Common Lightweight or "Ultralight" Mistakes

[bamboo bob]

One thing that gets me is when someone does not bring TP, stove, maps, enough food, or water, filter etc. and then asks to use someone else's . Live with your decision to go lightweight, or fix the problem. I use Tipi's system of paper towels to wash not just wipe at home. I will use paper towels or a dedicated 1/2 sq. ft. of chamois. Clean helps you from getting sick.

You got that right. I actually met a young man in the 100 mile wilderness who was carrying no food so he could finish faster. He would stop at camps and shelters and beg for food. Does that count as HYOH?

[squeezebox]

One thing that really gets to me are the folks who decide to not bring TP, stove, not enough food, or water, filter, maps, etc. and then have the nerve to ask someone else to use theirs. If you made a decision to not bring that stuff to be lightweight, live with that decision, or fix it. It's not on other people to fix you stuff. I'll help anyone in true danger to get off the trail.

[Coffee]

Why is it that "hike your own hike" usually either precedes or follows a judgmental statement? It's kind of like knowing what follows when someone says "with all due respect".

[squeezebox]

Bamboo Bob No food out in the deep woods, talk about a death wish. I think I would want to give him directions to get out in a day or so if possible. Or call the authorities to get an air lift. Too many people now-a-days want to make really bad decisions and not have to suffer the consequences. Oh!! someone is obliged to rescue me. Not !! I'm not being mean, just real .

[Conure]

Got to love all the rules the UL's place on themselves. If one person is use to carrying a 20lb base weight and gets it down to 8lbs, and another person is use to carrying a 50lb weight base and gets it down to 25lbs, who's really gone more ultra-light? It's all relative.

And like this post is proving, comfort is a very personal thing. In the majority of societies around the world, TP is not a luxury most people have; that doesn't automatically make them unhygienic, in fact good arguments can and have been made that TP provides less hygiene than other self-cleaning methods. To our overly conservative minds, the thought of using other methods can be repulsive but, again, it's all relative.

[Don H]

Thank you for pointing out my "mistakes", I carry everything but 2, 5 and 9 on your list.

[Turk6177]

That is funny!

[Different Socks]

Kc,

You're most likely one of those ultra-lighters that insists on taking a crap before they start each day of hiking for fear of having to carry the **** in your ass for all those miles and you tank up before you start hiking b/c you won't carry anything since there is so many water sources along the way. You probably don't carry a towel either to clean your self every day, so remind me to sleep on the other side of the shelter if I know you'll be there.

[Different Socks]

One thing that really gets to me are the folks who decide to not bring TP, stove, not enough food, or water, filter, maps, etc. and then have the nerve to ask someone else to use theirs. If you made a decision to not bring that stuff to be lightweight, live with that decision, or fix it. It's not on other people to fix you stuff. I'll help anyone in true danger to get off the trail.

AMEN!!! Happened to me too many times that the so called gram weenies are happy to be carrying so little weight, but are the biggest whiners when it comes to needing something they decided wasn't important enough to carry, so they have to ask others to provide.

[Different Socks]

You got that right. I actually met a young man in the 100 mile wilderness who was carrying no food so he could finish faster. He would stop at camps and shelters and beg for food. Does that count as HYOH?

No, that's a tramp or a hobo.

[bamboo bob]

No, that's a tramp or a hobo.

Actually, also that year was a guy named Prince of Whales who was in fact staying in 100 mile shelters and getting hand outs. Not a hiker for sure and very quiet guy. People taped money in envelopes on trees for him. Odd story.

[4shot]

I've made it hundreds of miles and hundreds of nights without it.

thanks for sharing your wisdom. I doubt we have any other posters here with credentials like that.

[aficion]

Why is it that "hike your own hike" usually either precedes or follows a judgmental statement? It's kind of like knowing what follows when someone says "with all due respect".

An "HYOH ", can mean many things. Some common interpretions might be:

1: Do it the way that makes you happy.
2: Whatever.
3: Mind your own business.
4: What a noob!
5: Bless your heart, poor thing.

The majority of the time I see it, the context will give away weather or not the demeaning elements of 2-5 are intended. It has been used many times however, in a goodhearted well wishing kind of way too. One of those things.

[aficion]

That would be whether...not weather. oops

[colorado_rob]

What can one say? I talked like that when I was 23, and both my kids did, I think it goes with the age.

Anyway, "mistakes" or carefully considered, weighed decisions? I think you (op) need to get a tad more experience before you call others' techniques "mistakes". For each of you list of 10 "mistakes", I could respond, but there would be no point in that, but I will mention a few.

TP: are you kidding? 1 tiny little ounce is a lot of TP and it lasts me a week. It doesn't take a whole lot of careful consideration to spend an ounce of weight to keep my fingers out of my bum.

Quilt: tried it, I really did try it, but it just doesn't work for my as I'm a side sleeper and flip-flopper. I borrowed my pal's 16 ounce quilt, didn't work, so I use my much warmer 22 ounce 30 degree sleeping bag. Yes, 6 extra ounce is very significant, but sleep is too important to cut that 6 ounces.

Canister stoves: At least you consider this, but I have to say one more time that if you are a big hot water user like myself (6-7 cups of hot water a day), the Jetboil Ti stove is far, far more efficient for 4+ days of un-resupplied hiking than alcohol. I've thoroughly experimented and run the numbers many times, I keep hoping I can save some weight, but it just doesn't work with alcohol.

Toothpaste: I carry about 1/3rd of an ounce of toothpaste that lasts a month. Again, I'll suck up 1/3rd of an ounce for this "luxury". Soap? I carry another 1/3rd of an ounce of a partial mini-bar. WHY do you do dishes???????????? Big "mistake". I have no dishes to do, just one UL coffee cup that I rinse after morning coffee and evening tea.

Underwear: Wow, given your take on TP I sure wouldn't want to see the inside of your shorts, buddy. Yikes!!!!!!!! I do choose to not wear underwear most of the time, but sure do like it at other times, 3 ounces of bliss when I want it.

Bottom line: grow up, get some real experience before you bash others.

[winger]

Hey OP, here's a suggestion, since you are such an experienced UL'er, why don't you post your same exact thoughts (your original post) over on backpackinglight.com and see what kind of response you receive there.

[Kc Fiedler]

Huh,... and I thought the guy hiking in just his underwear carrying only toilet paper really had this whole UL thing figured out.

That would really be some barebones ultralight. Maybe ultra stupid, as most of you would classify my own hiking style.

I remember my days in the Infantry and routinely humping with 80-90 pounds. I like my comforts,
and I have them all at 35-40 pounds and consider that weight to be a luxury!

80-90 lbs pack is quite a load, I carried 65 lbs at my three week resupply during a climbing expedition. I wouldn't want to have to do 90! Respect.

Common Lightweight or "Ultralight" Mistakes


The biggest mistake of all, is showing the world your meaningless opinions in a pointless, unsolicited post.

Which is what newbies with too much computer time, and too little trail time tend to do.


They make videos too. Why? Eager to share their newly aquired knowledge, not realizing that everyone else already knows it, and more.

There isnt any right way, or wrong way.


The premise of UL is to "Take only what you need".
That is different for different people, different trips, different locales, different seasons.

You're right this post does seem to have been pointless and certainly no one asked me to write it. I was hoping to attract the attention of fellow ultralight hikers who may also have noticed some problems of philosophy within the ultralight gear spectrum but instead I seem to have attracted the rage of a bunch of ultraloaders. Though there have been a couple of decent comments from people actually wishing to talk about my original post instead of attack me personally.

These are excellent points, especially the "unsolicited" part. It took me a long time to learn that unsolicited advice only benefits the person giving it.

But I do understand that when you find what you think is a better way of doing something, you want to shout it out to the world. The only problem is getting people to listen....

You're right, nobody wants to listen and I wasn't trying to shout it at the "classic backpackers" for lack of a better term. As I said above I was hoping that people who have an interest in discussing ultralight would be drawn to this post, not people who have an interest in attacking ultralight. I won't make that mistake twice.

KcFielder, your thinking is flawed, your practices are Ultra substandard...Seriously dude, this is basic stuff, not impressed with your weight savings at the expense of possible spreading decease....have you not been paying attention...Norovirus kills people, why take a chance, seriously dude, don't be a butt munch.


...and yep that was two seriously dudes.

My practices and thinking regarding hygiene are flawed? Or in general? I know some people certainly don't take care of themselves on the trail but I do. I'd prefer that I not get labeled as a "norovirus spreader". The only time I wiped my ass with my hand (in the spirit of being open minded to the idea) I washed thoroughly with Dr. Bronners including under nails as between fingers, and then cleaned with hand sanitizer before cooking. It's not something I do every time I hit the trail. Thanks for your concern.

wow, now you hurt my feelings. Since I violated several of YOUR uL rules, instantly my 8 lb. base is twice as heavy, my shoulder hurt just thinking about it. There was a very lengthy UL definition debate on BPL. It has now been solved. "UL is a 12 lb base AND must meet the approval of KC Fiedler." This is exactly the type of post that gives the UL community the reputation of being snobbish know it alls.

None of these are rules, so let your feelings mend. Thanks for the definition of 12lbs base weight.

Kc Fielder - I would never claim to be ultralight. I started backpacking in the days of seven pound packs and four pound tents. I'm light but not ultralight. What I don't understand is this. A 240 pound man with a 18 pound kit or a 180 pound man with a 12 pound kit. Is there a difference?

If my 18 pounds dropped to 16 would I even notice? I've known ultralighters with 7 pound kits but at nine would they notice or is the whole thing just the challenge of it. I also don't like it when ultrlighters ask to borrow gear that they don't want to carry. Like advil.

Discuss

I really like the tone of this comment and would love to discuss this with you! It seems that some measure of gear weight should be based on body size as a smaller person can use smaller bags/quilts and shelters, etc. Maybe someone should come up with a ratio or weighted factor if ever Ultralight were to be set down in stone as a tangible number. I think part of the spirit of ultralight is for a challenge to some people, so the minute change in weight may not be their ultimate motivation.

In my opinion any hiker is irresponsible and dangerous if they're not carrying the gear they need. If ultralight hikers are coming by and having to borrow gear and supplies from other people I can understand why they have such a bad rap. Personally? You won't find me unprepared, I'll cut my weight but not to the point that I'm leaving behind what I need. That's irresponsible.

For those using Dr. Bronners as "toothpaste", what were the results after a 4-6 month hike based on what a dentist had to say? For both teeth and gums? With dental care costing a fortune these days, I'd rather carry a few ounces to have actual toothpaste and a brush if the alternative is a $1500 bill for a gum graft plus a few hundred for fillings.

I've never tried using Dr. B's on a 4-6 month hike. If I went that long, I'd probably put some toothpaste in a mail drop and use it there or carry it for a week and then Dr. B's for a couple weeks on and off. Not sure what I'd do there, and I have thought about the effects of extended Dr. B's use. Andrew Skurka used it on his trans Alaska trip that was 176 days long, you could ask him personally but he still stands by Dr. B's. That's all the "evidence" I have to support Dr. B's on that kind of time frame. I personally have used it for just over 30 days a time with no ill effects. No gum swelling, no plaque buildup, no bad breath. I will let you know if I ever find out otherwise!

luckily this thread gave the OP a chance to brag and show superiority. sorry, but if cutting weight weight makes me a member of that "group" i would rather add 30 lbs and be in Tipi's tribe.

PS. KcF please justify your hammock. ground may be a few grams less.

I don't remember bragging about anything.


Let's talk about the hammock. I currently carry a HH Hyperlite Asym zip. 30.1 oz not including suspension. I bought it at Trail Days 2012 for super cheap, I forget what Tom was selling it for. At the time it was one of the lightest and most innovative shelters I had seen. I still like it.

As you will certainly realize, 30.1 oz for my shelter is pretty heavy by ultralight standards. I'm currently switching over to a MLD Cuben tarp that's 5oz lighter than the silNylon HH tarp. My first Cuben fiber piece of gear, I'm excited to try it. I think I will stick with the HH Hyperlite even tho it's heavier than some alternatives only because switching to a different hammock would cost me about $50 / oz of savings for a weight savings of about 5 oz. The only exception would be a Grand Trunk Nano 7 which would be pretty cheap and a large weight savings but I have my doubts about its comfort and durability it's a very short hammock and lacks a bug net. Though I could get a bug sock and I know I wont need the bug net in the Smokies mid summer. If I went with a net-less hammock and then tried to bounce box the bug net to save a few ounces it would turn into a guessing game and a pain in the ass plus a lot of shipping costs. So I think ultimately I'll just stick with the HH for now.

As you can see, I'm not trying to be some kind of god of ultralight or set forth some kind of rules. My personal set up isn't perfect, it's evolving. Last time I was on that AT I was carrying an Osprey Aether 60 which is far from an ultralight pack and my base weight was down at about 14 pounds. I've changed packs since then, and my gear is evolving as well. A lot of my weight savings comes from knowing my gear, knowing my style, knowing what I'm comfortable with, and knowing the woods. I understand for myself what I can cut and what I need.

[Dogwood]

Even though I meet all 10 of your UL "requirements" for being "competent" to post on UL forums and might entertain a targeted UL discussion regarding your "10 holier than though UL Commandments" YES you do come off as a harshly judgmental and cocky ULer elitist. That's coming from someone who is an advanced ULer himself. The way you're communicating here isn't going to garner you many serious responses other than getting people into a frenzy who don't share you're hiking philosophy. Did you even bother posting in the UL Forum or in a forum with Straight Forward UL discussions or on a website specifically geared to UL?

[Tipi Walter]

I use Tipi's system of paper towels to wash not just wipe at home. I will use paper towels or a dedicated 1/2 sq. ft. of chamois. Clean helps you from getting sick.

As I always say, a clean bung is a happy bung.

You got that right. I actually met a young man in the 100 mile wilderness who was carrying no food so he could finish faster. He would stop at camps and shelters and beg for food. Does that count as HYOH?

I had a couple teeth pulled last Fall 2013 so in fact my November backpacking trip was with a slightly lighter load I finally think I'm getting this UL thing figured out.

[Dogwood]

The spirit of my above post was written in context of what you posted previous to your last long post kcfiedler.