxic.

Outdoorsman .... could you explain this? I've always heard that methanol burns very cleanly. More clean than a wood campfire.

[OutdoorsMan]

No, and maybe.

HEET is methanol. Methanol is toxic to humans, it can cause blindness if ingested. It has a lower heat of combustion than ethanol or denatured alcohol (methanol/ethanol blend).

Methanol - 9800 btu/lb
Ethanol - 12,800 btu/lb

So methanol contains less energy when burned. People use it because it is conveniently available.

However, that doesnt tell the whole story, because methanols vapor pressure is higher. Methanol vaporizes more readily, so it may burn faster in some alcohol stoves. Since stoves are a balance between heat input, and heat lost to environment from the pot, a faster burning stove, MAY be more efficient than a slower burning one. Not always, just a possibility. Where methanol is superior, is cold weather performance due to the higher vapor pressure. It lights and burns better in colder temps.

So, again, no, and maybe.

Personally, I like a 25% methanol/75% ethanol blend. Some small amt water in there. Basically SLX spiked with a little everclear.

Thanks Muddy. I knew that there was someone who knew more than I do about the properties of these (flammable) liquids.

[Captain Blue]

I don't like heet as the fumes are toxic.

I'd like to know why you say the fumes are toxic. Wikipedia says that ... "Methanol burns in oxygen including open air, forming carbon dioxide and water."

[Raymond James]

Both burn cleanly and unless burnt in a closed space do not pose a danger. Do not drink either one. I would use try and use HEET in late fall /winter/early spring but other wise use what you have/whichever is cheaper.

[Odd Man Out]

The unburned fumes are toxic. Burning any fuel can also produce some toxic by-products of partially combusted fuel (carbon monoxide, e.g.), but because I'm using these outside (not in my tent or other enclosed space), I don't worry about using either.

[wannahike]

Burning any fuel can also produce some toxic by-products of partially combusted fuel (carbon monoxide, e.g.),.[/QUOTE]

This made me think, HA I store my stove in my cookpot and usually just wipe it out with a bandanna before boiling water in case some sand or dirt got in it. I know lots of people store their stoves in their cookpot, so is there any chance of greasy leftover toxic whatever that should be washed out of the pot? Or should the stove be put in a plastic bag before storing in the cookpot?
Or should I just go no-cook. Which I have tried and liked actually.

[FarmerChef]

Burning any fuel can also produce some toxic by-products of partially combusted fuel (carbon monoxide, e.g.),.

This made me think, HA I store my stove in my cookpot and usually just wipe it out with a bandanna before boiling water in case some sand or dirt got in it. I know lots of people store their stoves in their cookpot, so is there any chance of greasy leftover toxic whatever that should be washed out of the pot? Or should the stove be put in a plastic bag before storing in the cookpot?
Or should I just go no-cook. Which I have tried and liked actually.

Nah. Just swish it out with a bit of water and/or wipe dry. Someone with more technical knowledge can correct me here but the thin film of evaporated methanol is not going to cause you any significant toxicity. No more than if you spilled some on your hands while lighting your stove and then ate your food with those bare hands after you wiped them off.

[dla]

Carry a bottle of Jack Daniels. After you spill methanol on your hands, "medicate" yourself with a shot of Jack.

In my experience, Heet lights easier in ultra-cold weather (dog sled mushers still use it). SLX is 50/50 ethanol/methanol and is the best stove fuel.

[quasarr]

I think thru hikers prefer HEET because it is easier to find in small towns, and can be bought in a 12 oz bottle instead of a quart. Price per oz is about the same as denatured alcohol. The difference in performance will only be noticed by a dedicated "stovie."

[rmitchell]

In the field I can't tell much difference in the output or burn time of HEET or denatured. At Wally World HEET in the yellow bottle is $1.77. That works out to less than 15 cents an oz., before tax. At the hardware store a gallon of SLX is $15. That works out to over 23 cents per oz.

[Wise Old Owl]

I don't like heet as the fumes are toxic. I don't know if it's more efficient than alcohol or not but I won't use it even if it is twice as efficient because of its toxicity.

Awkward and miss-informed... feel free to PM me but I have to ask where did you read this old wifes tale? Just Curious.

Methanol burns in oxygen including open air, forming carbon dioxide and water:
2 CH₃OH + 3 O₂ → 2 CO₂ + 4 H₂O

[Wise Old Owl]

The unburned fumes are toxic. Burning any fuel can also produce some toxic by-products of partially combusted fuel (carbon monoxide, e.g.), but because I'm using these outside (not in my tent or other enclosed space), I don't worry about using either.

UH ok lets go down this thought process.. to my knowledge - Henry Ford created Kingsford which is coal dust and building material and guess what .. Pine scrap from the model A and T .. worst thing on the planet to cook with and propane ...well not much better... Kingsford was sold in the 1930's at the car dealerships... Folks we have been cooking for 100,000 years on natural wood fires... wood gas and Methanol? yea I WANT TO SEE THE SCIENCE! nobody died.


Yes I want a good argument - for 5 cents... Lucy? you are up!
http://science.discovery.com/tv-show...briquettes.htm




5cp-logo.png please understand this is not personal its the INTERNET.

[Heald]

Heet burned more efficient for me (in a Trangia stove). Though it's hard to say because I'd mix and match denatured with Heet in my fuel bottle. Whichever was available along the way would end up in my fuel container. But I really got more burn time from straight Heet I think. I never hung my head over the stove and breathed in the fumes, so I can't speak on the poisonous gas or whatnot that some people have experienced with Heet. The fact is it cooked my meals without any sort of side effects whatsoever. I probably used it to cook at least 700 meals on trail with zero ill effects.

[dla]

In the field I can't tell much difference in the output or burn time of HEET or denatured. At Wally World HEET in the yellow bottle is $1.77. That works out to less than 15 cents an oz., before tax. At the hardware store a gallon of SLX is $15. That works out to over 23 cents per oz.

That should be 11.7 cents per ounce for a gallon of slx.

[rmitchell]

Oops. MY bad, I was thinking 64 oz. but there is acutally 128 oz. in a gallon. You are correct dla.

[dustfire]

Good to know, TY!