GSMNP shelter etiquette ?

[Berry Belle]

I'm planning a section in the Smokies this year. The shelter regulations say that holders of shelter reservations must sleep in the shelter and are not permitted to tent. I would much rather tent (or actually, tarp) and am sincerely hoping the shelter Nazis aren't checking reservations to force me to take someone's chosen spot on that hard wood floor.

[HooKooDooKu]

I'm planning a section in the Smokies this year. The shelter regulations say that holders of shelter reservations must sleep in the shelter and are not permitted to tent. I would much rather tent (or actually, tarp) and am sincerely hoping the shelter Nazis aren't checking reservations to force me to take someone's chosen spot on that hard wood floor.

If you are section hiking, then you will need a general permit and not a thru permit (thru permits are only for AT hikers that are starting and ending their current hike at least 50 miles past the borders of GSMNP).

With a general permit, you will need to obtain a reservation for each shelter you plan to stay at, and that means a spot on that hard wood floor SHOULD be reserved for you.

So if everyone plays by the rules, your only LEGAL option will be to sleep in the shelter.

But obviously, parts of this thread have been discussing what to do when everyone else isn't playing by the rules.

[harmonjazzman]

During my thru I was at Cosby Knob Shelter. The shelter was full soI had set up my tent nearby. At dusk when all the hikers were turning in for the day three hikers approached the full shelter and announced, "we have permits for the shelter." Know one from the shelter answered them. They repeated that they had shelter permits. They then said that they didn't bring tents because they had planned to sleep in the shelter. They just finally moved on. Knowone was about to leave the shelter to make room for the three.

While these sectioners probably should've been better prepared, that was rude of the thrus to not offer them shelter space. My gf and I recently did a section of GSMNP and all the thrus we met were very kind and giving. We never would've asked them to leave a shelter, but I'd imagine if someone came in with no other form of shelter, they would've gladly made room or given up their space. We all have to look out for each other. Karma is nice and all, but a good deed is its own reward.

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk

[MTn music]

I'd gladly pitch my tent if it was me. I'm much more comfortable in that. Considering you had to make a reservation though, you may not have brought your tent. In that case, you'll have to say something, or be left outside to fend for yourself.

[Grampie]

If you are section hiking, then you will need a general permit and not a thru permit (thru permits are only for AT hikers that are starting and ending their current hike at least 50 miles past the borders of GSMNP).

With a general permit, you will need to obtain a reservation for each shelter you plan to stay at, and that means a spot on that hard wood floor SHOULD be reserved for you.

So if everyone plays by the rules, your only LEGAL option will be to sleep in the shelter.

But obviously, parts of this thread have been discussing what to do when everyone else isn't playing by the rules.

There are plenty of thru-hikers who don't play by the rules.

[squeezebox]

Yea really, don't "the rules" require a thru hiker to give shelter space to a permit holding section hiker.
Gosh just play by the rules and everybody should be happy.

[ChuckT]

What would a true census of hikers camping in GSMNP show? Specifically how many are walk-ins that _never_ got a prrmit. I know I met a few when I hiked thru solo.
I went to all the trouble to get a permit and meeting somebody that knew about the permit but didn't bother ...

Sent from my Samsung Note 3 using Tapatalk.

[July]

Coming thru two years ago, we arrived at a shelter kinda early @4pm. We found a single guy there with his hammock hung inside across the floor. He promptly informed us that he had "reservations" and this was "his" shelter for the night. We explained to him that the shelter had reservations for each spot, he was very surprised that by around 7 pm the shelter was PACKED with dirty stinky hikers!:-)

[sliderule]

While these sectioners probably should've been better prepared...

You are right. But carrying firearms in the backcountry isn't legal.

[squeezebox]

I can see why the AT has more than it's share of sociopaths, the guy with the hammock taking the entire shelter, dogs off leash, gun toters etc.
these people can not, or refuse to fit into normal society so they escape to the AT and we are stuck with their neurotic behavior.

[Hoofit]

they would rather pitch a fit

Ha!
sure seems like it !
truth is, if it's a beautiful night, most of us would rather pitch a tent...
But if the rain is pouring down, I might well want my shelter space if I'd planned for it...

[TNhiker]

But carrying firearms in the backcountry isn't legal.

carrying guns in the backcountry is legal....

they changed this a few years ago....

http://www.nps.gov/grsm/parkmgmt/lawsandpolicies.htm

[BZ853]

gun toters

What is wrong with someone exercising a constitutional right and doing so safely?

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

[Mags]

No gun discussion every goes well on hiking forums. Plenty of places to argue 2nd amendment rights elsewhere.
http://www.reddit.com/r/firearms

Thanks!

ps. esp considering this question was about shelter space!!!

[DavidNH]

If you have a reservation to sleep in a shelter and you are at the right shelter on the right date.. you have space. If not, people have to make you space in the shelter. period.

[Grampie]

If you have a reservation to sleep in a shelter and you are at the right shelter on the right date.. you have space. If not, people have to make you space in the shelter. period.

IN thory you are right. With no one there to inforce, it just doesn't happen.

[ChuckT]

As a society we are sometime wusses. Is you are in the GSMNP and your permit is in order you should not _have_ to demand your "rights" you should just move in and take a space. The offending hiker should move out. Easier said than done though

Sent from my Samsung Note 3 using Tapatalk.

[Old Hiker]

I can see why the AT has more than it's share of sociopaths, the guy with the hammock taking the entire shelter, dogs off leash, gun toters etc.
these people can not, or refuse to fit into normal society so they escape to the AT and we are stuck with their neurotic behavior.

Sociopath: a person with a psychopathic personality whose behavior is antisocial, often criminal, and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience.

Not sure that definition applies to the vast majority of hikers, esp. gun or dog owners, despite the behaviors. Maybe "quirky" may be a better fit.

As for the reservations, in 2012, I don't remember ANYONE asking or telling they had one. If the shelter was full, I/we tented. If it was half-full of females, I tented. Ridge runner stated I probably wouldn't have problems with any Rangers.

[flemdawg1]

As a society we are sometime wusses. Is you are in the GSMNP and your permit is in order you should not _have_ to demand your "rights" you should just move in and take a space. The offending hiker should move out. Easier said than done though

Sent from my Samsung Note 3 using Tapatalk.

How do you propose that one "take a space" and how do you determine who should move out?

Standing outside a shelter acting like a spoiled child and demanding to see everyone's permits and reservation receipts isn't going to work.

The only real choice is setup the tent you brought (and if confronted by a ranger, explain your situation) or keep walking.

[tim.hiker]

I didn't think you was allowed to set a tent up close to a shelter , tough call on asking people to leave but that is why there are rules... I much rather pitch a tent any day some hikers don't bath.. lol or it might be myself