Anyone done this loop?

[blue indian]

Beginning at Deep Creek

Day 1: Deep creek trail up to cs# 56 or 57
Day 2: Martins Gap to Sunkota Ridge and stay at cs#52
Day 3: Thomas Divide to Deeplow to Indian Creek Trail back to Deep Creek

My map is getting worn out and hard to read but I think thats right...

Im basically trying to show some friends who have never seen the Smokies before what an awesome place it is AND hike in an area/trails I havent hiked before. Ideally I would like to take them on a 2night 3day loop with at least one view and some water features. The only hike I can think of that does this is the maddron bald loop....but I dont want to repeat. Too many other trails to explore.

[blue indian]

I should probably also mention that I want to avoid the AT for this trip...

[HooKooDooKu]

I haven't done the part of your loop that goes from CS#56 to CS#52. But I have hiked the full length of Deep Creek Trail and I've hiked the path from CS#52 back down to Deep Creek Campground.

I don't think you're going to get much in the way of a view on that loop. Newton Bald (CS#52) is a great camp site (IMHO). But it is a bald that was reforested long ago. And I don't recall any views hiking the length of Deep Creek nor the path from Newton Bald to Deep Creek.

But if you are looking for two night loops that include a view and a water feature, I've got a few suggestions:

1. Twenty Mile Ranger Station to CS#92, Long Hungry Ridge and Gregory Bald to CS#13, and Wolf Ridge to return to Twenty Mile Ranger Station.
A nice modification to this loop is to exchange CS#92 for CS#113 allowing you a good opportunity for a brief side trip to see Shuckstack Fire Tower.
Either way, I recall a water fall soon after leaving the ranger station, and you've got a couple of creek crossings near CS#92 and some bridged creek crossings on the lower sections of Wolf Ridge. Additionally, views will be spectacular from Gregory Bald.

2. Big Creek Campground to CS#37. Then utilize Swallowfork Trail to access CS#38 right beside the Mt Sterling Fire Tower. Then Baxter Creek trail to return to Big Creek.
The entire 1st day is along Big Creek, and includes a waterfall. Views can be had from the Mt Sterling Fire Tower.

3. Start with Middle Prong Trail at the end of the Tremont road. Then follow Greenbrier Ridge trail to Derrick Knob Shelter. Follow the AT to Spence Field Shelter. Complete the loop by hiking down Bote Mtn Trail to West Prong Trail to Tremont road. A 3 mile long hike of Tremont road finishes the loop.
There's a couple of water falls the 1st day. The 2nd day has some great views from the AT, especially around Thunderhead Mtn.

4. Combine Rabbit Creek Trail and Abrams Fall Trail along with CS#15 & CS#17 to make a loop between Abram's Falls Parking Lot and Abrams Campground. The loop can be done from either end (but starting/ending the loop from Abram's Falls Parking balances the distances better over the 3 days).
This loop is rich with water features as you have two unbridged (easy) creek crossings and Abram's Falls. The loop isn't going to be rich with very many views (except of Abram's Creek) with the exception of some views crossing the mountain peak between CS#15 and Abrams Camp Ground.

5. Start with Hyatt Ridge Trail from Strait Fork Road. Use Enole Creek and Hughes Ridge to access Peck's Corner Shelter. Then follow the AT to Tricorner Knob and turn right onto Balsam Mtn trail to reach Laurel Gap Shelter. Finish the loop with Balsam Mtn and Beech Gap trails to return to Strait Fork Road. A 1.5 mile road walk of Strait Fork Road will complete the loop.
This loop isn't strong on water features... but there are a few creek crossings the 1st day (one via a trestle bridge at CS#47, and a minor unbridged creek crossing farther along. A couple of views are to be had along the AT portion of the hike.

6. Start from Clingman's Dome parking lot and make a two night loop out of Forney Ridge and Forney Creek trails. Views will be had at Clingman's Dome Parking Lot and Andrews Bald. Forney Creek will include 5 major unbridged creek crossings (dangerous in high water). These are the most difficult creek crossings I've encountered in the park so far (I've only completed about 60% of the trails). Your two nights can be either CS#64 and CS#69 (CS#64 obviously requires you hike down and back up Springhouse Branch), or CS#71 and CS#68.

7. Make a two night loop out of Forney Creek, Jonas Creek, Welch Ridge, and the AT staying at CS#70 and Siler's Bald shelter. Water will include Forney Creek and Jonas Creek. Jonas has 4 unbridged creek crossings. Difficult like Forney Creek but not quite as bad. Views will be had along the AT and Clingman's Dome (and Andrew's Bald if you want to include a side trip on your way to Forney Creek).

For a much longer alternative, replace the Forney Creek leg above with Noland Creek. Start by heading toward Siler's Bald shelter and spend the 1st night at CS#70. Then hike all the way down to the Tunnel at the end of the 'Road to Nowhere'. A 0.7 mile hike along the 'Road to Nowhere' will get you to the Noland Creek trailhead where you can hike to CS#62 for the 2nd night. Finish the loop with Noland Divide to access Clingman's Dome Road. From Clingman's Dome Road, you can either turn left and hike 1.5 miles along the road back to the parking lot, or you can turn right and hike 0.8 miles until you reach a saddle point that will allow you access to the AT. You can then hike the AT back to Clingman's Dome.

8. If you really like wet feet (and can handle the distance) you can start from Fontana Dam, hike to Eagle Creek, and hike Eagle Creek to CS#97. The second day, finish hiking Eagle Creek to the AT and follow the AT to Mollies Ridge Shelter. The third day, follow the AB back to Fontana Dam, taking a side trip to Shuckstack Fire Tower. There might be a few views along the AT, but the best views will be from the fire tower.

[HooKooDooKu]

I should probably also mention that I want to avoid the AT for this trip...

Apparently that hadn't been posted before I started typing.

Suggestions 1a, 3, 5, 6, 7, and 8 include portions of the AT. But only 3, 5, 7a, and 8 require you to stay at a Shelter.

[TNhiker]

I was thinking along the same lines as Hookoodooku----

no view from 52....

and while I haven't done those trails as a loop---done em in other various ways...

and like Hoo----I was also going to suggest the long hungry ridge---Gregory's bald--wolf ridge..

to me----that's a more impressive trip for your friends...

they may hate you on the uphills though...

[blue indian]

Ive never done the Gregory bald loop but I've always wanted to. Is cs#13 open? I thought I read it was closed for bear activity...


Hoo, thanks for all the suggestions. I'm sure I will be able to pick something out of all those hikes. Thanks!

[madgoat]

I just did all the trails around deep creek last spring, and I find several other areas of the park much more impressive. Several of the trails in that area are old road beds that they now allow mountain bikes to use. (Thomas Divide Trail, Indian Creek Motor Trail, and a section of Deeplow Gap)

There are a couple of highlights though. Little Creek falls was very cool. It is located on the Deeplow Gap Trail between Thomas Divide Trail and Cooper Creek Trail. Juney Whank Falls are pretty neat as well. (located on the Juney Whank Falls Trail... go figure). The best (and only) views that I encountered in this area was the great views of Bryson City and Fontana Lake from the cool rocky outcroppings along Noland Divide Trail between Deep Creek and Pole Road Creek Trail.

If I were trying to show off parts of the park to others, I would not pick this area. I would most likely pick a loop around Gregory Bald (staying at 13).

[madgoat]

Ive never done the Gregory bald loop but I've always wanted to. Is cs#13 open?

Campsite 13 is now open. I just made reservations for it last week.

Here is the current closings list from the GSMNP website

Bear Closures - areas that are closed due to bear activity. Please readWhat Do I Do If I See A Bear? for important safety information about bears.
• Backcountry Campsites 18, 24, 29
• Mount Le Conte Shelter
• Spence Field Shelter

Bear Warnings - areas where bears are active. Please read What Do I Do If I See A Bear? for important safety information about bears.
• Gregory Bald Trail
• Rainbow Falls Trail
• Mollies Ridge Shelter
• Russell Field Shelter
• Backcountry Campsites 13, 90, 93, 113

Other Backcountry Closures and Warnings
• Chimney Tops Trail will be closed weekly on Monday-Thursday from through December 11 for trail rehabilitation work. The trail will be open on weekends.
• Scott Mountain Trail is closed from campsite #6 to Schoolhouse Gap. Campsite #6 is open.
• Backcountry Campsite 11 is closed
• Backcountry Campsite 16 - the water source is dry. Pack in additional water if planning to camp here.

[TNhiker]

The best (and only) views that I encountered in this area was the great views of Bryson City and Fontana Lake from the cool rocky outcroppings along Noland Divide Trail between Deep Creek and Pole Road Creek Trail.

that's kinda an overlook that is passed by....

as in, its a great overlook, but hardly anyone talks about it or suggests it....

i did it about 15 years ago and had completely forgotten about it, but did it about 3 years ago again and was very impressed.....

the trail rides the ridge for a bit, and then the rock outcropping has views from it looking down to bryson city and what not......

however, unless you combine deep creek trail into this---there's no campsites up in that area....

[blue indian]

Campsite 13 is now open. I just made reservations for it last week.

Here is the current closings list from the GSMNP website

Bear Closures - areas that are closed due to bear activity. Please readWhat Do I Do If I See A Bear? for important safety information about bears.
• Backcountry Campsites 18, 24, 29
• Mount Le Conte Shelter
• Spence Field Shelter

Bear Warnings - areas where bears are active. Please read What Do I Do If I See A Bear? for important safety information about bears.
• Gregory Bald Trail
• Rainbow Falls Trail
• Mollies Ridge Shelter
• Russell Field Shelter
• Backcountry Campsites 13, 90, 93, 113

Other Backcountry Closures and Warnings
• Chimney Tops Trail will be closed weekly on Monday-Thursday from through December 11 for trail rehabilitation work. The trail will be open on weekends.
• Scott Mountain Trail is closed from campsite #6 to Schoolhouse Gap. Campsite #6 is open.
• Backcountry Campsite 11 is closed
• Backcountry Campsite 16 - the water source is dry. Pack in additional water if planning to camp here.

Thanks for the awesome info

[blue indian]

I think im going to do the Gregory Bald loop. Im just not sure where I want to stay the first night. Either at cs#92 or #113. But I have a few questions...

The only reason I would go over to #113 is on HooKoos suggestion to see Shuckstack Firetower. It looks like we would take Twentymile Trail to the AT and take a right to check out the fire tower then head north on the AT to #113 Does this sound right? Any preferences between #92 and #113?

Anyone have a status on the water situation in the area? Brown book says #113 is at birch spring. Is there an actual spring here? And where is the best place to snag water before heading up to #13?

[blue indian]

Apparently cs#113 is closed due to bear activity

[sliderule]

Any preferences between #92 and #113?

CS 92 is one of the nicest backcountry campsites in the park. And it's not on the AT.

[TNhiker]

well..........if 113 were open----id take that one.....

i think its one of the best laid out campsites in the park.....

after they tore down the shelter about 15 or so years ago, they put in a series of tent pads/sites using the spring drainage and the two little ridges as a way to separate.....

although i stayed there with no other groups (winter time)----this campsite by way of the tent pads, offers some degree of privacy......

and yeah, there's a spring there-----its right at where the shelter used to sit.......

and what they did, was leave a small portion of the walls (like sitting level or so), in a common area with a fire ring......

not sure how it will be with the leaves on trees---but in winter time---one can get great view of gregorys bald and that ridgeline..........and, by way of where i tented---it was right outside my door making for a great site to see after waking up........

but, if i were to do this loop----i'd stay at 92 i think.....

not sure if i'd do the added mileage just to go over to shuckstack and that way...

especially, depending upon how everyone in your group is used to doing uphills in the smokies.......

snag water before heading up to #13?

that's easy...

Moore Spring....

after you come up long hungry ridge, and make the left on gregory's bald trail----you'll go a short distance to the intersection.....to the left, and its carved into the intersection sign with a H2O, you see a trail......its not an official trail but its been traveled enough that you'll recognize it......go a short bit out to the spring....

one of the best, and especially at that elevation, springs in the park....

ive never heard of it going dry.........

it much better than the spring at 13 a short bit down from the campsite......i find that one to be a hog waller and a place where horses tend to muck......

just bring a water storage device as you only really want to go to moore spring once as its maybe a mile ish from the campsite....

at moore spring---you can either double back to the intersection and go up and over the bald.............or basically right from the spring---head up the wash and eventually you'll run into the trail coming up the bald.......its a lesser traveled way, so its a little tougher to find and do.............i did it coming down from the bald about 3 years ago and its easy to do coming down..........

hope that helps.....

[HooKooDooKu]

Where is the best place to snag water before heading up to #13?

Like TNHiker said... Moore Spring.

The trail to Moore Spring is basically at a 4 way intersection at Rich Gap where Gregory Ridge intersects with Gregory Bald. The trail map makes it look like a 4 way with Long Hungary Ridge. But the Gregory Ridge intersection and Long Hungary Ridge intersection are about 0.1 miles apart.

The trail to Moore Spring is about 0.3 miles long. If you double back to the Gregory Ridge intersection, you'll add about 0.5 miles to your trip compared to taking the short cut up the mountain. The trail up the mountain is located just before the start of the clearing. But if you have any problems finding it, just start walking up hill. It's a simple bushwack and it's impossible to miss Gregory Bald trail about 0.1 miles away.

The thing I like to do is eat a lunch at Moore Spring, then water up with all the water I'll need for dinner, the rest of the day, and the start of the next morning. Otherwise its almost a 0.25 mile hike down hill from CS#13 to reach the water source (and it's no where near as good as Moore Spring).

You can watch the Temporary Closures website to see what sites are closed (which at this moment shows #13 & 113 both open, but in the Bear Warning list).

Another thing I like to suggest with the Gregory Bald loop... since you ate lunch at Moore Spring, don't hang out on Gregory Bald very long during the afternoon with the crowds likely to be there. In stead, head on down to CS#13 and setup camp. Then, that evening, grab your food bag and stove and head back up to Gregory Bald for dinner and sunset. The day hikers will all be gone (unless they are prepared to hike in the dark).

[TNhiker]

yup......after setting up camp, take a nap and rest and head back to bald......

if its a full moon or clear, or starry out-----oh, my.............

[HooKooDooKu]

The only reason I would go over to #113 is on HooKoos suggestion to see Shuckstack Firetower. It looks like we would take Twentymile Trail to the AT and take a right to check out the fire tower then head north on the AT to #113 Does this sound right?

Bingo!

Any preferences between #92 and #113?

From Twenty Mile Ranger Station to #113, it's a 2,500' to 3,000' climb in about 6.5 miles.
The second day will add another 1,500'. It doesn't sound like much, but there's a couple of real steep sections within that.

If you go via Long Hungry Ridge, the climb to #92 is a little over 1,000'.
The second day is a 2,500' climb, but the bulk of is very consistent (i.e. no steep sections).


I wouldn't call #92 one of the nicest camp sites... at least not since a bunch of trees came down a few years ago. It's a much more open campsite than it used to be.
The water source at #113 can be iffy in the fall (if the weather has been dry). But #92 is by a creek.

[TNhiker]

if the leaves are coloring up----it'd be worth the trip to shuckstack.....

if it's rainy, i wouldnt do it.........

[madgoat]

I think Shuckstack has one of the most dramatic views in the smokies. Shucstack itself is a nice rocky peak that sticks proud of its ridgeline and falls of steeply after the peak. Then add in the firetower that takes you even further up above the surrounding ridges and peaks.... I must admit I was clinging hard to the railings on the firetower, even though I am typically not bothered by heights. If it is a clear day, Shuckstack is definitely worth doing.

[blue indian]

Thanks for all the info folks. I know alot of this has been said before and I tried to dig it up but not much luck so I appreciate the repeating of info.

Since cs#113 is closed I guess cs#92 it is.....although we may make the trip over to shuckstack if the group is feeling up to it. None of us are novice hikers so hopefully we can make it happen.

it sounds like the consensus is to do this hike counter-clockwise. Would that be correct?