Opinion Poll

[mak1277]

So are you saying it's all or nothing? I realize that when I hike on the AT, I will not be surrounded by nature without a human trace. So I accept the things that aren't "natural" and use them for the purpose intended. I don't get upset over the graffiti on or in the shelters. Would I prefer not see to see it? Sure. Do I enjoy some of it, sometimes, Sure. It's not black & white with me.

It is heartbreaking for me, however, to see something "natural" defaced.

You and I are pretty much in agreement. What you just wrote is basically how I feel as well.

I just object to the reasoning many in this thread have used for their position against graffiti because I agree it's not black and white. You can't argue LNT when the shelter itself is a violation of LNT premises. It comes down to a personal, subjective opinion. For me personally it's neither offensive nor a violation of any moral/ethical position.

[HikerMom58]

You and I are pretty much in agreement. What you just wrote is basically how I feel as well.

I just object to the reasoning many in this thread have used for their position against graffiti because I agree it's not black and white. You can't argue LNT when the shelter itself is a violation of LNT premises. It comes down to a personal, subjective opinion. For me personally it's neither offensive nor a violation of any moral/ethical position.

I agree...

[max patch]

I just object to the reasoning many in this thread have used for their position against graffiti because I agree it's not black and white. You can't argue LNT when the shelter itself is a violation of LNT premises

You may not have that opinion if you ever saw the Whitley Gap Shelter in GA 5ish years ago when it was totally covered in graffiti. It looked like the graffiti you see written on walls in downtown urban areas. It has since been repainted brown and now pretty much blends in with the surroundings.

[squeezebox]

Leave no trace !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And there's a log book to sign and leave messages in.

[Spirit Walker]

It's not okay, ever, unless the walls are about to be painted over.

When I thruhiked, there was a family that came to a shelter in the Smokies. They had more people than reservations, so ended up camping outside. The kids looked up at the graffiti and one said something about it to their mother. Mother said, "You can add your names later." Then one of the kids said, "Oh look, that word is misspelled." My response was to say, "Yes, that is the kind of idiot who thinks it's okay to vandalize shelters." Mom didn't like me much. They never did get a chance to write on the walls while I was there.

[aficion]

It's not okay, ever, unless the walls are about to be painted over.

When I thruhiked, there was a family that came to a shelter in the Smokies. They had more people than reservations, so ended up camping outside. The kids looked up at the graffiti and one said something about it to their mother. Mother said, "You can add your names later." Then one of the kids said, "Oh look, that word is misspelled." My response was to say, "Yes, that is the kind of idiot who thinks it's okay to vandalize shelters." Mom didn't like me much. They never did get a chance to write on the walls while I was there.

Good for you. How this is a gray area for anyone blows me away. It's like saying "because theft happens regularly it doesn't bother me. Sometimes there is a funny story involved that makes me laugh." Defacing property that is not one's own is just plain wrong and should not be excused. Period.

[Astro]

It's not okay, ever, unless the walls are about to be painted over.

When I thruhiked, there was a family that came to a shelter in the Smokies. They had more people than reservations, so ended up camping outside. The kids looked up at the graffiti and one said something about it to their mother. Mother said, "You can add your names later." Then one of the kids said, "Oh look, that word is misspelled." My response was to say, "Yes, that is the kind of idiot who thinks it's okay to vandalize shelters." Mom didn't like me much. They never did get a chance to write on the walls while I was there.

Spirit Walker, I am with Aficion on this one. Appreciate that you there and willing to say something and prevent it from happening.

[BabySue]

What about burning a ring on the picnic table by using a stove on it? OK or not OK?

[aficion]

What about burning a ring on the picnic table by using a stove on it? OK or not OK?

Depends. Was it an accident? Was anything learned?

[Sarcasm the elf]

What about burning a ring on the picnic table by using a stove on it? OK or not OK?

Not much of an issue either way, when was the last time you saw someone using a whitegas stove on the A.T.?

[bfayer]

What about burning a ring on the picnic table by using a stove on it? OK or not OK?

Not Ok if it happened because of negligence or on purpose. If it happened by accident and the person learns from it, it's still not ok, but much more forgivable.

I have yet to see someone accidentally carve their name into a shelter or write on the wall with a sharpie.

From my point of view this is not about LNT, or what is natural or what is not, if that were the case I wouldn't care if someone spray painted the side of the bank where I keep my money. This is about respecting others and the property of others. It is never Ok to deface property that does not belong to you.

There is not one standard of respect on the trail and another off the trail.

[mak1277]

From my point of view this is not about LNT, or what is natural or what is not, if that were the case I wouldn't care if someone spray painted the side of the bank where I keep my money. This is about respecting others and the property of others. It is never Ok to deface property that does not belong to you.

There is not one standard of respect on the trail and another off the trail.

This kind of goes back to my original question...who owns the shelters?

If someone was defacing MY property, I would care. But I sure wouldn't care if someone was spray painting the side of MY bank. I wish I had enough time and energy to worry about stuff like that. I just don't understand the moral outrage here.

[Astro]

This kind of goes back to my original question...who owns the shelters?

If someone was defacing MY property, I would care. But I sure wouldn't care if someone was spray painting the side of MY bank. I wish I had enough time and energy to worry about stuff like that. I just don't understand the moral outrage here.

Well the people defacing them definitely do NOT own them! It is still a crime to destroy another person's property even if it is in the woods (and the law breakers are not prosecuted). The problem is YOU SHOULD CARE if someone is spray painting on your (or any other) bank. I strongly recommend you go back an read Rocket Socks post about the broken window theory.

[bfayer]

This kind of goes back to my original question...who owns the shelters?

If someone was defacing MY property, I would care. But I sure wouldn't care if someone was spray painting the side of MY bank. I wish I had enough time and energy to worry about stuff like that. I just don't understand the moral outrage here.

It doesn't matter who owns the shelters. At what point do you start caring? Can someone spray paint your car? What about your mother's car? Who about your best friends car? At what point does your objection to defacing property begin and end? Is it OK for someone to steal from someone else but not from you?

If its not OK for someone to do it to your property, then its not OK to do to someone else's.

I can not imagine living in such a self centered world where I only cared about people doing bad things to me and my property but not to others.

[HikerMom58]

Not Ok if it happened because of negligence or on purpose. If it happened by accident and the person learns from it, it's still not ok, but much more forgivable.

I have yet to see someone accidentally carve their name into a shelter or write on the wall with a sharpie.

From my point of view this is not about LNT, or what is natural or what is not, if that were the case I wouldn't care if someone spray painted the side of the bank where I keep my money. This is about respecting others and the property of others. It is never Ok to deface property that does not belong to you.

There is not one standard of respect on the trail and another off the trail.

That is very true, there isn't. It has everything to do with respect.

What people do in the woods with sharpies etc.. is out of my/our control. In the end, it doesn't matter what I think about it. It happens. If I could be part of a plan that would prevent others from continuing to do this, I would jump in with both feet. If I saw it happening in front of me, I would speak up. Other than that, I try not to stress about it.

[mak1277]

My point about the ownership of the shelters is that I don't think anyone owns them. I acknowledge that I may be uninformed, and would like enlightenment in this case.

If something belongs to no-one, then doesn't it belong to everyone, equally? In which case the people writing on the shelter walls have as much right to do that as you do to be offended by it.

[mak1277]

Well the people defacing them definitely do NOT own them! It is still a crime to destroy another person's property even if it is in the woods (and the law breakers are not prosecuted). The problem is YOU SHOULD CARE if someone is spray painting on your (or any other) bank. I strongly recommend you go back an read Rocket Socks post about the broken window theory.

Based on your sig, I am assuming you're a Christian. I am too. I know I have plenty of my own sins to deal with before I start judging others on whether or not they right on shelter walls, or steal, or whatever. I'm not saying I think any of this is RIGHT....I'm just saying I'm not in a position to start moralizing about it.

[mak1277]

Based on your sig, I am assuming you're a Christian. I am too. I know I have plenty of my own sins to deal with before I start judging others on whether or not they right on shelter walls, or steal, or whatever. I'm not saying I think any of this is RIGHT....I'm just saying I'm not in a position to start moralizing about it.

*write*

apparently I can't type/spell correctly either.

[RCBear]

I think it is a tasteless act. Of course, I also think that trail shelters are tasteless and would love to see them removed altogether. Just my opinion.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 2 using Tapatalk 2

[Coffee]

If something belongs to no-one, then doesn't it belong to everyone, equally? In which case the people writing on the shelter walls have as much right to do that as you do to be offended by it.

The AT is a national scenic trail which would indicate that structures within the corridor are owned by the national park service. In theory all public lands are owned by all of us although what we can do on those lands is obviously heavily regulated.