Creepy situation at Max Patch...

[Nutbrown]

Last week, four of us,all girls, hiked from Max Patch to Hot Springs. We then drove back to Max Patch to retrieve the second car. Well, my old beater didn't make it up the gravel road to the parking area. As I was pulling to the side, a pick-up started to pass. We asked if they wouldn't mind giving my friends a lift to the top of the mtn, about 4 miles. The two older men seemed excited to help, so my three friends hopped in the back of the truck as I limped my beater back to the bottom of the mtn.

As soon as the pick-up was around the corner, my friends told me the men pulled the truck over and both got out and approached the back. They then asked my friends if they 'could tell a tale', saying that they were going to show them off to their friends. After a time, in which my friends became incredibly uncomfortable, they drove on. The driver stopped again when they got to their wagon train friends, many more men, then they did take my friends to the parking area. From what the men told my friends, this is a group that travels from place to place via horse drawn wagons. ...besides scaring the crap out of my friends, nothing happened.

***I do think that the men in the pick-up did not mean any physical harm, but I can't imagine they were ignorant as to how scary they came across. If anyone knows this group as friendly and wonderful, I don't mean to give them a bad rap. I am just reporting on how my friends felt that their safety was in jeopardy.

I guess my friends could have jumped out of the back and ran away, but they were in flip flops and without any gear.

Just wanted to put the word out about the situation. I am a very trusting person, especially with the hiking community, maybe to a fault. This made me re-assess how willing I am to put myself, or my friends, into an odd situation.

[fiddlehead]

I am guessing they had a smartphone.
I would think it a good idea if they would have filmed the whole thing, or as much as possible.
Sounds like it turned out OK anyway.

[Cookerhiker]

...but I can't imagine they were ignorant as to how scary they came across. If anyone knows this group as friendly and wonderful, I don't mean to give them a bad rap. I am just reporting on how my friends felt that their safety was in jeopardy....

Your friends' discomfort was entirely understandable and rational. Those guys were clueless and insensitive.

[vamelungeon]

I guess I have an entirely different take on this. I think these "older men" meant no harm, and wanted the girls to tell some incredible story to their friends, and really just wanted to give the girls a ride. I do know people who do this "wagon train" thing as a hobby. I have a question- Were the men "creepy" because they weren't young and attractive? I've often found that "creepiness" depends on the attractiveness and age of the "creeps" in the eyes of young women. I don't see where anyone is accused of doing or saying anything threatening. I'm a middle aged man and don't want to go around scaring young women.

[Teacher & Snacktime]

I'm a middle aged man and don't want to go around scaring young women.

Not intentionally, but we can't always control how our thoughts/actions will be perceived.

I believe the OP clearly stated that she didn't believe the gentlemen meant any harm, and it was the oddity of the situation without understanding that caused the sense of vulnerability and discomfort. Personally, I don't think the age of the guys is pertinent beyond description of the circumstance...that sense of being outnumbered by strangers in an uncertain circumstance would probably still exist (at least for me).

Sometimes a simple phrase, unconsciously spoken, can make one uncomfortable.

[Old_Man]

Not intentionally, but we can't always control how our thoughts/actions will be perceived.

Nor should we...

[Old_Man]

I have a question- Were the men "creepy" because they weren't young and attractive? I've often found that "creepiness" depends on the attractiveness and age of the "creeps" in the eyes of young women.

I mean, I can see where their actions could be seen as creepy. But they asked permission before they drove the girls to their camp, no? What would have really been creepy is if they'd not asked permission first. If OPs friends were uncomfortable when the truck stopped, why didn't they just get out and walk back to their friend?

[bangorme]

I NEVER pick up women for just this reason. I remember there was a case in Vermont where a guy picked up a female hitchhiker. When he dropped her off she stated that unless paid her, she was going say that he raped her. In the 60's, I picked up female hitchhikers all the time. Would I do it today? Not on you life.

[HooKooDooKu]

...Were the men "creepy" because they weren't young and attractive? I've often found that "creepiness" depends on the attractiveness and age of the "creeps" in the eyes of young women...

From my point of view, the creepiness in this story comes from someone agreeing to give you a lift, then make an unscheduled stop and request that you "perform". It doesn't mater if the driver was young or old, male or female.

[rocketsocks]

From my point of view, the creepiness in this story comes from someone agreeing to give you a lift, then make an unscheduled stop and request that you "perform". It doesn't mater if the driver was young or old, male or female.

That would set my creep meter to red line...Thanks for the lift...see yas6455.gif

[Nutbrown]

Indeed, the creepiness stemmed from the truck pulling around the corner, just out of site, stopping, and the men getting out to ask my friends if they could tell a lie about what was happening.
First meeting, they were granfatherly and I had no qualms asking for help. ...I do believe that they really only wanted to play a joke on their fellows, acting like they scored three beautiful women. But the way they went about getting that idea across was very threatening.
Hind site showed them to be innocent yet horrible jokers, but in the moment, they were percieved as being terrifying. My friends outnumbered the men in the truck, thats why the three of them went. When the truck pulled into the wagon train area, then they were outnumbered and extremely nervous.

They did not get out of the truck for a few reasons... the flip flops they were wearing, being out on a gravel road walking when the men could easily follow in the truck, and probably the real answer being that they were freaked but still not sure they were in real danger. I hope that makes sense.

[Nutbrown]

And there was no permission asked to stop at the camp. It was on the way up to the top.

[Nutbrown]

Fiddlehead, they did have a phone, and took pictures of them in the truck and the license plate. No service to send it out, but they did do that.

[Sailing_Faith]

I am guessing they had a smartphone.
I would think it a good idea if they would have filmed the whole thing, or as much as possible.
Sounds like it turned out OK anyway.

I know you are referring to recording it.. But I can say there is nothing for signal in much of those parts.

was lucky to get a ride there myself, my plan had been to call for a ride.. Not a good plan!

[quasarr]

I have a question- Were the men "creepy" because they weren't young and attractive? I've often found that "creepiness" depends on the attractiveness and age of the "creeps" in the eyes of young women. I don't see where anyone is accused of doing or saying anything threatening. I'm a middle aged man and don't want to go around scaring young women.

Yes. Attractiveness, whether based on looks or anything else, is exactly the dividing line between creepy or not. If a man pursues a woman who is not attracted to him, then his advances are not welcome and he is being creepy. It is all about consent. Women don't owe their time and attention to men. And men are not entitled to the attention of women.

So to avoid situations like the one mentioned in the OP, just remember that if women don't want to have a conversation or something, it is ok and they should be left alone.

[quasarr]

Just to clarify, in the OP was the men might have thought they were perfectly friendly. But the problem is that they treated the women not like fellow humans who just wanted a ride, but instead like a prize to be shown off to their friends. Men often do not understand how bad that feels. They didn't even consider that the women might not want to impress their friends or spend time with them. It is just plain disregard for others.

[bangorme]

Yes. Attractiveness, whether based on looks or anything else, is exactly the dividing line between creepy or not. If a man pursues a woman who is not attracted to him, then his advances are not welcome and he is being creepy. It is all about consent. Women don't owe their time and attention to men. And men are not entitled to the attention of women.

So to avoid situations like the one mentioned in the OP, just remember that if women don't want to have a conversation or something, it is ok and they should be left alone.

Actually, to avoid situations like the one mentioned, don't hitchhike or accept rides from men you don't feel comfortable conversing with. If you want to be left alone, be self-sufficient and walk. It doesn't appear like these men asked anything outlandish from the gal(s), even though it is nothing I'd ever ask from someone I didn't know.

When I was in high school and college I hitchhiked all the time. Most of the time the person that picked me up did so for the conversation. I was grateful for the ride and was happy to talk. If I'd sat there like a sullen prune I wouldn't have blamed them a bit for letting me find another ride.

[ams212001]

Actually, to avoid situations like the one mentioned, don't hitchhike or accept rides from men you don't feel comfortable conversing with. If you want to be left alone, be self-sufficient and walk. It doesn't appear like these men asked anything outlandish from the gal(s), even though it is nothing I'd ever ask from someone I didn't know.

When I was in high school and college I hitchhiked all the time. Most of the time the person that picked me up did so for the conversation. I was grateful for the ride and was happy to talk. If I'd sat there like a sullen prune I wouldn't have blamed them a bit for letting me find another ride.

I don't think the issue was not wanting to be social. The issue was how the men went about requesting an introduction to friends. That was not part of the original plan. They probably would have gladly talked to the guys at the end of trip but the side trip is very off putting. Also, making the request out of line of sight of the friend is a red alert. Thankfully, everything ended well but I would have been on edge with the request as well.

It doesn't have to be an outlandish request in order to be scary.

[Skyline]

I can see how it might be seen as creepy. And I can see how it might just be the no-harm-intended way of mountain folk.

[rocketsocks]

Just to clarify, in the OP was the men might have thought they were perfectly friendly. But the problem is that they treated the women not like fellow humans who just wanted a ride, but instead like a prize to be shown off to their friends. Men often do not understand how bad that feels. They didn't even consider that the women might not want to impress their friends or spend time with them. It is just plain disregard for others.

Bingo!

That's not weird, that's not weird at all the whole story reeks of creep.