Market for selling used ultra-light gear

[denefi]

Hi all,

I'm new to backpacking but am considering a thru hike attempt for 2015. I don't have much gear so am largely starting from scratch. From talking to others, watching videos, and reading on here, I'm getting to understand the benefits of going light weight. I'm pretty sure I'd enjoy the hike more if I had less weight on my back.

That said, this can obviously run up the price tag. How's the market for selling used lightweight camping gear? Looking at spending $1k+ to go significantly lighter while staying comfortable would be less of a mental hit to the wallet if I felt the gear would retain some value for resale on the other end. The biggest ticket item I've been looking at is the ZPacks Hexamid Duplex tent, which sells at $595. Same question stands for lightweight packs (maybe ZPacks Arc Blast at $279), sleeping pads, and sleeping bags. I did a search for this topic and didn't see anything. I know I could look at prior items for sale, but it's not always clear whether they sold or at what final price. Anyone have experience selling this type of stuff off?

Thanks in advance for any insight!

Dennis

[RodentWhisperer]

Backpackinglight.com has a very well-used Gear Swap forum, and I've made use of it both as a buyer and as a seller. When selling, I've always been less interested in getting a return-on-investment than I've been on clearing out my excess gear. I've usually assumed that simply taking something out of the store (or wherever) cuts something's retail value by 10-20%. After that, the amount of use, quality of upkeep, and even sheer age can be taken into account when determining an asking price.

And get ready to negotiate with any interested party.

[denefi]

Backpackinglight.com has a very well-used Gear Swap forum...

This is awesome, thanks! I haven't spent any time at that site yet.

I wouldn't expect to get all of my money back, but it's good to know that there is an active market for this stuff. I may not even look to sell it, but it's nice to have the option (especially as I'll be leaving my job in the spring and getting a new one on my return is a bit of a wild card).

[Venchka]

Start by buying used at this forum. Exercise a modicum of restraint and common sense. There is economical and sensible light - TarpTent, ULA, etc. Or crazy silly light. The former is foyer half the cost of the second group.
The best advice of all: "Buy quality once."

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

[quasarr]

WOW! Right out of the gate with UL gear, I like your style, sir!

The big question is your budget. If you can afford it, you can get a really top quality 8-9 lb base weight for top $$. BUT ... you can get around 10 lbs with a much lower budget, especially if you are willing to make your own gear. For example ... the zpacks shelters you mentioned are really the top of the line in my opinion but they cost upwards of $400. Or you could make your own tarp from Ray Jardine's kit for $80! I had never sewed anything before, but it's basically just a rectangle and the directions are very good. One of Ray's 2-man tarps, including lines, weighs about a pound.

http://www.rayjardine.com/ray-way/Tarp-Kit/index.htm

Another example, the ULA CDT medium is 24oz, more than the cuben backpacks. But the price is only $135, I think this is a pretty good deal for a UL pack. Or the Gossamer Gear G4, which weighs 16oz and costs $105.

http://www.ula-equipment.com/product_p/cdt.htm

http://gossamergear.com/packs/backpa...-backpack.html

With sleeping bags, I think going used is your best bet to save some $$. I got a Western Mountaineering bag (and a zpacks hexamid solo!) here on the WB used gear forum. So keep an eye out, you have a lot of time. Also Enlightened Equipment has pretty good prices on quilts, about $100 less than something comparable from WM

http://store.enlightenedequipment.com/quilts-1/

Sleeping pad, you can buy a blue foam pad at Walmart for $8 that will be the same weight as any other UL pad out there, just cut it down to size.

Cooking pot, the infamous K-Mart Grease Pot weighs less than some titanium pots and costs $6. Make your own alcohol stove for $0. Etc!

Also Mags has a good blog post about a sub $300 gear list. It's not exactly UL but will give you some ideas.

http://www.pmags.com/300-gear-challenge

They always say, shedding pounds is cheap - shedding ounces is expensive. You can definitely get to around 10 lb base weight without shelling out huge bucks. But to get much lower, you have to start buying cuben stuff and whatnot. I know this goes way beyond what you were asking, but just some thoughts for you!

[Malto]

I will third or fourth the suggestion about BPL.

With your budget I would never drop $585 on the Zpacks shelter or even $279 for a pack. I would chose to invest in a high quality quilt or bag, that would likely be the only new gear I would buy. The rest you can get from gear swap on BPL. I would not worry too much about buying and not having it work for you. Unless you pay too much you should be able to sell it back for about what you paid. Also, with your budget don't be drawn to the "cutting edge" gear like a moth to light. Often for a "weight penalty" of a couple of ounces you can cut your cost for gear by up to half.

Im also not sure that I would try jumping directly to your perceived lightweight endpoint. My concern with doing that would be that you don't have the experience to go with the lightweight weight kits and after a couple of miserable experiences you walk away from it. There is a whole thread on "what did she do wrong?" That deals with this one.

finally, many of us make our own gear. Generally that is after we have used a few setups and know what we are looking for. The advantage is getting exactly what you are looking for and often with Cuben at a lower cost. Most of started with simple things like stuff sacks or modifying existing gear.

[bigcranky]

Specialized ultralight gear at the bleeding edge of tech can be kind of expensive, though compared to other hobbies backpacking is pretty cheap. But you can have a pretty light base weight without spending a huge amount of money -- you just have to choose wisely and put the big bucks into a couple of carefully chosen items.

For example, find a used Tarptent Moment or Contrail for maybe $150 or so, instead of the $500 cuben shelter. Pick a $20 set of Dri Ducks over a $200 rain shell (and the Dri Ducks are lighter!) Make an alcohol stove out of components you have in your recycling bin, and buy an $8 Grease Pot at Walmart -- a very cheap and very light kitchen set. Buy hiking sticks at Walmart for 1/10 the cost of Lekis. Buy hiking clothes at Target for 1/10 the cost of name-brand outdoor clothes (their synthetic athletic stuff is actually very good.) Use a $10 closed cell foam pad instead of a $200 Neoair.

Put the real money into two things: a really good sleeping bag, and a good pack. Based on where you are, a good 20-F down bag that weighs about 2 pounds should be good for most of the regular hiking season. These can be found on sale for $300 or so (Marmot Helium, for example.) A 2-3 pound pack with a frame that can carry about 30 pounds is perfect for lightweight hiking -- if the REI Flash packs fit you well, they are often on sale for $150 or so, but my personal choice is the ULA Circuit for $225. We own three of them

Good luck and happy trails.

[denefi]

Start by buying used at this forum. Exercise a modicum of restraint and common sense. There is economical and sensible light - TarpTent, ULA, etc. Or crazy silly light. The former is foyer half the cost of the second group.
The best advice of all: "Buy quality once."

Wayne ]

Restraint and common sense = both things that I fail at! Good point about buying used myself. Despite asking about selling off my stuff afterward, I actually hadn't considered using the used market myself to gear up. Also, great advice re: buy quality once.

WOW! Right out of the gate with UL gear, I like your style, sir!

Thank you! I do what I can. Thanks for all the links! This will keep me busy for a bit. Knowledge is money for these purchases, so this type of help is huge.

finally, many of us make our own gear. Generally that is after we have used a few setups and know what we are looking for. The advantage is getting exactly what you are looking for and often with Cuben at a lower cost. Most of started with simple things like stuff sacks or modifying existing gear.

I'll take a look at this. I've skipped past the DIY forum because I figured it was a bit too hardcore for my skill level. Maybe I'm wrong? Also, off to work in a few minutes but I'll read through that thread afterward.

----

A more specific question for you guys. Sorry, as I know it's kind of breaking from the original.

I have an Osprey Kestrel 48 (3.5 lbs) and an old Thermarest (just over 2lb). Would you suggest just using those? I know the Kestrel fits great and I love the feel. As a backpacking rookie, I still like having all of the little compartments and whatnot. It seems pretty heavy, though. I know that Quassar mentioned a blue foam pad at Walmart that might be a cheap replacement (assuming it's still comfortable and lighter) from my current pad.

[denefi]

But you can have a pretty light base weight without spending a huge amount of money -- you just have to choose wisely and put the big bucks into a couple of carefully chosen items.

For example, find a used Tarptent Moment or Contrail for maybe $150 or so, instead of the $500 cuben shelter. Pick a $20 set of Dri Ducks over a $200 rain shell (and the Dri Ducks are lighter!) Make an alcohol stove out of components you have in your recycling bin, and buy an $8 Grease Pot at Walmart -- a very cheap and very light kitchen set. Buy hiking sticks at Walmart for 1/10 the cost of Lekis. Buy hiking clothes at Target for 1/10 the cost of name-brand outdoor clothes (their synthetic athletic stuff is actually very good.) Use a $10 closed cell foam pad instead of a $200 Neoair.

Put the real money into two things: a really good sleeping bag, and a good pack. Based on where you are, a good 20-F down bag that weighs about 2 pounds should be good for most of the regular hiking season. These can be found on sale for $300 or so (Marmot Helium, for example.) A 2-3 pound pack with a frame that can carry about 30 pounds is perfect for lightweight hiking -- if the REI Flash packs fit you well, they are often on sale for $150 or so, but my personal choice is the ULA Circuit for $225. We own three of them

Good luck and happy trails.

Very helpful, thank you! I actually just splurged on a pretty light Marmot shell at $225. Ties into the lack of restraint I just wrote about in my response to the other three responders. I'd like to develop more of an overall plan so that I don't do that for every item. (Great shell, though )

The closed cell foam pad and grease pot seem to be popular choices. Will definitely look at those. What's your take on the Kestrel 48, which I just responded about in my prior entry? It's on the higher end of the weight range you posted.

Also, great trail name.

[Lyle]

You state you are new to backpacking.

I offer a word of caution. Ultralight gear is more fragile than conventional gear. Light weight gear is in between. These three classes require three levels of care and experience to use effectively and safely.

I would not recommend that someone "new to backpacking" start out with Ultralight gear. Lightweight (ULA, most Tarptents and similar) would better suit you if you keep in mind that these products are not TOTALLY bombproof, and that they usually require some compromises. Save the Ultralight, bleeding edge products for after you learn how to care for and utilize your equipment to it's max. Conventional and Lightweight equipment offers you a margin of error that Ultralight does not.

Millions of people have completed long distance trails with conventional and lightweight gear. Gear will not determine your success or failure, particularly at your relatively young age.

All this is to just add caution to your decisions. Many folks on here get the idea that if they carry more than a 12 or 15 lb base weight, that they are doing it "wrong". Not so. Yes, weight is important to your enjoyment, but not so important that you should be risking equipment failure or inadequate protection due to your lack of experience.

This coming from someone who is always moving toward a lighter pack, and who has a well under 15 lb base weight. But I still do not recommend this for beginners.

[colorado_rob]

You state you are new to backpacking.

I offer a word of caution. Ultralight gear is more fragile than conventional gear. Light weight gear is in between. These three classes require three levels of care and experience to use effectively and safely.

I would not recommend that someone "new to backpacking" start out with Ultralight gear...

I respectfully disagree for the most part. For example, assuming the total kit is fairly light, how would a UL backpack and UL sleeping bag be any more difficult or require more experience to use than heavier stuff??? It's doesn't. Regarding a tent though, I agree, for example, that a UL tarp is not a good choice to start with, but these days you can get a full, simple to pitch full tent at right around 2 pounds (the Big Agnes Fly Creek UL1, for example). I have pretty much nothing but UL stuff, and I don't go through any extra effort to take care of it, and it holds up just fine. Cuben fabric, for example, is extremely durable.

I do think that the OP should take a couple weekend trips with whatever he/she winds up with to get used to this shiny new gear before hitting a long thru hike.

[bigcranky]

how would a UL backpack and UL sleeping bag be any more difficult or require more experience to use than heavier stuff???

There are a lot of things called "ultralight" out there that aren't really. That 2 pound tent would not show up in most UL lists (sub 10 pound base weights.) The 6 ounce tarp would.

Ultralight is a system. Most true ultralighters have very few or no extra clothing items, and a sleeping bag or quilt that is right at the edge for the expected temperatures. If a winter storm blows in unexpectedly, it takes a fair amount of experience to handle that with the items in a true ultralighter's pack.

A real ultralight pack is usually a frameless rucksack that weighs under a pound and carries at most 20-22 pounds in comfort. Yes, they are generally tougher than they look, but loading up a 7 ounce cuben frameless pack with 30 pounds of gear and clothing isn't going to work on so many levels.

So I'm with Lyle on this, though I think maybe he wasn't clear on the "system" part of UL. It's easy to start with lightweight gear, like a Tarptent or that Fly Creek tent, and get out there without a whole lot of experience, especially in mild weather. But the real bleeding edge UL stuff requires some experience and care.

[Malto]

I do think that the OP should take a couple weekend trips with whatever he/she winds up with to get used to this shiny new gear before hitting a long thru hike.

Couldn't agree more.

[bigcranky]

[QUOTE=denefi;1878297]What's your take on the Kestrel 48, which I just responded about in my prior entry? It's on the higher end of the weight range you posted.
/QUOTE]

Keep the Kestrel 48 for now. It's a fine pack -- I have its baby brother for day hikes with heavy camera gear. Your pack will work with lightweight hiking gear pretty much indefinitely. After you get some experience on the trail, you'll have a better idea what you want in a pack.

[shakey_snake]

what if I told you, you could hit an 8 lb baseweight without any $cuben$ $fiber$ or $titanium$ and still have an inflatable pad and a stove? It's entirely possible.

Spending a bucketload on cuben is pretty unnecessary, given the alternatives--just find those. And try to make everything else lighter, first.

[colorado_rob]

There are a lot of things called "ultralight" out there that aren't really. That 2 pound tent would not show up in most UL lists (sub 10 pound base weights.) The 6 ounce tarp would.

Ultralight is a system. Most true ultralighters have very few or no extra clothing items, and a sleeping bag or quilt that is right at the edge for the expected temperatures. .

I hear ya, but I go by the definitions in Don Ladigin's book "Lighten Up", and he says a 2 pound tent is "ultralight", whereas a 6 ounce tarp would be "sub-ultalight". I do not propose that a newbie go with a complete Ultralight system just yet, but I do suggest he/she start right out with at least some UL pieces, again, like a 2 or less pound tent and a 2 or less pound sleeping bag and pack (all defined as UL in that book). There are 18 ounce, 20 degree sleeping bags out there now. Do you suggest carrying a bag warmer than 20 degrees on an AT hike starting in the spring?

[denefi]

Millions of people have completed long distance trails with conventional and lightweight gear. Gear will not determine your success or failure, particularly at your relatively young age.

Good perspective, thanks. I'm also planning to get strong and fit prior to heading out, which should help.

I do think that the OP should take a couple weekend trips with whatever he/she winds up with to get used to this shiny new gear before hitting a long thru hike.

Couldn't agree more.

I totally agree. I have several long weekends scheduled for this summer. I'm outside of Boston so will be doing most of my hiking in VT, ME, and NH. I'm planning to start out having a base camp set up and doing long day hikes, and then eventually get into some backpacking. I have two separate weeks of vacation scheduled for next fall and am planning to use both of those for backpacking trips. I figure that should be more than enough to prep. Also, wilderness first aid next December. I imagine this last skill is oftentimes overlooked by us new guys.

Keep the Kestrel 48 for now. It's a fine pack -- I have its baby brother for day hikes with heavy camera gear. Your pack will work with lightweight hiking gear pretty much indefinitely. After you get some experience on the trail, you'll have a better idea what you want in a pack.

Sweet, thanks. I really do like the pack - was psyched when I got it.

what if I told you, you could hit an 8 lb baseweight without any $cuben$ $fiber$ or $titanium$ and still have an inflatable pad and a stove?

I would ask you to elaborate!



Thanks, all. Invaluable.

[quasarr]

Sooooo ... is it too late to return that Marmot jacket? You can also get an O2 rain jacket for $30, or a Frogg Toggs jacket + pants for $22.

http://o2rainwear.com/2011/03/original-hooded-jacket/

https://www.froggtoggsraingear.com/DriDucks.shtm (don't be fooled by the pic of the boy and his father with their external frame packs ... this rain suit is also beloved by UL hikers on a budget)

IMO, some marketing claims are always a lie. One is "no-scrub cleaner" and another is "breathable rain jacket." Maybe the extra $Texas for a fancy fabric means you can hike fifteen more minutes before you are completely soaked with sweat. So now I only buy the cheap stuff, it does the same thing for 1/10 the price! Just my 0.02

[quasarr]

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, and I love buying a shiny new piece of gear as much as the next person! But I'm saying that for $225, I would rather buy a zpacks Arc Blast that I believe is worth the money, instead of a rain jacket

[denefi]

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, and I love buying a shiny new piece of gear as much as the next person! But I'm saying that for $225, I would rather buy a zpacks Arc Blast that I believe is worth the money, instead of a rain jacket

Haha point definitely taken. I'll check to see if I have the receipt at home. I bought it at REI about a month ago, so they could probably just look it up as well.