GSMNP shelter etiquette ?

[George]

this thread brings to mind an interesting question - lets say you are not on a thru permit and have reservations, come in at a reasonable hour to find a full house, inquire to the occupants that you are required to stay in the shelter but no one leaves, so you tent at the site - at first light the ranger is there with his ticket book - after explanation, do you think you get fined?

[aficion]

this thread brings to mind an interesting question - lets say you are not on a thru permit and have reservations, come in at a reasonable hour to find a full house, inquire to the occupants that you are required to stay in the shelter but no one leaves, so you tent at the site - at first light the ranger is there with his ticket book - after explanation, do you think you get fined?

No, not at first light
If the shelter is in sight
and is still packed tight

[Firefighter503]

I'd gladly set my tent up and sleep outside. Never pass up the chance to earn some variation of "Bearfighter" as a trail name.





Just kidding. I didn't see a single bear in GSMNP when I was there.

[nu2hike]

"this thread brings to mind an interesting question - lets say you are not on a thru permit and have reservations, come in at a reasonable hour to find a full house, inquire to the occupants that you are required to stay in the shelter but no one leaves, so you tent at the site - at first light the ranger is there with his ticket book - after explanation, do you think you get fined?"
I was wondering the same thing! So maybe it's not exactly the crack of dawn but the above scenario occurs. What would happen then?

[Son Driven]

Depends on the weather, in 2013 no one had the courage to say "I have a reservation, you need to go out and pitch your tent" we all just kept making space, and ended up feeling like a sardine in a can. It would be much easier if the park allowed hikers the option of setting up tents & hammocks earlier in the day, while there is still day light rather then subject to them being thrown out by someone who comes in late with a reservation. Made to make camp in the dark, with freezing temps, and blowing snow.

[HooKooDooKu]

this thread brings to mind an interesting question - lets say you are not on a thru permit and have reservations, come in at a reasonable hour to find a full house, inquire to the occupants that you are required to stay in the shelter but no one leaves, so you tent at the site - at first light the ranger is there with his ticket book - after explanation, do you think you get fined?

From everything I've read and experienced, GSMNP Rangers are extremely reasonable. Therefore, as long as you speak in a truthful and respectful manner in explaining the situation, you have 0% chance of getting fined. Besides, there are enough people flagrantly violating rules (taking pets in the back country, camping without permits, feeding wildlife, etc) that Rangers have better things to deal with than your choices on how to deal with a full shelter.

Otherwise, my take on the etiquette of dealing with a full shelter is that I'm always going to show up at a shelter with backup plans (i.e. tent or tarp that would allow me to simply sleep outside the shelter).

[sliderule]

...to me asking some one to move over or move out is very rude.

"Asking" might leave the impression that compliance is optional. Don't ask.

[scope]

3 days ago I would have said no.....now? you're an axe murderer looking to perpetrate.

They should call in a submarine berthing designer to redo the shelters then they'd sleep 42.

Yeah, then they'd be designed with hammock bunks!

[RockDoc]

GSMNP shelters and camping is the wild west…
When we got to Mollies Ridge shelter there were few people in it, but newcomers kept putting up tents around the shelter. Before long there were 20 tents up and only 4 people in the shelter. So there were about 50 people milling around the shelter but only 4 were sleeping in the shelter. It seemed a little odd to me...
My understanding was that you could not tent until the shelter had filled. Perhaps my understanding is incorrect?

[hikerboy57]

GSMNP shelters and camping is the wild west…
When we got to Mollies Ridge shelter there were few people in it, but newcomers kept putting up tents around the shelter. Before long there were 20 tents up and only 4 people in the shelter. So there were about 50 people milling around the shelter but only 4 were sleeping in the shelter. It seemed a little odd to me...
My understanding was that you could not tent until the shelter had filled. Perhaps my understanding is incorrect?

your understanding is correct.
"anything the ref dont see is legal"
by that i mean if a ranger showed up , those tenters could and probably would be fined.

[George]

GSMNP shelters and camping is the wild west…
When we got to Mollies Ridge shelter there were few people in it, but newcomers kept putting up tents around the shelter. Before long there were 20 tents up and only 4 people in the shelter. So there were about 50 people milling around the shelter but only 4 were sleeping in the shelter. It seemed a little odd to me...
My understanding was that you could not tent until the shelter had filled. Perhaps my understanding is incorrect?

kind of an interesting take on it - 8 empty spots in the shelter could generate thousands in revenue

[daddytwosticks]

GSMNP shelters and camping is the wild west…
When we got to Mollies Ridge shelter there were few people in it, but newcomers kept putting up tents around the shelter. Before long there were 20 tents up and only 4 people in the shelter. So there were about 50 people milling around the shelter but only 4 were sleeping in the shelter. It seemed a little odd to me...
My understanding was that you could not tent until the shelter had filled. Perhaps my understanding is incorrect?

This is exactly what happened to me during my 2013 Labor Day Weekend hike. It was just me and about 4 other hikers in the shelter. About 8 large tents were set up. I was wondering if it was my odor or my gas issues? Maybe I looked creepy?

[aficion]

This is exactly what happened to me during my 2013 Labor Day Weekend hike. It was just me and about 4 other hikers in the shelter. About 8 large tents were set up. I was wondering if it was my odor or my gas issues? Maybe I looked creepy?

Whatever goes on in those large tents must be worth the risk of a fine.

[Hill Ape]

Direct confrontation, command voice. Talk to them like you are in charge.

Works for me every time. Haven't had to hurt anyone yet. Without fail, a few folks have come to a sudden realization that there is somewhere else that they need to be.

only you aren't in charge, and have no color of authority. so my hypothetical question to you would be "OR WHAT?" cause i'm one of those guys that don't like people exercising authority they are not sworn to hold. you can ask to see my permit, you can't demand to. i can refuse, and roll over and go back to sleep. just how far are you harsh words willing to escalate this confrontation?

i need to be, where ever i choose to be, and i don't answer to you about any of that

[Hill Ape]

and do you really foresee an outcome where you would resort to hurting someone?! seriously please say you're joking.

wow, just wow

[scope]

Direct confrontation, command voice. Talk to them like you are in charge.

Works for me every time. Haven't had to hurt anyone yet. Without fail, a few folks have come to a sudden realization that there is somewhere else that they need to be.

Yeah, guess you haven't come across that one that happens to suddenly realize there is somewhere else you need to be.

I assume your response is actually dry humor, but I think it best to be a little less dry, you know, for the noobs.

[Last Call]

Rejoice in your good fortune.

[JumpMaster Blaster]

I would prefer not to sleep in a shelter. I have a phobia of having mice crawling over me. I plan to carry a bivy and tarp. That way I can use the bivy in the shelter to keep the mice away (as suggested by someone on WB) or camp if the occasion arises!

That's not a phobia. I have a sincere DISGUST towards any animal crawling on me, except dog. Blech! To me, tenting is PREFERRED.

[Grampie]

During my thru I was at Cosby Knob Shelter. The shelter was full soI had set up my tent nearby. At dusk when all the hikers were turning in for the day three hikers approached the full shelter and announced, "we have permits for the shelter." Know one from the shelter answered them. They repeated that they had shelter permits. They then said that they didn't bring tents because they had planned to sleep in the shelter. They just finally moved on. Knowone was about to leave the shelter to make room for the three.

[Gambit McCrae]

thats good, i like that as a first step even better than my suggestions.




I hate the gsmnp and haven't been back since my thru. Someone posted that they now have raised wooden dividers between spaces that would make this impossible. Don't know if that is true or not.

yep this is true