Opinion of Car Campers Using Shelters?

[Fairway]

Well First of all, I didnt come up with it. Its called 7 rules of LNT. And I was prepared and planned becasue I brought a tent, If you would read the thread I stated that. And I was considerate of the man of whom I asked for water so kick rocks

Cool, I thought that list looked familiar. Its nice to think that planning ahead and being prepared, means simply bringing a tent. I was worried I'd have to be concerned with things like water management, having a plan B, and generally being flexible on my up coming hike next week. Also, its great to know being considerate only extends to asking permission for something you've already taken. Man this hiking thing seems so fool proof. I'll go back to kicking rocks now.

[kayak karl]

[QUOTE=Rasty;1806267]

You and I might not call them hikers for walking .2 miles but they might consider that hiking. Once they've considered themselves hikers then they are now hikers. There isn't a test or permit to be a hiker.

concidering some of the "Hikers" i have met or read posts from i avoid being called a hiker, as not to be associated with this group called "Hikers". no wonder LW says he's a walker.

[OzJacko]

For some people, walking half a mile is a major achievement.
I am amazed that someone who is out for two nights considers themselves more "entitled" than someone out for one night.
Come to think of it I am amazed that some who are out for 150 nights think themselves more "entitled" than someone out for one night.

[FarmerChef]

No crime no fowl - why on earth would you call 911?

It depends on the situation. Here in VA (afaik) open carry is permitted. I don't think twice when I see an open carry usually. Like LW said, I'm perfectly comfortable with that. But if the person with the gun gives me that sixth-sense shiver down the back of your spine and something doesn't seem right that is the time I might call the police. Otherwise, I'd just find a place to tent and call it all good.

[Another Kevin]

Hikers could never arrive making the shelter unused

Been there, done that. I remember one spring night that my daughter and I were part of a group of 6-8 tents - separate parties - surrounding a shelter. Everyone was saying to all the others things like, "if you want the shelter, take it! I'm just using it as a place to eat dinner out of the sleet!" Everyone that was out that day decided that his/her tent was warmer, so we wound up with a tent city and an empty shelter.

[HikerMom58]

It depends on the situation. Here in VA (afaik) open carry is permitted. I don't think twice when I see an open carry usually. Like LW said, I'm perfectly comfortable with that. But if the person with the gun gives me that sixth-sense shiver down the back of your spine and something doesn't seem right that is the time I might call the police. Otherwise, I'd just find a place to tent and call it all good.

I'll never forget the first time I saw someone open carry. It was about a year ago. I was in the grocery store. I live in VA. It gave me a funny feeling just b/c I'm not used to seeing it. I had to process a lot of feelings that day. :>) I'm sure I would process the same feelings again if I came into a shelter seeing the same thing. I love tenting!!!

[Another Kevin]

[QUOTE=Just Bill;1806291]

When I teach folks how to backpack their first trip is exactly what you describe- around here we call them walk in sites. You park at the parking lot and walk 1/10 to 1/2 mile into your site. That's it. For most of these folks it's the greatest trip of their lives.
Upon returning to their car the following day they very proudly call themselves BACKPACKERS! And so do I.

I'd probably rather see them out there than a shelter full of thru's dumping trash and crying their way down the trail. If anything I would be more inclined to forgive the beginners mistakes and look down on "experienced" hikers who complain about it.

This post made me want to stand up and cheer in so many ways.

...I teach folks how to backpack... How many of the complainers ever lift a finger to help a newbie? And yet, if we don't bring people in, the owners of our forests will start to see them as 'underutilized' and think of other things to do with them.

...For most of these folks it's the greatest trip of their lives... Anyone else here remember their first actual backpack into the woods, staying off road, not renting a space at a campground? Have all the complainers forgotten when they got bit by the bug themselves? Also - you're making sure that they have a good time on their first trip. My daughter had an atrocious guide on her first trip (with a summer camp, not with me) and it put her off backpacking for about five years. When she finally agreed to come along on a trip with me, we had a great time - and she even said that she was surprised it could be fun!

Upon returning to their car the following day they very proudly call themselves BACKPACKERS! And so do I. And so they are! The jump from being a 'frontcountry' camper to actually carrying your own gear and sleeping on the trail is a huge one. It's a much bigger difference than anything you get from upping the mileage, ranging farther on the trail, climbing higher, learning more LNT behaviour and trail etiquette, and so on. The only other developmental steps that are really even comparable are 'first time leading/first solo', 'first bushwhack', 'first overnight in deep winter', and just maybe 'first long section hike/thru-hike.' (I can't comment on the last: I'm a clueless weekender and never done more than a ten-day section, with two town stops, in my life.) You've just converted them from Joe/Jane Sixpack with their generator and TV at the campground to Joe/Jane Backpacker, who have a lot to learn but who have learnt the first important lesson: get out there!

If anything I would be more inclined to forgive the beginners mistakes and look down on "experienced" hikers who complain about it. 'Ignorant' is curable. 'Intolerant' and 'arrogant' seem to last forever, alas!

Bravo, JB! If I hadn't been a fan of yours already, I'd be one now.

[CB1821]

It depends on the situation. Here in VA (afaik) open carry is permitted. I don't think twice when I see an open carry usually. Like LW said, I'm perfectly comfortable with that.

I am not taking issue with you or LW’s comfort level around people that open carry, and there is perhaps some value to knowing that someone is armed; however, I personally wonder about the mental state of a person that feels it necessary to open carry when with a permit you can carry concealed.

As is evident in WB threads dealing with guns, many people are very uncomfortable just having them around them, much less having someone that is not obviously LE walking around with a gun strapped to their belt (Shmaybix’s response is an example).

The question that always goes through my mind under these circumstances is why would anyone want to make others uncomfortable/fearful and/or draw attention to themselves (because that is what it does)?

It is probably the case that a good portion of people that feel compelled to open carry have some self-esteem/aggression issues that make for potentially dangerous situations (my opinion and perhaps wrong). I suspect that the person the OP encountered (with gun, knife, and aggressive dog) is just an extreme example of this.

Or perhaps the person that is open carrying either could not qualify for and/or pass the conceal carry requirements, which makes me even more wary in such encounters.

FWIW, I am not anti-gun, having been in both the military and LE and currently a CCW permit holder.

[max patch]

I think its strange that people who don't care about someone carrying concealed have a problem when the weapon is clearly displayed. I'm sure there is a lesson here but I don't know what it is. Ignorance is bliss?

If someone feels the need to carry in the woods personally I'd prefer that it be out in the open. I prefer to know who I'm dealing with.

[Gonecampn]

Shelters are first come, first served. Having an armed person tell me that the shelter is full -- well, he wouldn't have to tell me twice, anyway.

+1

Sent from somewhere in the woods.

[tdoczi]

[QUOTE=Just Bill;1806291]

When I teach folks how to backpack their first trip is exactly what you describe- around here we call them walk in sites. You park at the parking lot and walk 1/10 to 1/2 mile into your site. That's it. For most of these folks it's the greatest trip of their lives.
Upon returning to their car the following day they very proudly call themselves BACKPACKERS! And so do I.

I'd probably rather see them out there than a shelter full of thru's dumping trash and crying their way down the trail. If anything I would be more inclined to forgive the beginners mistakes and look down on "experienced" hikers who complain about it.

if it is legitimately a very short overnight hike then thats fine. im talking about people who plop themselves down and sit there for days like theyve rented a cabin in the woods. that is clearly NOT what the shelter is for.

[CB1821]

I think its strange that people who don't care about someone carrying concealed have a problem when the weapon is clearly displayed. I'm sure there is a lesson here but I don't know what it is. Ignorance is bliss?

I guess I look at it as open carry is avenue of expression for someone that feels compelled to make a “statement” or is (perhaps) edging the line towards paranoid schizophrenia/personality disorder. That statement (or mental condition) and the driving force behind it is what I feel uncomfortable about.

I am more comfortable with someone that has decided that having a concealed weapon is an appropriate response to some perceived threat. First of all, if they are carrying legally, then I know that they had to meet the following criteria (at least in NC):

• has successfully completed an approved firearms safety and training course which involves the actual firing of handguns and instruction in the law governing the carrying of a concealed handgun and the use of deadly force;
• is not ineligible under federal or state law to possess, receive, or own a firearm;
• is not currently or has not been adjudicated or administratively determined to be lacking mental capacity or mentally ill;
• has not been discharged from the armed forces under conditions other than honorable;
• is or has not been adjudicated guilty or judgment continued or suspended sentence for a violent misdemeanor;
• has not had judgment continued for or free on bond or personal recognizance pending trial, appeal, or sentencing for a disqualifying criminal offense;
• has not been convicted of an impaired driving offense within three years prior to the date on which the application is submitted.

The person that is open carrying has not had to undergo such screening.
Although I have never carried when I was hiking (I will say that I considered carrying when I first started hiking with my son, and if his mother had insisted I would have), I don’t take issue with someone that has come to the personal conclusion that the probability of needing to protect themselves and/or family members (be it from people with ill intent, vicious dogs, other animals, the guy in the OP’s story – or whatever) outweighs the negatives (weight, responsibility, etc…) and is carrying legally.
I might think that the only thing that I will ever encounter while backpacking are” unicorns pooping skittles and rainbows” , but I am not going to judge someone that feels differently and wants to have options in case they encounter something different.
I don’t think this has anything to do with wanting to be “blissfully ignorant”.

[max patch]

Seems to me that if someone can not legally own a gun that are more apt to keep said gun hidden rather that carrying it openly on their hip.

[Jack Tarlin]

This has been said many times before, but it bears remembering: The simple expedient when it comes to dealing with the various unpleasantnesses that may occur at shelters is to avoid staying in them.

[MDSection12]

It depends on the situation. Here in VA (afaik) open carry is permitted. I don't think twice when I see an open carry usually. Like LW said, I'm perfectly comfortable with that. But if the person with the gun gives me that sixth-sense shiver down the back of your spine and something doesn't seem right that is the time I might call the police. Otherwise, I'd just find a place to tent and call it all good.

Open carry is not legal in MD, and CCWs are near impossible to get. It's almost certain that this guy was illegally carrying. I don't know that I'd bother calling, because I think I understand his reasoning despite not agreeing with it, but I'd you did he'd have to explain himself and probably take a ride.

[aficion]

Open carry is not legal in MD, and CCWs are near impossible to get. It's almost certain that this guy was illegally carrying. I don't know that I'd bother calling, because I think I understand his reasoning despite not agreeing with it, but I'd you did he'd have to explain himself and probably take a ride.

Wonder what would happen if you just walked up to the shelter, sat down on the steps, and started dialing? If open carry is illegal in MD and someone is commandeering public property by displaying a weapon and brandishing a mean dog, sure the obvious thing to do is just walk on and forget it. My sense though is that it should be reported at least. Someone coming along after you could get hurt or worse. Bad actors need to be sensibly and appropriately confronted.

[Odd Man Out]

...The jump from being a 'frontcountry' camper to actually carrying your own gear and sleeping on the trail is a huge one. It's a much bigger difference than anything you get from upping the mileage, ranging farther on the trail...

I believe this to be true. Every NP I've been too has made it clear that to avoid the crowds, you need to get off the road. But you don't really have to get very far. Just a few hundred yards will in most cases make all the difference. Even at a developed campground, the walk-in sites are usually available.

If anything I would be more inclined to forgive the beginners mistakes and look down on "experienced" hikers who complain about it. 'Ignorant' is curable. 'Intolerant' and 'arrogant' seem to last forever, alas! ...

+1. I agree with this. However, it presumes that an novice wants to be educated. I'm not convinced that is the case in the situation as it was described.

[CB1821]

Seems to me that if someone can not legally own a gun that are more apt to keep said gun hidden rather that carrying it openly on their hip.

I agree, but we’re not talking about illegal possession of a gun.

This has to do with how much assurance do we have that a person in “legal” possession of a gun in public has undergone some process that was designed to ensure that the person knows how to safely use/carry the weapon, knows the laws pertaining to the use of deadly force, and does not have any mental or criminal factors that would indicate that they would be at risk for using the firearm in an illegal way.

First – the requirements for purchasing a handgun is less stringent than getting a CCW license in NC. So even if you own the gun legally, the only thing that ensures is that you “passed” a background check. It does not mean that you have any knowledge or competence to safely carry it around other people.

In addition, “North Carolina requires a background check and a permit to purchase a handgun. However, you may openly carry a weapon without having obtained a permit”.

I took a look at the statues pertaining to open carry and handgun purchasing, and nowhere can I find that you could not use a gun that you owned prior to the permit purchase requirement, brought with you when you moved from another state, or that you simply cannot just borrow one (I am less sure on this point, but it seems to be correct). You just need a permit to purchase one.

So in some circumstances, the person parading around the streets (or in the back woods) may have not even undergone a background check.

[Likeapuma]

I'd have no problem with a legal gun owner open carrying, but him threatening people gives a black eye to all responsible owners. Add the aggressive dog to that, & he's just trouble waiting to happen... He obviously wasn't hugged enough or needs, ahem, "enhancement supplements".

Not all open carriers are troublemakers. Yes, they do it to gain attention... To the fact that it IS legal (in certain states) . And probably also because it's much more comfortable than concealed carry in their waistband.

[Hill Ape]

personally I think the original story sounds a little too perfect, especially when placed next to the posters water stealing thread. my biggest question, how long can I keep cheese in my backpack before it spoils?