is there anyone out there that doesnt care about super light hiking?

[Nyte]

I am just glad I hike where there are not all these people sitting around a shelter arguing about how they won't help ultra liters who don't pack jetboil..or whatever nonsense is being talked about.

Right? If I have a stove, and someone needs hot water, I'm not turning them away unless it jeopardizes me. Since I carry a small wood burner, usually not an issue. I might rib em some for the decision to not have a stove when they have food that needs it, however.

[Cookerhiker]

Not a thruhiker so I guess my response doesn't count but I'm not a gram weenie. Lighter is nicer and I pack lighter than 30 years ago for the simple reason that all gear has gotten lighter.

[Nodust]

I have no problem with ultralight hikers at all, and I have no problem heating up water in my Jetboil to help them out, or sharing my water. I am a weekend section hiker however and have more fuel than I normally need and I always carry extra water.

Typical situations I have run into with ultralight hikers is:

1. They either run out of alcohol for their stove or are almost out and need hot water for their noodles.

2. They run out of water on a hot dry section of the trail because they only carry enough to get to the next water source (which is further than they expected).

As it has been said on here more than once, their is a fine line between ultralight and stupid light..

If anyone is going UL and underprepared shame on them. The goal is to carry what you need. Not less than what you need. I go as light as I can. But always make sure I have what's necessary. If I need to carry one gallon of water to make the water hole that's what I carry.

[MuddyWaters]

I have no problem with ultralight hikers at all, and I have no problem heating up water in my Jetboil to help them out, or sharing my water. I am a weekend section hiker however and have more fuel than I normally need and I always carry extra water.

Typical situations I have run into with ultralight hikers is:

1. They either run out of alcohol for their stove or are almost out and need hot water for their noodles.

2. They run out of water on a hot dry section of the trail because they only carry enough to get to the next water source (which is further than they expected).

3. They arrive at a full shelter, cold and wet and expect people to make room.

As it has been said on here more than once, their is a fine line between ultralight and stupid light.

There is nothing wrong with packing light, but packing so light you need to count on the help of others on a regular basis when the going gets tough is stupid light.

I pack as light as I can and still be able to care for myself in the expected conditions.

I personally have encountered more heavy hikers out of water, because they are generally noobs carrying too much weight, and moving slowly between sources. I give anyone water if I can spare it., but Im seldom carrying more than an extra 1/2 liter myself. Regardless, no one has died yet of thirst on the AT that Im aware of. Water is never more than a couple miles, its not that serious of an issue....unless it takes you all day to hike that couple of miles.

Anyone can run out of fuel. Id expect alcohol stove users to be less likely, because 1) they can see their fuel 2) its available everywhere. I know some have had issues with spillage or contamination with water when storing in water bottle type containers. Bad Idea.

Everyone that arrives at a shelter cold and wet, expects others to make room. Its an unwritten rule that you make room for people if its raining. While Im sure there have been a few hikers that didnt carry shelter and depended on shelters (ive read trailjournals/books by a couple), I wouldnt say that is normal at all.

The only hikers I have heard of counting on the help of others on a routine basis, were hikers that were out of money. Invariably, they werent UL either.

A cat stove cannot be crushed easily, if it is, you bend it back. Never mind the fact it sucks anyway. You can cook with a small piece of tin foil folded into a cup if you have too. A stove isnt a necessity anyway, even with noodles. You can eat noodles dry just fine, its not as appetizing Chunks of ramen dipped in peanut butter is not an uncommon meal.

Most arguements against UL is nothing but myths and hearsay IMO. A great many HEAVY backpackers go out without things they need, or more commonly crap versions of it. The average UL hiker is better educated than many.

[Malto]

If anyone is going UL and underprepared shame on them. The goal is to carry what you need. Not less than what you need. I go as light as I can. But always make sure I have what's necessary. If I need to carry one gallon of water to make the water hole that's what I carry.

Exactly. There are many useful UL tenets. but I never saw "Mooch off of others to lighten your load." If I run short of water I will be thirsty, not dead. If I run out of fuel I will eat almost reconstituted food, not starve. If I don't carry a shelter I am a idiot and deserve to be miserable. If it rains and I don't have proper rain gear, I get wet. Experience is knowing where to push the limits and where to play it safe. And every one of these issues could impact the lightest or heaviest BPers. It has nothing to do with weight, it has everything to do with experience.

[Namtrag]

I'd love to go UL if I had the dough. I have no issue with anyone who does it

[MuddyWaters]

I'd love to go UL if I had the dough. I have no issue with anyone who does it

Another misconception.
UL can actually be cheaper, If you start there.

The crap you dont bring, doesnt cost a cent.

Yes, some cuben stuff costs $$$, but other gear is just as inexpensive as conventional, or less.
The problem for most is, it isnt carried at REI.

[Namtrag]

Another misconception.
UL can actually be cheaper, If you start there.

The crap you dont bring, doesnt cost a cent.

Yes, some cuben stuff costs $$$, but other gear is just as inexpensive as conventional, or less.

Problem is, I didn't start there, and most of us don't. We just go to Dick's and buy "starter" gear.

then , we buy mid range gear (where I am now)

just wish is had known the stuff I now know when I started, I would have spent the same total, and had lighter stuff !

[MuddyWaters]

Problem is, I didn't start there, and most of us don't. We just go to Dick's and buy "starter" gear.

then , we buy mid range gear (where I am now)

just wish is had known the stuff I now know when I started, I would have spent the same total, and had lighter stuff !

True.
Spending money twice sucks.

I have a buddy that started hiking again last yr, he used to hike back in the 80s.
He quizzed me on all this UL stuff he read about, all my gear. He was all gung-ho to try a lightwt approach since hes had both knees operated on from motorcycle accidents (raced dirtbikes).
I referred him to all the popular cottage vendor websites. In the end, he chickened out and went to REI and bought new gear that was similar to his old gear. He was actually afraid to change.
He did manage a 17lb base wt though, although for what he spent $$$ he could have had a 7 lb base wt.
No matter, it all works, and if it gets you out there its good.
He was still happy as that was probably 10 lbs less than the gear he used to carry many yrs ago.

[Another Kevin]

Yeah, I'm one of those "resistant to change" guys. So count me as a heavyweight or traditionalist.

I've just been getting back into hiking the last couple of years (well, ok, I used to make a trip or two a year in between) after many years away from it. I started out with cheapish gear because I didn't know the modern stuff or what my style would be with it. I've gradually been swapping things out, but I'm not in a position to replace the whole system.

My Big 4 are a shade under 10 lbs. My pack is clunky - but it was sub-$100 and it fits me. My sleeping bag isn't the lightest, either, because I need a Long bag - a 72 inch bag doesn't quite work for me - and I use a 20 deg bag three seasons - in warm weather, I might wind up sleeping on top of it or have it opened up, pulled around my shoulders with my arse hanging out in the breeze. One of these years I might get a summer weight bag for warmer weather. My tent is pretty good - 1 lb 10 oz. My sleeping pad isn't horrible at about a pound. Add a few pounds for winter, when I'll be toting a 4-pound sleeping bag and an extra blue foam pad.

I don't know how likely I'd be to go with a quilt. I know I'm not any too likely to go with a tarp or bivy instead of a tent: "Blessed is he who sleepeth behind mosquito netting, for he shall remain sane."

I carry a few extra comfort items, like my nylon bucket. I'm not about to go no-cook; cooking can be a high point in my day on the trail. I have a reasonably lightweight kit for it - soda can stove, aluminum potstand/windscreen, Grease Pot, Fauxbaker, spork, mug, Reflectix freezer bag cozy. The major luxury there is a couple of ounces for a pour-over Melitta coffee filter. If I can't have real coffee, I'm not going.

In colder weather, my major in-pack (as opposed to worn) clothing weight is an extra baselayer, puffy jacket, fleece pants, rainsuit, balaclava and at least two extra pair of socks and liners. In some conditions a hardshell replaces the rain jacket.

First-aid kit, itty-bitty sewing kit, medications, soap, hand sanitizer, teethbreesh and floss, Deuteronomy 23:13, TP, tinderbox, bandana, towel (a piece of Sham-Wow from the dollar store), Leatherman tool, bearbag and paracord, Camelbak, at least one Nalgene with a Reflectix jacket on it (that's the coffee thermos!), AquaMira, phone, maps, compass, headlamp, whistle, credit card, driver's license, health insurance and prescription cards, some cash, car keys.

About two pounds of "it's none of your goshdarned business what else is in my pack."

All this adds up to "traditionalist", I think. But except for the first-aid and repair kits (which I hope NOT to use), I think I use every single item I listed on every trip. Maybe once in a great while I get lucky enough not to need the pack cover or the rainsuit. So even if I upgrade every item to a lighter one, I'm never going to be an ultralighter.

That's fine. I'm a clueless weekender. I get out on weekends, do short miles and have fun. That's what it's all about.

[bfayer]

...Most arguements against UL is nothing but myths and hearsay IMO. A great many HEAVY backpackers go out without things they need, or more commonly crap versions of it. The average UL hiker is better educated than many.

Nothing I said was an argument against UL, what I said was an argument against stupid light (can also apply to stupid heavy). Also, nothing I said was a myth or hearsay, each and everyone of those has happened to me and more than once.

[russb]

I think George Washington Sears aka Nessmuk summed it up rather well about 100 years ago,

"Go light; the lighter the better, so that you have the simplest material for health, comfort and enjoyment."

[garlic08]

Just curious how regular this scenario happens. As a UL BPer I have yet to ask any hiker, heavyweight or not for anything because I didn't have it. I have heard this comment before yet it has never happened with me or to me. Would love to know just how regular this really is.

Sometimes you have to remember this is an AT-based forum. As you know, things are so different in "AT World," compared to the long Western trails. It's different when there is no one to mooch from for many, many days. Like Mags said, it's nice to hike where nobody's complaining.

I'm with you, Malto. Having hiked many thousands of UL miles, I've loaned plenty of stuff out to heavier hikers (usually blister first aid) and have never asked for anything in return. Once on the AT I accepted the kind offer of a plate of shared cooked food, and this was after I'd helped the person fix his water filter. It was simple decency and gratitude, and we both gained something from it.

It's a universal truth that anyone packing lighter than you is a risk-taking fool, and anyone packing heavier than you is an obsolete dinosaur.

[Bronk]

Just curious how regular this scenario happens. As a UL BPer I have yet to ask any hiker, heavyweight or not for anything because I didn't have it. I have heard this comment before yet it has never happened with me or to me. Would love to know just how regular this really is.

"Dude, can I get a squeeze off your toothpaste?" If people are sponging off you all the time its because you allow them to, but some people have no shame and will continuously ask and pester you until they get what they want, then act like you're the jerk for not giving it to them.

[MDSection12]

But it each hiker's responsability to have certain necessary things , like guide books, water filter, stove. If you are going to use it, bring it.

I'm not sure this is a UL vs. HW issue though. In my hiking group I'm both the UL (relative to them anyway) guy and the guy who loans half his stuff out to others. They all carry huge tents, chairs, canned goods, etc. and yet they inevitably find something I've brought useful; sit pad, saw, warm jacket, tarp, first aid, etc. Perhaps it has more to do with experienced vs. inexperienced hikers, when it comes to the borrowing aspect.

[Namtrag]

I know I bring stuff that is not absolutely necessary, but here is what I bring...my total pack weight including food and water was 36lbs for a 2 night, 3 day trip:

Osprey Volt 60: 3lbs 12 oz
Thermarest Scout Pad: 1 lb 1 oz
Big Agnes Deer Park 30: 3lbs 2 oz
MSR Hoop Tent, about 5lbs (my wife carried the poles)
Helinox Camp Chair: 2 lbs
Bear Vault 450: 2 lbs
Clothes Bag: did not weight, guess, but 4lbs to be conservative
Food for me and my wife: 5lbs (guess)
Water (2 liters): 4.4lbs

As you can see if you add it up, it adds up to 30 lbs, not 36lbs, so I have no idea what the extra 6 lbs was from. lol Must have been underestimating the weight of the food. And I did weigh the pack when it was full using a luggage hanging scale.

I am already planning to eliminate the Bear Vault and get an Alite Monarch chair (if I can get my weight down so I won't break the chair lol), so I can save 3lbs right there without spending a lot of money. We are also saving to buy a Tarptent Stratospire, and I may buy an Enlightened Equipment 20 degree quilt to save more weight.

There is no reason I should be over 25lbs after that, including my food and water.

[Nodust]

Perhaps it has more to do with experienced vs. inexperienced hikers, when it comes to the borrowing aspect.

I think this is the case.

[Southeast]

It's a universal truth that anyone packing lighter than you is a risk-taking fool, and anyone packing heavier than you is an obsolete dinosaur.

Agreed.. And anybody within a couple pounds of you is brilliant.

[MDSection12]

Agreed.. And anybody within a couple pounds of you is brilliant.

On the highway, anyone going faster than I am is an idiot, anyone going slower is a moron.

[Gray Blazer]

On the highway, anyone going faster than I am is an idiot, anyone going slower is a moron.

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