What happen if National Parks close?

[da fungo]

Primarily its national parks that are closed.They are designated as national treasures, and are heavily staffed to protect them, as well as educate and control visitors to prevent damage to themOther areas are not as irreplaceable and so are not.

I wish I could agree with you, but officially the national forests are closed, too. The political rationale fr all closures has nothing to do with common sense, or resource protection, but in inflicting maximum discomfort on the public, for political gain. In an environment driven by those kinds of concerns, it's a good idea to know the worst that can happen to you, and to not be surprised when it happens to someone, some where.

[Namtrag]

You are only partially correct about the National Forests. While facilities are closed, the actual land and forests are open, at least in a few of them. Some of them have released press releases to that effect. While most national forests have not stated one way or another we used the precedence that, lack of any signage or evidence to the contrary, if one is open per a press release, then all are open.

[da fungo]

Well, that's true, too, apparently, while at the same time at the HQ level in DC, they've said all forests are closed to recreation.
I'm glad that some locations are showing some common sense and are not trying to prevent all use but it's sure confusing.

[rickb]

Well, that's true, too, apparently, while at the same time at the HQ level in DC, they've said all forests are closed to recreation.

Can you please provide a citation from an official source?

[Namtrag]

ASHEVILLE, N.C. – Most facilities in the national forests in North Carolina are closed due to a lapse in federal government funding.

The closure affects offices, many campgrounds, day use areas, bathrooms, shooting ranges, off-highway vehicle trails, fee areas and other facilities managed by U.S. Forest Service in the Nantahala, Pisgah, Uwharrie, and Croatan National Forests.

The following campgrounds, operated by concessionaires, will remain open.
Pisgah National Forest: Black Mountain Campground; Briar Bottom Group Camp; Carolina Hemlocks Recreation; Cove Creek Campground; Davidson River Campground; Kimsey Creek Group Campground; Kuykendall Group Campground; Lake Powhatan Recreation Area; North Mills River Recreation Area; Sunburst Recreation Area; and White Pines Group Campground.
Nantahala National Forest: Cliffside Day Use Area; Van Hook Glade Campground; and Standing Indian/Kimsey Creek/Hurricane Creek Recreation Complex.

Visitors may still hike, fish and use undeveloped recreational areas of the national forests during the closure period. No restrooms or trash collection will be available at trailheads, and visitors are encouraged to practice Leave No Trace ethics. Only essential Forest Service employees, such as firefighters, will continue working during the closure. All volunteer activities are cancelled.

[EODK9Trainer]

What's off point about letting people know what they possibly face if they chose to go into closed areas?

Agreed. Considering the topic I thought it appropriate.

[Don H]

Primarily its national parks that are closed.
They are designated as national treasures, and are heavily staffed to protect them, as well as educate and control visitors to prevent damage to them

Other areas are not as irreplaceable and so are not.

How about the ATC center in Boiling Springs, why would that be closed? Maybe because of all those federal workers needed to man it?

[rickb]

I had understood that the NPS was the managing authority for a great many trail miles OUTSIDE of the National Parks themselves and the National Forests.

[da fungo]

Can you please provide a citation from an official source?

Sure: Just go to the USFS web site.

Look, it occurs to me that two different things are being said here:

On the one hand, some federal outdoor recreation facilities - apparently more forests than parks, are at a loca level either staing open or choosing to turn a blind eye to violations of the closure.

On the other hand, at the Department level of the Government, all such facilities have been formally declared closed to the public.

Both are true. As a practical matter, no one is likely to even be challenged, let alone sanctioned if they go in the forests and parks. But people should be aware that they could be sanctioned What would you do, appear before a Federal Magistrate and invoke the White Blaze defense: I'm not guilty, your honor, because right there on White Blaze, this guy said it was okay for me to walk right past those signs and barriers and do what I want. After all, those parks and forests belong to the People. Magistrate's reply: Then let's allow you to become familiar with the people's Bureau of Prisons. They have fine recreational facilities, and the showers still work.

[rickb]

Sure: Just go to the USFS web site.
.

Do you mean here?

http://www.fs.fed.us/

If so, I don't think their words mean what you think they mean.

[HikerMom58]

Now going into the fifth day of the shutdown. It would be interesting to see if anyone has actually been arrested anywhere or fined so far just for hiking in closed areas.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/06/am...kway-barriers/

I am witnessing that the closed trail areas around here are being ignored. People are taking pics of the closure signs with a packed parking lot in the background. If someone tries to enforce the closure, all I have to say is.... good luck with that!

[Namtrag]

I am pretty surprised actually, that no large group has planned a civil disobedience outing to Yellowstone or something similar. I am not talking WW2 veterans, I am talking thousands and thousands of people going at one time and just walking in.

I am not advocating this by any means, just am surprised it hasn't happened.

[atmilkman]

Now going into the fifth day of the shutdown. It would be interesting to see if anyone has actually been arrested anywhere or fined so far just for hiking in closed areas.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/06/am...kway-barriers/

I like this part - “We’ve been told to make life as difficult for people as we can,” a park ranger told The Washington Times. “It’s disgusting.”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/06/am...#ixzz2h2fp9t6i

[Mags]

From Laurie P at the ATC:
http://trailforums.com/detail.cfm?EntryID=146604#146604

More info
National Park Service (NPS) lands are pretty much all lands not on US Forest Service lands or state parks and forests. So, in addition to the 6 NPS units the Trail passes through, south to north:Great Smoky Mountains National Park Blue Ridge Parkway (not closed because parkway is a necessary means of travel for some) Shenandoah National Park Harpers Ferry National Historical Park C&O NHP Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area (PA and NJ)
the A.T. is on a corridor of land (on average, 1000 feet wide) acquired by the NPS to provide a protected greenway for the Trail.
That includes, most significantly,
Most of northern Virginia (north of SNP) Portions of Pennsylvania north of Pine Grove Furnace Portions of New York Most of Maine
Most official A.T. maps mark NPS lands. Many other maps that show the A.T., such as state road maps and some atlases, and the A.T. Strip map, show federal and state parks and forests. Just about everything between those areas is land acquired by NPS.
ATC asks hikers to honor the closure and hike only in areas that are not affected by the closure.That being said, thru-hikers who are in Maine, are close to finishing, and have no reasonable means of skipping the lands that are closed, are not likely to encounter a ranger enforcing the closure. There are just 2 NPS rangers who oversee NPS A.T. lands outside the 6 units above.
If it seems complicated, that's because it is.

[WingedMonkey]

I like this part - “We’ve been told to make life as difficult for people as we can,” a park ranger told The Washington Times. “It’s disgusting.”

Now we are really in trouble when the Moonies don't like it.

[HooKooDooKu]

Original Question:

Hey All,
What happens if the great one's in DC can't work it out and they close the National Parks in October with the AT thru the Smokies?...

asked in the "Strait Forward" Forum

Retrospective Answer:
Apparently a huge discussion that doesn't have a snowballs chance of staying on message, staying out of politics, and avoiding discussions about breaking the law.

[Another Kevin]

From Laurie P at the ATC:
http://trailforums.com/detail.cfm?EntryID=146604#146604
(... snip ...)

Thanks for confirming, Mags, what I supposed in my other post. I had detailed data on government land ownership for the three states I was working with, and I've been able to give a much finer-grained discussion of where the closed NPS lands are.

Notes:

• The NPS land ownership is typically not posted!
• The state forests frequently don't come all the way to the highway, with the result that the NPS owns a few hundred feet of trail at the road crossings.
• The closure may give the local gendarmerie in "hiker-hostile" communities an opportunity to hassle hiker trash, even in the absence of Federal officers to enforce the closure. I've not heard of this happening yet.

(Sorry to add this to "Straight Forward" - further followups to this should be directed to the other thread!)

[TheYoungOne]

While the closing of parking lots and access road ate a PITA to section and day hikers, anyone know if any of the SOBO thru hikers were turned away yet and unable to complete their hike because of this shutdown? To have years of prep, thousands of dollars spent and miles walked, to be turned away when your almost done would suck.

[Don H]

I talked with several SOBOs at Paul Wolf shelter just south of Rockfish Gap on 10/2 who had been told by SNP rangers to get out of the park by noon or be arrested for trespassing. They missed the last 20 miles of SNP. They said several others were in Waynesboro taking a zero and deciding what to do after having to leave the park. All were concerned about GSMNP access.

[max patch]

I talked with several SOBOs at Paul Wolf shelter just south of Rockfish Gap on 10/2 who had been told by SNP rangers to get out of the park by noon or be arrested for trespassing. They missed the last 20 miles of SNP. They said several others were in Waynesboro taking a zero and deciding what to do after having to leave the park. All were concerned about GSMNP access.

The shut down will be a non issue by the time they get to the GSMNP.