I have a feeling Papa Smurf did this too ! He was one of the last people to see him alive. And from what I have read about him....... well, I would not be surprised. Has anyone responded to you about his whereabouts ? I did not know Scott, however, you can see from his picture, he was happy just being on the AT. I am so saddened by this crime : (
It is really unsettling how easily some people on this site have been willing to accuse a stranger of murder based on a few news articles/press releases and some message board gossip. Granted this is the internet, but I have to wonder if you understand just how serious an accusation you making.
Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.
I agree with you, speedbump.
Some people take the straight and narrow. Others the road less traveled. I just cut through the woods.
It's is without question a tragedy... its an investigation, please do not jump to conclusions.
Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.
Woo
My toddler knows the basics of not bearing false witness. For her, it's just "don't make up stories about people". My toddler is more mature than some of the posters here, or at least more responsible.
Than you W.O.O. you said it much better than I could have.
I didn't mean to sound too blunt in my earlier post, but this situation is a very real tragedy involving very real people. I think that those of us on the sidelines should treat it with the respect it deserves.
Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.
How, Elf, is "I have a feeling So-and-So did x" the same as an outright accusation that "So-and-so did x"? It's not. Nor is "I never left behind the thought that So-and-So is the common thread."
I don't mean to be rude or to pull rank, but do you know much about defamation law? It so happens that I have spent a good part of the past year fairly deep in the weeds of it because I am representing someone in his complicated libel lawsuit. It is not at all the same thing, legally or logically, to say "I have this feeling O.J. killed Ron and Nicole" as it is to say, "O.J. killed Ron and Nicole, and it will stand up in court." This, of course, is not the O.J. Simpson case, but it is a subject of considerable interest to the Appalachian Trail community, a nice, innocent would-be through hiker killed, according to investigating authorities, in cold blood and buried in a shallow grave near the trail. To express one's OPINION or FEELING about a matter of public notoriety or interest is one of the great exceptions to defamation liability, especially when the opinions or feelings have significant basis in fact. Here the law recognizes simple human nature.
If you think people are not going to speculate and opine about such a matter in a discussion board on the Trail, the biggest one I know of, or if you think it is somehow disrespectful of something - not clear what, really, but something, I guess - you are missing the boat on this one, as I see it.
Moreover, it so happens, according to credible reports and/or to the statements of authorities, that among the last people who interacted with the victim is a man with a significant rap sheet who happened to be, evidently, in the A.T. corridor in the vicinity of a string of property crimes and who was accused of having shafted a merchant in Pennsylvania within a period of a month or two prior to the murder. Are you suggesting it is unreasonable to note the patterns here? To note that some of the victim's things evidently were taken from the crime scene, thus suggesting this homicide may have stemmed from or coincided with a property crime?
As I said, the investigating authorities in their most recent statement said they had not ruled out fellow hikers of Scott's whom they had sought to interview, among them someone trail-named Papa Smurf. It bears pointing out here that a lot of crimes, sadly a lot of homicides, go unsolved. In many of these, the authorities are confident they know who the perp is, but they lack sufficient evidence to convict him or her beyond a reasonable doubt as our laws require. O.J. himself was acquitted, though most people now are confident he did indeed killed his ex-wife and her friend.
So judge others harshly if you must because they take an interest in this awful killing and what it suggests about safety on the trail that the murderer has gone unarrested, at least for this crime, and that an evident miscreant - perhaps merely coincidentally, perhaps not - was reporedly (multiple independent reports, at that) menacing more than a few people on trail during the same time frame along the Trail and was among the last people to see the victim and was not seen again on trail, it appears, from the time of this homicide forward. An awful lot of coincidence, seems to me, and I don't find it disrespectful of anything or anyone to say so. I regret that it appears we cannot agree on that.
The more miles, the merrier!
NH4K: 21/48; N.E.4K: 25/67; NEHH: 28/100; Northeast 4K: 27/115; AT: 124/2191
Elf,I agree with ya.To me the guy sounds like bad news,no doubt,and nobody would say/could say any different,based on past reports,but folks....lets not have another witch hunt,thats just ignorant.Most are pissed,and thats normal,emotions rage....but lets not forget inocent until proven guilty.It really is a better way.
Driver8, I decided to PM you with my response, since I really don't want to add to this public debate. Long story short, I understand your opinion, but I agree to disagree.
Speedbump, My first response was poorly worded and I didn't mean for it to sound like a personal attack; if that is how you interpreted it than I apologize. My opinion on the subject is the result of having read many posts on this subject, as it has been discussed and speculated upon within this site for months.
Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.
yep,I too feel it has been done to....well a lot.let it go.
Well said Driver8. Opinions, speculation and hunches are what start an investigation and the decision to single out one or two likely candidates for doing the deed. Papa Smurf clearly hasn't done himself any favors with his previous bad behavior according to more than a few people who encountered him. It's merely they're opinion so and to my knowledge no one on this site has said "Yeah, papa smurf did it."
Hell, this entire site is based on opinions from sleeping bags, tents, kilts, and everything in between so why stop at opinions of the lousy character and behavior of other hikers?
I found Driver8's response to be very well thought-out and articulate. And as for the "pulling rank" remark: completely appropriate since he obviously knows the law in this matter.
I personally did not meet "Papa Smurf" and my only opinion is that it seems likely that he: 1. Skipped out on his bill; 2. Carried a large machete 3. Took the same trail name as a very generous trail donor 4. Appeared to interact in a rather bizarre manner at times.
It is not an unlikely conjecture for many to believe that he is a "person of interest" in this case. Simply put: "If it walks like a duck..."
I get that many on this site are into the whole "all men are brothers; Kumbaya" sort of mentality. I totally respect that. And then there are those of us who aren't. It doesn't make us bad people...just a heck of a lot more realistic.
Last edited by WIAPilot; 05-19-2012 at 06:44.
I said this on a previous Teardrop thread:
To whomever is pissed that we're speculating . . . .
Get over it.
This is the internet, not a real-life police-based witch hunt. This is the not the equivalent of, "Shoot first and ask questions later."
We can say whatever we like, we can discuss whatever we like, and if it turns out that this Papa Smurf/Teardrop DID kill poor Mr. Lilly, then guess what? At least we gathered our evidence together to figure out what potentially happened and presented it to the proper authorities (or at least I'm guessing some of us have).
And if he didn't? He's still an unstable man known to be aggressive, confrontational and unsafe, and people should be aware of that! Geez, didn't ya'll ever hear, "Better safe than sorry"?
Formerly 'F-Stop'
If you don't like the road you're walking, start paving another one.
~ Dolly Parton
I did not realize that my hunch would cause such a debate ! Wow !! Thanks Driver 8 for your input. I did not say he did it, just that I have a feeling, as do many on this post. I am just so very sad by this event. Hopefully the killer will be found, Papa Smurf or not, just found, so his family and his soul can rest. As for Papa Smurf, I believe he has a warrant out for other crimes as well? That is not a witch hunt, that is a fact.
And I totally dis-agree with the harsh above post from SF. Character Assassination against people who we do not like, or are partially unacceptable on the trail has no place here. I have made mistakes - but cannot be that mean spirited. This diatribe hurts others, hurts friends, and we don't even know if its survival mistake or a murder.
Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.
Woo
It's.............