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  1. #1

    Default Water Treatment, Bleach??

    Ran into a SOBO a week ago in the Harper's Ferry area. She said she uses 2 drops of Bleach to a quart of water, then waits 20 minutes. Maybe this is common but I hadn't heard this before.

    Does anyone have experience and/or direct information on how effective this method is? Is it recommended? or approved by anyone or group? I like the cost and availability ratio to the idea.

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  2. #2

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    yes it does work- but like iodine, there are the warnings about long term use. for emergencies? yes. Would I use it long term? not personally, but it's your body...

    titanium
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  3. #3

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    Bleach is basicly cholorine. It is use by most cities in there water supply. I have used bleach off and on for years. When in the military it was the primary mehod of treating water in the field.
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  4. #4
    Addicted Hiker and Donating Member Hammock Hanger's Avatar
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    Once when on the trail back many many years ago when I actually treated the water and ran out of iodine I stopped in a drug store and the pharmacist told me to use 3-4 drops od bleach for each quart. He said there was not enough bleach to harm me and he did not see any problems using for 6 months. Of course now I am wiser and "don't treat my water at all." -- Wonder if that will hold true when I hike the FT... swamp water????
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    Most cities use chlorine dioxide, not chlorine like in bleach. Chlorine dioxide is what Aqua Mira creates when you mix it.

    Bleach works, but some studies say it doesn't kill everything, like crypto.

    Search it...here's a thread: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1963

  6. #6

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    Chlorine works well against a many pathogens, but unfortunately cryptosporidium (a common and widespread protozoan) is not one of them. A fully effective water treatment will remove or inactivate viruses, bacteria, and protozoans. Bleach alone does not do that.

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    Registered User Frolicking Dinosaurs's Avatar
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    I've used bleach for decades - add 3 or 4 drops to a quart of water and wait 30 minutes normally, but I add more - up to 10 drops per quart - if I have concerns about the water source. The water should smell a bit like bleach at the end of this procedure. You can get rid of some of the smell and taste by pouring it back and forth from containers several times after the waiting period.

    If you plan to use bleach, be sure to use only plain bleach - not scented bleach, color safe bleach or bleach with other additives. Household bleach contains a 3% - 6% solution of sodium hypocloride which breaks down into oxygen, salt and water. http://sci-toys.com/ingredients/sodi...ochlorite.html In other words, bleach will not build up in your body like iodine.

    BTW, researchers do not consider iodine to be any more effective than household bleach in destroying crypto. I just looked at over a dozen sites - mostly research papers from universities. All recommended boiling or a very fine filter as the way to defeat crypto.

  8. #8
    Geezer
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hog
    Chlorine works well against a many pathogens, but unfortunately cryptosporidium (a common and widespread protozoan) is not one of them. A fully effective water treatment will remove or inactivate viruses, bacteria, and protozoans. Bleach alone does not do that.
    Interesting. COmbining your post with #6 above it begs the questions: Is Aqua Mira effective if: a) Aqua Mira is chlorine based, and b) chlorine is ineffective against cryposporidium.
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    Registered User Nightwalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by titanium_hiker
    yes it does work- but like iodine, there are the warnings about long term use. for emergencies? yes. Would I use it long term? not personally, but it's your body...

    titanium
    TH, if you drink piped-in water, you drink chlorine. Sodium Hypochlorite, the active ingredient in bleach, is the most common treatment used for chlorinization, because it's the cheapest method. They buy it by the barrel

    I use it myself, but only when the water is suspect. Ususally I don't treat. When I do, if it's 3.5% Sodium Hypochlorite, I use 5 drops per liter. If it's the "ultra" 6% stuff, I use 3 drops per liter. Shake for ten seconds and wait 15 minutes.

    Check out MSR Viral Stop. It's 2 ounces of 3.5% Sodium Hypochlorite solution, and costs 10 bucks for the pretty little red and white bottle. I just use an empty eyedropper bottle--wrapped in duct tape, so that no one confuses it with eye drops.
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  10. #10
    Registered User Nightwalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Jeff
    Bleach works, but some studies say it doesn't kill everything, like crypto.
    Crypto isn't a real problem on the trail. The last time I heard of it popping up, it was fecal matter related, and in a public swimming area. In NJ, I think.

    Only filtering, UV or heat gets cryptosporum, to the best of my knowledge.
    Just hike.

  11. #11

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    Funny you should ask, just this week I drove a SOBO into town with severe problems coming out both ends. Found him in in the Tom Leanerd Shelter. Good thing I have a rat bag car. His method of water treatment, bleach. Do what you want it's your party.

  12. #12
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    The problem with using household bleach is that is not stable. It will over time break down and loose its potency. When you purchase the bleach, you do not know how old it is. I also believe that exposure to air and shaking can speed up the process of breaking down. Also, different brands vary in potency to start with so you can never know for sure what you got. You may find yourself uning too little or too much.

    The store bought versions of bleach based water purifiers are made to be stable over longer periods of time. They will have an expiration date on the label. And you will always know exactly how much to use.

    Panzer

  13. #13
    Registered User Panzer1's Avatar
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    The following is a repost of one of my old post about using bleach.
    _________________
    the following are some excerpts that I found on the net about using bleach.
    Panzer


    NOTE: Bleach does not work well in killing off beaver fever (Giardia) or Cryptosporidium parasites.
    The amount of bleach needed to kill these parasites makes the water almost impossible to drink. If beaver fever or Cryptosporidium are in your water, boiling is the best way to ensure safe drinking water.
    -----------
    Storing bleach in a warm place will speed up the Chlorine gas leakage. So over time your Chlorine concentration will diminish to a level you have no way of determining. When this happens you will have no idea how much to put in the water, making this a shaky situation.
    -------------
    Please note on chlorine bleach (liquid variety) that it is merely chlorine gas disolved in water, much like soda pop is CO2 disolved in water. Soda pop can go flat over time if the container is not PERFECTLY air tight. Bleach containers are usually cheap plastic that is gas permiable. Therefore, if you buy liquid bleach now for use later, the chlorine concentration will be less, perhaps MUCH less.
    ----------
    Chlorine also has its limitations. Its solutions are only moderately stable, and organic matter as well as iron and manganese can interfere with the action of chlorine. Low levels of chlorine normally used to disinfect water are not an effective treatment for the parasite Giardia. A relatively high chlorine level must be maintained for at least 30 minutes to kill Giardia. High chlorine concentrations can have objectionable tastes and odors, and even low chlorine concentrations react with some organic compounds to produce strong, unpleasant tastes and odors.

  14. #14
    Registered User Panzer1's Avatar
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    Please note that term "Beaver Fever" has nothing to do with girls...

    Panzer

  15. #15
    Registered User Dances with Mice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panzer1
    Please note on chlorine bleach (liquid variety) that it is merely chlorine gas disolved in water, much like soda pop is CO2 disolved in water.
    Owch! Uh....no, that's much like nails on a chalkboard to a chemist. Bleaching agents of all sorts work because they are oxidizers - and now we'll switch to "Dick and Jane do Science" : oxidizers kill bad things because they have loosely attached oxygen atoms that want to hop off and attach to, or attack, something else. And those unattached, or free, oxygen atoms are killers, they're real radicals, man. Free radicals, you could say. There's a joke in there but don't worry if you didn't get it.

    By the way, we're not talking about oxygen molecules here, O2, that's two oxygen atoms who have found each other in this crazy, mixed up world and had a commitment ceremony. Completely different.

    Chlorine bleach is an aqueous solution of sodium hypochlorite, NaClO, which itself is made from the electrolysis of chilled salt water. Chlorox doesn't add chlorine gas to water at their manufacturing plant, no one does. Gaseous chlorine isn't used in the process at all. In solution, and I'll have mercy and skip the chemical equations, NaClO partially decomposes into hypochlorous acid - HClO, which acts as an oxidizer when that oxygen atom on the end jumps off. It's the various oxidizing reactions (called 'bleaching') that kill the bad guys. The chlorine is just the vehicle that the oxygen uses to drive to the scene of the crime.

    Back to "Dick and Jane do Science" - The halogens - like Chlorine and Iodine are sort of like chemical Post-It notes. They stick to things, or things stick to them, but not real hard. In this case chlorine is used as a carrier for loosely bound oxygen atoms. Don't get all hung up on the chlorine stuff. Once the oxygen jumps off HClO, the chlorine still doesn't form chlorine gas, it forms hydrochloric acid, HCl, which willl grab a sodium cation still floating around the solution and form NaCl, or salt.

    I'm not arguing in favor of using bleach for water treatment, just for accuracy. And for fun...but at least I admit it.
    Last edited by Dances with Mice; 09-25-2005 at 23:54.
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    Registered User Dances with Mice's Avatar
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    Deleted,double post.
    Last edited by Dances with Mice; 09-26-2005 at 00:45. Reason: Double Post
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  17. #17

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    I trust the people in charge of water purification. I don't trust myself and the bleach manufacturer's ability to get every nasty in the water. I haven't got this worked out yet, but I think I'll filter.

    titanium
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  18. #18
    Peakbagger Extraordinaire The Solemates's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by titanium_hiker
    I trust the people in charge of water purification. I don't trust myself and the bleach manufacturer's ability to get every nasty in the water. I haven't got this worked out yet, but I think I'll filter.

    titanium
    Agreed. The only thing I use bleach for is to clean out my Camelbak bladder or Platypus bag periodically.
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  19. #19

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    Bleach is the only water treatment i carry. I don't use it much (if the water source is being filtered by the ground, i don't worry, unless it's coming from just below and outhouse or similar location)
    I haven't gotten sick from water in the past 11,000 miles of hiking now and haven't treated any of that water except to use bleach. I saw on here above that some guy in a shelter was sick from using bleach (possibly). Perhaps he didn't wait 20 minutes, or longer if it's really cold water. I use 1 drop per litre unless i think it's extremely dirty, and then i use 2 and ALWAYS wait 20 minutes if it's fairly warm and 30-40 minutes if it's really cold. I use a Visine bottle that i emptied out to store it in and change it twice a year (aprox)
    I have had Giardia already and believe that that's why i don't get it anymore, even when i drink the water in Asia (as long as it passes MY common sense tests)
    I don't mind all the filters out there anymore, to each his own of course. but i do worry sometimes that people assume that everyone filters so they can wash/clean up in the springs. Please respect the fact that many of us do not treat the water and keep all water sources as clean as you found them.
    (and you should keep an open mind towards all these filter companies too. they love to frighten you)
    Last edited by fiddlehead; 09-26-2005 at 16:25.

  20. #20

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    What did you do about the cow ponds on the CDT? I'm not that worried about giardia, but I have a real disgust at drinking visible cow/duck/elk droppings in my water. I'd like to get past that but, so far, haven't managed very well. I hate carrying a filter, but you know what the Wyoming water sources are like.

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