Trails in New Hampshire's White Mountains are they rocky, harder than 10+ years ago?

[DavidNH]

I've been hiking off and on in the Whites for a couple decades, though less so since my 06 thru hike. I don't know if it's just me or if it's that I'm not in the hiking shape I was during and prior to the 06 thru hike. Or maybe one can't do at age of 51 that he could in his 30's. But these trails are harder than ever. For example.. this past weekend I hiked the Webster-Jackson Trail from route 302 to the top of Mt Jackson (4052 feet). 5 mile round trip. Felt like I negotiated a boulder field much of the way up and the last .02 mile or so I had to haul up what seemed like small cliffs than hike up very steep ledge to the top. back down I was wiped.. the following day my body felt stiff all over. SO all in all.. four hours up, 3 hours down, half hour on top and 4 hours of driving. yeah.. long day.

So white mountains regulars.. is it age, conditioning, or are these trails really getting harder? I have to say it takes some of the fun out of the hike.. worrying more about "getting there" than enjoying the moment, and I am very much an enjoy the moment type of person! Any of you have hiking experiences like this where a familiar trail is way harder than you remember it?

[peakbagger]

Age, Conditioning are the key words. This weekend was atypical weather, it was darn hot and that takes a lot out of many folks, including myself. I expect that was the main reason for the hard hike. Plenty of over 50 and over 60 hikers on VFTT who are routinely hiking multiple 4 ks in a day and not all of them are athlete. On occasion I hike with Big Earl who is in his sixties and routinely does 16 to 20 mile summit walks despite having had heart surgery several years ago. Heck if you come to a VFTT event, you may discover that you are probably on the young side of the group. If you want to get some perspective check out the New England over 50 hiking group on Meetup. They used to advertise double book time for hikes but they still get out and hike and many of the members are 60 plus.

Conditioning - My rule of thumb is I can skip easily skip one weekend hiking and possibly two without a loss of conditioning but if I skip three I will regret it the next weekend I go hiking. A daily fast walk helps but no substitute for hiking up steep stuff. If you are sore the next day, that's a sign that your conditioning needs some work.

Pace is important, you need to figure out a slow steady pace where you don't need to stop every few minutes. On hot day that means it may take you longer than you think.

I have been hiking in the whites routinely since 1987 and the trails haven't gotten any harder, I just find that over the years I have to be more careful to keep my conditioning up. I did a Madison Gulf Osgood Loop day hike and a Six Husbands/Sphynx day hike two weeks later plus did a Presi Lite (Randolph to Highland Center along Gulfside and Crawford path skipping the summits), Franconia Ridge and several other 4k day hikes this summer. The hardest day hike was a Belknap Range hike on hot humid day and don't think I ever broke 3 k on that trip but it was definitely the hardest by far due to the temp.

The other aspect for some folks is long term health issues start cropping up in the fifties. Dan Doan the author of the 50 hikes series wrote a long out of print book that I think was titled Our Last Backpack, and one of thread through the book is his major decline in stamina during the trip. It ended up after the hike that he had early stages of diabetes. I have run into others with similar issues that seem to kick in in the fifties.

Most local hikers enjoy fall hiking with typically cooler temps and I expect that if you can get out again in normal temps the hike may go longer.

[Pedaling Fool]

Well, I would think there's not much rerouting in the Whites since it's mostly rock -- so I don't think the trails have changed much. However, even if there were some rerouting it's a good chance that the trails would be made easier, since that seems to be the trend nowaday.

One thing that isn't in question is your ageing. We all lose conditoning as we age (those people who say {me included} "I'm in better shape now at 50 than I was at 30..." were simply not in the best of shape at 30).

However, the rate one loses conditioning is very much changeable and since most of use were not in top shape in our younger years can be in better shape at 50, than they were at 30.

The body is lazy and it doesn't want to do the work necessary to be the best it could be; luckily you have a brain and know what's best for the body. Imagine if all you do is one activity, such as hiking and all you do is that activity over basically the same terrain. At first you'll see improvement after every hike, but eventually you'll get to a point where you are very much aware of your capabilities, because you hit a plateau and there's no more improvement, not that you're the best you can be, but rather, because that's all you demanded of your body. The problem is that eventually you'll start seeing a decline, that's the problem, the decline.

We all decline, but I want to be at a very high level, so that even at 50 I know I can give 20-40 year olds a run.

But what's crazy is I haven't started declining yet, for the most part, I'm still making improvements. Most everyone can do this at my age (virtually 50), but it take hard work. Don't fear ageing; defy it.

When I do start declining, I'll accept it, because I would know I did everything possible to keep myself strong and healthy and I'll still be reaping the rewards at whatever age I attain.

[DavidNH]

Age, Conditioning are the key words. This weekend was atypical weather, it was darn hot and that takes a lot out of many folks, including myself. I expect that was the main reason for the hard hike. Plenty of over 50 and over 60 hikers on VFTT who are routinely hiking multiple 4 ks in a day and not all of them are athlete. On occasion I hike with Big Earl who is in his sixties and routinely does 16 to 20 mile summit walks despite having had heart surgery several years ago. Heck if you come to a VFTT event, you may discover that you are probably on the young side of the group. If you want to get some perspective check out the New England over 50 hiking group on Meetup. They used to advertise double book time for hikes but they still get out and hike and many of the members are 60 plus.

Conditioning - My rule of thumb is I can skip easily skip one weekend hiking and possibly two without a loss of conditioning but if I skip three I will regret it the next weekend I go hiking. A daily fast walk helps but no substitute for hiking up steep stuff. If you are sore the next day, that's a sign that your conditioning needs some work.

Pace is important, you need to figure out a slow steady pace where you don't need to stop every few minutes. On hot day that means it may take you longer than you think.

I have been hiking in the whites routinely since 1987 and the trails haven't gotten any harder, I just find that over the years I have to be more careful to keep my conditioning up. I did a Madison Gulf Osgood Loop day hike and a Six Husbands/Sphynx day hike two weeks later plus did a Presi Lite (Randolph to Highland Center along Gulfside and Crawford path skipping the summits), Franconia Ridge and several other 4k day hikes this summer. The hardest day hike was a Belknap Range hike on hot humid day and don't think I ever broke 3 k on that trip but it was definitely the hardest by far due to the temp.

The other aspect for some folks is long term health issues start cropping up in the fifties. Dan Doan the author of the 50 hikes series wrote a long out of print book that I think was titled Our Last Backpack, and one of thread through the book is his major decline in stamina during the trip. It ended up after the hike that he had early stages of diabetes. I have run into others with similar issues that seem to kick in in the fifties.

Most local hikers enjoy fall hiking with typically cooler temps and I expect that if you can get out again in normal temps the hike may go longer.

Well Peakbagger I guess you laid it right out there for me. I was really sore the next day and a still a little today. So I have to face that I am not conditioned like I once was and am in far less good shape than those 25 year old girls and guys that zipped past me without breaking a sweat or so it seemed. Still, I am frustrated that what use to be able to practically float up now takes major effort! I've only been to the mountains a few times this summer. This is one fo the reason I don't go with groups.. I don't like being the slowest man on the totem pole (or however the phrase goes).

[Pedaling Fool]

Well Peakbagger I guess you laid it right out there for me. I was really sore the next day and a still a little today. So I have to face that I am not conditioned like I once was and am in far less good shape than those 25 year old girls and guys that zipped past me without breaking a sweat or so it seemed. Still, I am frustrated that what use to be able to practically float up now takes major effort! I've only been to the mountains a few times this summer. This is one fo the reason I don't go with groups.. I don't like being the slowest man on the totem pole (or however the phrase goes).

So that's it; you're just going to accept it

If you do "just accept it", it will only get worse with time.

[Coffee]

I'm 41 but in better shape than when I was 31 and 21, so I think much is in our control. I plan to backpack until I cannot do so anymore at which point I'll probably switch to inn-to-inn type of hiking (Camino, Swiss Alps, Yosemite high sierra camps, etc).

[Slo-go'en]

Every year they make the trails around here steeper, longer and with more big rocks. I have no idea how that happens...

[Mags]

A couple of winters ago, I chatted with very lovely woman out backcountry skiing. She looked to be in her late 70s. Her equipment was well used but in good condition. She spoke with a slight Norwegian lilt and had the sparkling blues that seems to only be found in people of Scandinavian heritage. I can only hope to be as fortunate in terms of health and vigor when I am that age.

After my friends and I talked to her a bit, it turned out she was the wife of the gentleman who helped build the (locally) famous Arestua hut on Guinn Mtn.

She said, for some reason, the hut was a bit further away then in years past.

[Another Kevin]

I suspect that in retirement I'll get into better shape than I have been my whole working life, because I'll finally be able to get out when I please. Assuming that I'm still able to, by then. At least I can count the years until then with my boots on.

Maybe by then I'll qualify for a VFTT account and be one of those VFTT geezers.

I know that I'm in better hiking shape in my late 50s than I was in my late 30s. I have time to hike again, sometimes.

I run into 20-somethings on the trail who tell me they think it's great I'm still backpacking at my age. If I didn't know they were sincere, I'd slap them.

What's the elevation gain like on that Webster-Jackson trail? I find it's the climbs that take it out of me, lots more than the miles. The last hike that I really started noticing how sore I was, I was doing two summits in the Catskills (3840 and 3920 feet), with my car parked down around 1000 feet and a 10-mile round trip getting in and out to them. The miles were easy, but starting the day with a nearly 3000 foot elevation gain (in about 3 miles) was kinda steep.

[rafe]

Slo and I just did 21 miles in southern Maine, a half-loop that started at Grafton Notch, up Baldpate, then south roughly parallel to Rte. 26. It's a new trail, cut in 2007 or so, and tough as nails. As I'd guessed, we averaged a bit over 1 mph through most of it. I'm not ashamed of that figure. It really was rougher than most of the well-traveled trails in the Whites, with plenty of vertical. Lately I seem to be walking trails that make the AT seem like a simple walk in the woods.

20140929_104342.jpg

[Demeter]

Maybe we are just more aware of our physical limitations and abilities as we get older

I think I am in better shape now than 20 years ago, but I took my health much more for granted in my misspent youth...

This summer I hiked Mt. Washington for the third time. My first time was 15 years ago. This hike was harder than I remember, in terms of wear and tear on the joints, but my muscles actually hurt less following the hike. Being "in shape" has it's advantages.

[DavidNH]

The elevation gain from Saco Lake near the Highland Center to the summit of Mount Jackson is just a bit over 3140 feet. And yes, many folks told me.. hey your still do in it, you're out here.. that's what counts. Well yeah that is what counts.. but it would help if I could do the trip and not be pooped at the top and still more pooped at the end. a five mile round trip is no biggie and the 3100 foot elevation gain normally isn't a deal breaker either. But add in a very rocky trail (rarely stepping on dirt, always being careful where to step) and a very steep pitch last couple tents mile and man! I think it really hit me more on the down hill than up.


Slo-goen... you are so right. We need to sneak up there at night and make sure the AMC trail crews aren't sneaking some extra rocks onto the trail at strategic locations. Lord knows.. they aren't making anything any easier up there!!

[rafe]

So white mountains regulars.. is it age, conditioning, or are these trails really getting harder? I have to say it takes some of the fun out of the hike.. worrying more about "getting there" than enjoying the moment, and I am very much an enjoy the moment type of person! Any of you have hiking experiences like this where a familiar trail is way harder than you remember it?

Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug. Some hikes feel way easy, some leave you feeling old and tired. I can't usually predict how they're going to turn out. I did the Osseo Trail for the first time a few weeks ago, and it felt easy -- but it was a day trip with a light pack, an early start and perfect weather. A couple weeks before that I'd done a 36 mile section on the northern LT that made me feel old and beat.

No, I don't think the trails are getting harder. There are so many intangibles that can affect your mood and perception -- what you ate the day before, how well you slept the night before, the quality of your morning "constitutional", the traffic on the way to the trail, etc. I try not to look at my hikes as conquests these days. I'm happy just being in the woods and putting a few miles behind me. Not all hikes are joyous, but I don't let it get me down too much.

When I was 30 and carrying 40-50 lbs. on my back, I figured I was good for about 1 mph through most of the Whites. My age has doubled, my pack weight is about half of what it was, and I'm still good for about 1 mph through most of the Whites.

[rickb]

The elevation gain from Saco Lake near the Highland Center to the summit of Mount Jackson is just a bit over 3140 feet.

And over 1/2 of that is in the first mile-- just looked it up to confirm.

I think you would be hard pressed to find a steeper 1-mile stretch anywhere in the Whites.

Hitting that trail immediately on getting out of the car was going to be tough no matter what.

Of course the Dry River trail just down the highway is one of the flattest-- but don't ask I I know that off the top of my head.

[joshuasdad]

And over 1/2 of that is in the first mile-- just looked it up to confirm.

I think you would be hard pressed to find a steeper 1-mile stretch anywhere in the Whites.

Hitting that trail immediately on getting out of the car was going to be tough no matter what.

Of course the Dry River trail just down the highway is one of the flattest-- but don't ask I I know that off the top of my head.

I think you may be talking about the Webster Cliff trail (Appalachian Trail), which is much steeper, has more elevation gain (about 800 feet), and is probably significantly more scary (i.e., Webster CLIFF) than the Webster-Jackson. And the "steep" part of the Webster Cliff trail isn't actually that scary since it has a lot of steps, it is the relatively easy looking area at the cliffs which has a lot of straight-up scrambles alternating with relatively flat cliff walks. Profile maps are evil...

Having just finished my AT section hike in the Whites, IMO the Whites are all hard for us age challenged, flatlander, non-thrus. Especially coming down (or going up) the really steep sections -- the Kinsmans, Webster Cliff, and Wildcat being the most difficult/scary for me. And if you want a really steep trail, head down Tuckerman Ravine trail some time...interesting memories from that one...

[Damn Yankee]

I will be hiking Mt. Bond, W. Bond and Bond Cliff between 10/5-10/10 with the Wounded Warrior Project. It has to be easier than the Sierras in Yosemite, they kicked my butt.

[peakbagger]

Nothing really tough on the Bonds except for the small ledge just north of the summit.

[Another Kevin]

I haven't done NH in years. Most of my hiking is on secondary trails in NY. Any idea how NH compares in terms of "scary" with, say, this garden spot? (Note the treetops below the lady's feet.)



For what it's worth, the (slightly less exposed) exit from that traverse looks like:

[peakbagger]

A general comment is in my opinion the ADKs seem to have more "garden spots" like the one pictured than the whites. Of course there are exceptions, do a google image search for six husbands ladders Huntington's Ravine Trail or Madison gulf trails. The white mountain guide tends to be quite informative on the more exposed trails.

[rafe]

Kevin: I've seen nothing on the AT to compare with the upper photo. I wouldn't want to attempt that with a 25 or 30 lb. pack. Heck I don't think I'd want to attempt it at all. Maybe in my yout'. Maybe not even then. The lower photo -- maybe. Usually if there's serious scaling to do, it's with a limited vertical exposure; if the vertical is extended, there will be a ladder or rebar (eg. just below Dragon's Tooth, or Beaver Brook Trail.)