..and biased in favor of segments of the food industry....
Only two things I put salt on at the table, eggs, and watermellon. Niether of which I plan to give up.
Let me be clear. I don't argue that much of what you say about the food industry is true. However, the best way to combat that is thru education. It is not best to be telling people that they have been made addicted by the food industry. Yes the foods do have too much added things, such as sugar, salt..., but how are you going to change that?Originally Posted by Dogwood
I say thru education. You seem to be saying thru Govt. Good luck with that.
BTW, I'm perfectly fine with common sense govt regulations, don't try and apply the anti-govt label on me. I am the govt. I just know it's not the answer for everything, just as the free market is a great thing and very much what makes us great, but it also is not the answer to everything.
P.S. Addiction is a powerful thing, we shouldn't cheapen it by saying a food is addictive. I love, love, love my glazed doughnuts, but trust me, I'm not addicted. The decision to add salt and pepper to eggs is not an addiction
Interesting link. My problem, though, is that every time I think I know what it takes to eat healthy, something crazy comes to light. Things like the diet of the tarahumara http://www.runnersworld.com/other-vo...ugh-to-swallow
And now you got the Fruitarian movement. These people eat only fruit, not veggies, just fruit. And some of them seems to be thriving. See here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irjr1OjCkRQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2E346ctf1k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KE5Z1gKiD1s
BTW, those videos are about Mike Arnstein, not only is he an avid Fruitarian, but he's also a ultramarathon runner. The one drawback I see, though, is that these people need to eat tons and tons of fruit per day.
Carbs are what make most of us fat or overweight. Try a carb-free diet for a while (not easy to do!) and you will have a whole new outlook on what's offered in a typical supermarket. 90% of what's being offered is off-limits. Any form of bread, pasta, rice, corn, sugar, grain, cereal -- out the window.
What you're left with is meat, green veggies, fruits, dairy, nuts -- and not too much fruit either, because they have carbs in the form of sugar. OTOH, hikers will be pleased to note that bacon is not a carb.
Yes. For me this is what works. I've been active all of my life with hiking, kayaking, biking etc... yet slowly as the years went I kept on gaining weight. The reason is that as we get older our bodies have a harder time processing sugar. At best we just turn sugar into fat and at worst we get Diabetes which will kill us , eventually.
Tried a few ideas and everything failed in the long term until I severely reduced anything that turns into sugar after you consume it. When I say severely reduced, I mean it is REALLY hard to eliminate it altogether and it might not even be the healthiest choice. Sometimes I walk into a gas station for a quick snack and drink and literally EVERYTHING in there has carbs/sugar.
I started with the low carb approach sometimes in May and by now (October) I dropped a few sizes down, dropped 6 notches on my belt...I have not weighed myself yet (superstition) but I will be weighed at my annual physical next week. My guess is that I have dropped from 265lbs to about 220 lbs.
Also the idea of eating breakfast needs to be revamped. If you come home at 6pm and do nothing to burn all the food you eat at diner then why would you NEED to stuff your stomach in the morning? You should wait until you burn calories and eat on empty stomach around lunch time.
My usual meals are variations of salad and meat, full fat yogurt with cashews and berries, coffee with cream, milk, cheese, salami, smoked fish, sardines...
say NO to: rice, potatoes, bread, sugar, honey, sweet fruits, wine, beer ...
I substitute nuts for bread. I would drop cashews into tomato soup, eat nuts with cheese and salami etc...
Once in a while I break the rule for one day... it actually helps both ways...makes me happy and speeds my metabolism ...temporarily
I did start by saying that I have always been active. What I mean by this is that I am REALLY active. Active enough that those who promote exercise without low carb diet would be happy with me. For my body (the way my body processes sugar) this has never been enough. Every weekend I hike or bike or ski or seakayak on advanced trips burning at least 10000 calories per day. I bike to work at least 4 times per week (30 miles round trip), I walk during lunch time or bike during lunch time. Lately I started running - amazing - I could never do it before but the loss of weight has made it possible.
Let me go
The problem is that most of these fads are not based on sound research. Also, even when there is good research, it is often misinterpreted or misrepresented. For example.
1. There is good research that food X is good for you so I should be eating a lot of food X.
2. There is good research that food X is good for you so I have to eat food X.
In the first case, the flawed assumption is that more is better. With nutrition, too much of a good thing is not a good thing. Focusing on one food tends to detract from a balanced diet. In the second case, the flawed assumption that only food X can provide the observed benefits. There are lots of healthy foods and you don't need to seek out the most obscure concoction from Central American runners to make you a good runner. Both of these logic flaws are fed by what I think is the worst term in all of nutrition - "superfood". Anytime I hear that (especially form Dr. Oz), I run away as fast as possible.
I read another article a while back from another good science-based nutrition source (can't find it now, alas). They surveyed lots of valid nutrition information and looked for similarities. From what I recall, they came up with a pretty simple list of things to do. Eat a balance diet. Eat a colorful diet. Eat real foods. Don't be afraid of food. If you are overweight, eat less, eat better, and live a more active lifestyle.
As for advice to avoid, there is a nice article in the Tufts University Health and Nutrition Newsletter (March 2015) that lists 10 Red Flags of Misleading Nutrition Claims. All of these really resonated with me. They say you should run away from recommendations that: promise a quick fix, give dire warnings about a single product or regime, sound too good to be true, draw simplistic conclusions from a complex study, are based on a single study, have statements refuted by reputable scientific organizations, list "good" and "bad" foods, that are made to help sell a product (I maybe would have listed this one FIRST!), are based on studies not peer reviewed, are fom studies that ignore differences among individuals or groups.
Excellent post Odd Man Out, and not only does it apply to food, but to all that business would have us believe we need.
...think for your selves people's, or someone will do it for you.
Yes, it's an excellent post and I totally agree with it and much of it I've said in past threads/posts. However, there is one problem....Facts.
The youtube links I posted was about an ultramarathon runner that claims to live on nothing but fruits and has been for years. He shouldn't be able to do what he does on this diet.
I'm one of the most skeptical persons out there and normally I don't believe crap. However, when things appear to counter my views I will reconsider my position. This is one of those cases. Again look at this guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opvYWnG2TQA
Now, maybe he's lying about his food intake, but I'm inclined to believe him and so it makes me wonder. Is this guy just a freak of nature? Maybe, but these are the things that interest me, things that challenge our views.
BTW, I'm not considering starting this diet or changing what I do, just curious...
Let me be clear. I don't argue that much of what you say about the food industry is true. However, the best way to combat that is thru education. It is not best to be telling people that they have been made addicted by the food industry. Yes the foods do have too much added things, such as sugar, salt..., but how are you going to change that?
I say thru education. You seem to be saying thru Govt. Good luck with that.
BTW, I'm perfectly fine with common sense govt regulations, don't try and apply the anti-govt label on me. I am the govt. I just know it's not the answer for everything, just as the free market is a great thing and very much what makes us great, but it also is not the answer to everything.
P.S. Addiction is a powerful thing, we shouldn't cheapen it by saying a food is addictive. I love, love, love my glazed doughnuts, but trust me, I'm not addicted. The decision to add salt and pepper to eggs is not an addiction
I thought I made it clear that the food industry and gov't entities are complicit. You got the wrong idea that I suggested anywhere gov't is "the answer." I'm a Reaganite. I don't believe more gov't is the answer to solve all of societies, or my, problems.
On that note, although it's often a loudly heralded fall back claim that education is the answer, it is not always "the answer." Right education can be part of the answers though. I prefer to use the words knowledge, and specifically wisdom, in place of education though.
Some of the most educated and knowledgeable people I've ever encountered knowing the destructiveness of nicotine are the addicted nicotine/tobacco users themselves. Where, it seems to me these highly educated folks lack, is in applying their "education" ...umm, wisdom.
My friend, I agree addiction is powerful. But it comes in different forms. Addiction doesn't just involve substance abuse but also compulsive behavior. Addiction can be physical, psychological, both, and fall under several other categories. Food ABSOLUTELY can be the focus of addiction...just as chocolate, soda, overeating, gambling, sex, shopping, adrenaline, alcohol, illicit drugs, legal drugs, exercise, work, internet, etc all can be. *There definitely is an attempt by the Food Industry to emotionally or psychologically addict the public to certain food products...in several aspects 1) by the compounds added to the food 2) marketing 3) through the refining and processing of food into food like products. Let us not forget that "food' also changes body and brain chemistry in KNOWN ways. So, there can be a physiological addictive and habituating component to highly refined highly processed foods. That's what refined processed means...having the ability to alter or tweak food into food like products with specific goals in mind....like increased profit...through instilling addictive and habitual behaviors and preferences in consumers.
Let's not muddle habits and addictions. You describing your glazed donut and pepper/salt on eggs consumption sounds like a habit not an addiction...it's a choice you make. If you wanted to stop you likely could.
Let's get back to your original question; I believe it's an excellent question: "Yes the foods do have too much added things, such as sugar, salt..., but how are you going to change that? First, and I've said this MANY times previously, ALL food is not highly refined highly processed with significant amounts of added sugar, salt, artificial sweeteners, preservatives, carcinogenic additives and colorings, like MSG, that is not only a flavor enhancer, but also interferes with brain chemistry that tells your brain you are satiated(so you keep eating MORE MORE MORE), etc.
Yes, after wading through a mountain of nutritional and dietary information and misinformation, consumers are shaping the food markets! You're seeing MORE INFORMED CONSUMERS opting for locally/regionally grown foods, switching to Organic WHOLE FOODS, moving away from highly refined highly processed food like products, local Farmer's Markets/Food Co-Ops on the rise, etc. Even, of all places, WalMart is answering the desires of consumers for healthier food that is not so refined processed, Non-GMO, and Organic. Krogers and Publix are increasing their selections of WHOLE FOOD ORGANIC products where consumers don't need a chemistry degree to understand what they are eating and drinking. Consumers are informing themselves. They are seeing the shady practices in the industrialized factory food industry they wish to keep hidden as they attempt to march onward to having control of food monopolies.
...oh, and somethin' called a Salted Carmel Mocha, oh em Jee.
If it sounds so crazy to you why all the fuss you give it. These are extreme situations, extreme dietary approaches, and individuals involved in extreme activities using ingredients that might be regionally more available. Everyone does not need to go to these extremes overall. How about just considering aspects of these approaches and apply them individually to your own diet rather than looking at the entirety of these ideas as wrong or right?
Heck, I always have nutritious rather inexpensive chia seed(SABA) and an assortment of fresh fruit in the house. They have some excellent nutritional properties. It doesn't mean I'm going to subsist on pinole/chia drinks or only fruit.
[QUOTE=Another Kevin;2007898]I seldom add salt to eggs. Pepper is another story, but I haven't heard a lot about pepper's being harmful. I'm sure there's some study out there, because you can find a study condemning everything.
Moderation in all things. Including moderation.[/QUOTE
Good news,Kevin.I read somewhere that pepper helps prevent cancer.I add it to every thing,but mostly because I like the taste.For anyone who wants to know,I never said salt was addictive but,yes,I believe sugar is because it causes cravings once the levels of blood sugar spike and "crash".Not in the sense that illegal drugs are addictive,but addictive nonetheless.Salt is something I likely use a little too much of but since it is not added to anything my wife cooks,I am left to my own devices.Lastly,the tastiest additive I have tried lately is something called Sriracha Sauce.Not addictive,but still pretty awesome!
What many find especially insidious is the nutritional "education" you so highly tout, and is tainted with influencing biases of the food industry, including public information offered and demanded be adhered to through gov't nutritional programs, which according to some very informed scientists, is more an instilling and indoctrination of the concepts and information the food industry only wants the public exposed to, is occurring at increasingly very young ages. The brain washing and marketing programming of food like products to instill habitual and ADDICTIVE responses to ever younger consumers is a whole study in itself revealing the deceptive and unethical practices of the food industry.
Children in public schools are taught and habituated, THEY ARE PROGRAMMED, to sugary drinks, associations with fast food chains(Yaco Bell, Pizzaz Hut, Mickey Dees, etc ), highly processed highly refined food like products, etc. While at the same eating whole foods as a primary staple of the diet are subtly frowned upon as being inconvenient, too time consuming to eat and prepare, too expensive, etc. And, also at a time when bought gov't entities further pave the way for greater control by segments of the already massively powerful and influential food industry.
And, yet, we still have posters speaking of free choice as if our food choices haven't been heavily influenced starting at a the youngest of ages.
Are we actually still debating if sugar is addictive? As far as I'm aware that was proven to be true decades ago.
Here is the first result from googling "is sugar addictive?"
http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2015/01/0...ealth-research“When you look at animal studies comparing sugar to cocaine,” DiNicolantonio told Here & Now’s Lisa Mullins, “even when you get the rats hooked on IV cocaine, once you introduce sugar, almost all of them switch to the sugar.”
Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.
Please enlighten this feeble northerner how do you use salt on watermellon. I am fond of watermelon but never used salt on it. :-)
Let me go
So why exactly are we worried about salt? And in Authority Nutrition's top 20 list of nutrition myths, the "low fat" myth was #1 and the "low sodium" myth was #2
http://authoritynutrition.com/how-much-sodium-per-day/
http://authoritynutrition.com/20-mai...yths-debunked/
And btw, myth #4 is one of my personal pet peeves. I could scream ever time I go to a restaurant and see something made with egg whites on their heart healthy menu. ARRRGGGGHHHH.
I like a lot about this site but take those two pts of contention in the limited context of their propositions.
And, I hope you noticed their panel is saying what I have repeatedly...eat REAL food...avoid highly processed highly refined food like products. If you want to know more specifically what this site means by REAL FOOD link to their 4 Meal Plans For Diets that are Supported by Science. Their real food lists don't include Pop Tarts, Snickers, Cheese Wiz, candy, Maruchan Ramen, Twizzlers, Little Debbies, packaged meals/foods, etc. They have purposefully kept things simple...they have given the broad brush strokes and simple enough to also go deeper if you so desire.
Well give a try, just a little sprinkle all around...I like it anyway.
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