...life, liberty, and the pursuit of property.
Lonehiker (MRT '22)
Nothing in English, but here it says that the Germans spend 930 000 hotel (or tent) nights in Norway, and we are a population of about 5 million:.
http://www.innovasjonnorge.no/PageFi...0-%20siste.pdf
Not to mention state parks and recreation areas, here are a few examples, to take a hike.
* The National Park Service (NPS) conserves lands and resources on 80 million acres – a Norway-sized area – in order to preserve them for the public. Any harvesting or resource removal is generally prohibited.
* The Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) manages 89 million acres – an area slightly bigger than Germany – to conserve and protect animal and plant species.
* The United States Forest Service (USFS), which oversees timber harvesting, recreation, wildlife habitat protection and other sustainable uses on a total of 193 million acres – almost the size of Turkey – mainly designated as National Forests.
* The Bureau of Land Management (BLM), managing 248 million acres [5] – an area the size of Egypt – has a multiple-use, sustained-yield mandate, supporting energy development, recreation, grazing, conservation, and other uses.
reference:
http://bigthink.com/strange-maps/291...ands-in-the-us
These are only four examples: our federal government does this.
Last edited by Connie; 05-30-2016 at 01:36.
This map shows even the east coast, we think of as continuous utban sprawl, has more forests than urban development.
image.png
If I were in an east coast state, I would get the oxHunt app map for that state, to find out where I have access.
It is a subscription service, because each map is updated.
I do not hunt. I only want the app, so my iPod Touch GPS will show me I am not trespassing.
The state map I have used, gives me ideas so I find out rules and regulations that may apply.
One example: I went to a national forest office in Arizona. I made certain of the information. I found out I was welcome to "primitive camp" anywhere in huge tracts of land, the ranger pointed out. He also pointed out hot springs and abandoned cabins for public use.
Of course, it was limited stay. Of course, it was pack it in - pack it out. Leave No Trace.
It was important I had a small portable Eco-toilet (boom box, equipped with RV type pump out fittings) I had purchased for my float trips on rivers.
There are different rules for different places: this was "high desert".
This is but one example of my getting out for recreation.
I do bicycling, with so-called "stealth camping" - only it is legal. I do canoeing, kayaking, camping, and hiking.
It is my experience, if you can't find a place to do these things, even fishing, boating, birdwatching.. other recreation, you haven't really looked into it.
I know people that legally motorcycle, dirt bike, ATV, and RV "boondock" legally.
It is limitated-thinking that holds people back from finding out about all there is for hiking in a natural environment.
What an interesting thread! I want to visit Norway now more than ever.
I would note that we have had a similar tradition in Maine for many years, albeit limited to the vast tracts of privately owned forests.
This link provides a good history: http://digitalcommons.library.umaine...74&context=mpr
The issue has taken on an elevated profile in recent years after very successful self-made business woman purchased some 100,000 acres to be preserved and if approved, made into a National Park. When she had closed off some of her property to the public, she became reviled by many of the locals.
Anyway, it's another way we Americans look at others private property. I appreciate that it's different in Norway.
Last edited by rickb; 05-30-2016 at 05:42.
I have to emphasise that my question did not have basis in that I would suggest that Norway is a better country in general, or that I want to tell Americans what to do with their country. I just wanted some good answers to the question I put forward, which I have gotten. The lack of freedom do roam annoys me as person, and not Norway as a nation.
What the definition of freedom is has been discussed among philosophers for a very long time. Contributors are among others Steiner, Hegel, James and Schopenhauer. But I understand you have the final conclusion once and for all. For me freedom is first of all an intellectual freedom, but I sure do feel free when I exercise my freedom to roam.
The question is if people anywhere should have an absolute property sovereignty over such big areas, and wilderness in general. You say yes, but think about this. If USA had been even more capitalistic, like objectivistic Ayn Rand style, the rich 1% would not only own 40% over everything, but more than 99%. Would you still feel free? In my country the land owners still make money on hunting and fishing rights, and harvesting the forest. Other people just got the right to roam the land. Not much else. But again, this is how we do it, it does not mean that you have to do it.
Norway do not have a socialist government at the moment. But one thing they will never touch is free universal health care and the freedom to roam. Actually this non-socialistic government is working on expanding the rights of the freedom to roam (they will remove som local rights to deny access). The tax burden is not that high, and we don't have to pay for education or medical care. This is not a pissing contest, but I challenge you to come to Norway and not like our kind of freedom. Many Americans confuse socialism with communism. Remember, socialism did work for Scandinavia.
Interesting thread Oslohiker.
I definitely agree that Norway is NOT a socialist country, very much a capitalistic, and with an economy based much on oil reserves from the North Sea.
Personally, I'm a believer in property rights, much preferring our current way, but I can see how this Freedom to Roam philosophy would work in places like Norway, but not here. Having said that, I've never felt trapped while out doing hikes or bike tours.
I've been to Norway, but I definitely don't pretend to be an expert on the area, but one thing I noticed from my very limited experience, is that culture in Norway is far different, not nearly as diverse. I think this is primarily because of immigration laws and that Norway's population is a mere 5-million, whereas here we are the third most populous country in the world. I'm probably wrong in this and open to correction, but that's the way I see it now.
BTW, I've never heard of this Freedom to Roam thing, so I'm going to read up on it and will be interested to follow this thread, it's definitely different than the normal threads...
In the US you have the right to roam most of the 30% of the land that the government owns or controls.
As far as camping or "roaming" on my private property, can I charge you a fee?
"Chainsaw" GA-ME 2011
I've camped and walked in several countries in Europe. Different attitude toward land ownership there. Different outlook about property and government as well.
England must have some sort of law(s) similar in effect to what Oslohiker describes. Which is to say, landowners need to tolerate foot traffic over the margins of their lands.
My wife and I have walked portions of The Coastal Path, a 630 mile path in southern England, along the coast of Cornwall and Devon. It's gorgeous. Anyone can walk it. And they do.
BTW, for all on here that don't understand the concept of property ownership and want this law here in the U.S., keep in mind this goes way beyond simply walking across a tract of land. It would mean that horses and bikes have a right to the AT.
From the little reading I've done already, this law doesn't just apply to private property.
http://www.miljodirektoratet.no/en/A...-Roam/Cycling/
That's Freedom to Roam, but of course that doesn't necessarily mean we have to adopt the law verbatim, so are we simply talking about allowing people to walk across private land or Freedom to Roam? I'm talking about the entire law.You can ride your bike wherever there is a right of public access. You may also cycle across fenced land on private roads and established paths leading to open country, although organized groups and commercial users are not allowed to do so. Just be sure that the road, path or terrain you are using is suitable for cycle traffic. Some greenbelt land, recreational areas and nature reserves may have special rules or even a complete ban on cycling. Check whether there are designated cycle routes and a cycling map of the area
BTW, not all is peachy in Norway with this law, proving once again that it's seldom greener on the other side of the hill. Apparently some tourists taking advantage of the Freedom to Roam law
Interesting reading: http://www.newsinenglish.no/2015/07/...-wild-camping/
The problem is, people are ********.. We've all encountered them and they don't give a **** about anything or anyone. They're selfish and destroy things for no good reason. This is why we object so imminently against freedom to roam. We bust our chops at jobs we hate to afford the little we have and we wouldn't risk it for the chance that one of these ******** roams into our land and wrecks what we have worked so hard to earn. If everyone had common courtesy and respected each other and their property or nature for that matter, we wouldn't be so worried about freedom to roam.
Wow.
Here, the oxHunt app map for this state shows private property, that allows hunting and fishing.
There is no reasonable place to walk, in town, that isn't concrete or blacktop.
I looked at the map, inquired: now, I walk along the river corridor, and, I have found hikes that go thru private property. I asked, or wrote by using the private property information provided.
I said, I see you allow hunting and fishing. Is it okay to hike thru your property to put together a reasonably long hike. I will close gates.
I put more recreational land for hiking than the entire land area of Norway, Germany, Turkey and Egypt in my post to the thread on this page.
I only took first page results of a Google search.
We need to do more?
I think the people who criticise are not looking into this, at all.
Please stay on the crowded corridors of the AT. There someone else will blaze the trail for you.
My website lists long trails, but don't look. You might like those long trails.
http://www.ultralightbackpackingonline.com/links1.html
Last edited by Connie; 05-30-2016 at 09:33.
I like this verse in the original version of "This Land is Your Land" --
As I went walking I saw a sign there
And on the sign it said "No Trespassing."
But on the other side it didn't say nothing,
That side was made for you and me.
http://www.woodyguthrie.org/Lyrics/This_Land.htm