Minority Hikers?

[The Old Fhart]

Before you all start patting youselves on the back about how much smarter you are than other races, and use biased figures to try to suport your "uberman" superiority, look at some other information for the cause of the differences.
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-inferiorIQ.htm says in part: "Which viewpoint is correct? The answer becomes obvious when you compare the lower IQ results of other discriminated minorities around the world, many of whom are of the same genetic stock.
Perhaps the most dramatic example is the Northern Irish. Even though they come from the same ethnic group, Catholics (the discriminated minority) score 15 points lower on IQ tests than Protestants." (So does belonging to one particular religion make you less intelligent or is it that you are a discriminated minority?)
U.S. Census information on the breakdown of white students who have graduated with a B.A. from college would indicate white Russians are 2 to 3 times more likely to graduate with a BA from college than most other white groups.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence states: "The mean score for people of East Asian and Jewish descent is usually higher than the mean score of whites, but the extent of that difference is not precisely known. However, most studies place the median IQ of Ashkenazi Jews (who make up the overwhelming majority of American Jews) at approximately one standard deviation above the mean for other whites."

So are there differences in I.Q.-yes. But these differences are far greater within a particular group than between different groups and the causes are not genetic but overwhelmingly nurture, not nature. Don't try to use biased data to support your race bias or hatred. Doing that actually displays your lack of intelligence.

[Skyline]

I hike to get away from blacks. Where I live, in the Deep South, blacks are over 50% of the population in many areas. It's like Planet of the Apes.

So when I get in the car and head for the Appalachians, and the black population drops off drastically after Birmingham, it's like a breath of fresh air. It's a feeling of homecoming....

Gee Steve, you don't have to share your home, your bed, your body, your tent, or even your dinner with a black person if you don't want to. But would you really have a problem sharing a trail with one? Shelter space? A ride into town?

Is it only blacks you feel superior to? Or is it anyone "different" than you? What about Asians? Native Americans? Gay folks? Women? Hispanics? The physically challenged? Hikers with Australian accents? Any other irrelevant factors I may have overlooked?

Would serve you right to be freezing your butt off in a March blizzard at Newfound Gap and the only driver in hours brave enough to pass by on the way to Gatlinburg was a mixed race Black/Cherokee Lesbian amputee in a 4x4. If she stopped to offer you a ride, would you get in?

In over a decade around and on the A.T. (eight years of it section hiking) I've met only a few blacks. Not a single one was anything but polite. One of the nicest guys I've met of any race on the A.T. was an older black man named "Sarge" who seems to be out every year. I don't know how even you would fail to be impressed by Sarge if you gave him half a chance.

[BeaverTrapper]

OldPhart:

Differences within racial groups exist just as differences between racial groups exist. That is fact. Is it your underlying assumption that discrimination results in poor IQ? I believe that perhaps poor IQ results in discrimination. Of course, there is no way to scientifically explore that area in our society where political correctness stifles scientific study of certain areas.

Skyline:

Why do you automatically assume that anyone who dares mention differences between the races considers themselves superior to another group of people? That is prejudice on your part. Why do you wish anyone who broaches the subject ill will? While Steve and I may disagree with you, we haven't wished any frozen misfortune on you. That strikes me as being a bit hateful, you know.

Also, IQ was simply one area of difference between the races that was mentioned. I mentioned physical differences, emotional differences, cultural differences, etc. Why is it that the liberal always pounces upon the IQ difference, and then automatically assumes that the person daring to mention it also claims to be "superior"?

It's quite obvious that blacks posess many physically superior characteristics compared to whites. It's funny how no one disputes that blacks, as a group, are superior to whites, as a group, when it comes to certain physical abilities - thats quite OK; but the mere mention of white superiority in intellect compared to blacks, as a group brings instant howls of indignation and self loathing.

So how do you explain black dominance of the NBA, if we are all the same and there are no differences between the races? How do you explain the fact that blacks don't sit around and mope over the fact that they dominate the NBA, and they don't have discussions about how they should be responsible for bringing more whites into the NBA, in order to insure fairness and balance?

And back to the original point of this entire thread, if blacks are just as intelligent as whites, if blacks have the same emotional characteristics as whites, if blacks have the same physical characteristics as whites - then why don't they backpack?

The problem with liberals and race is a simple one. If they admit that there are ANY differences between the races - any at all; then they are forced down the slippery slope of asking themselves, just how different are other races? In what ways are they different? Since they cannot bear to explore this path, they are forced to deny even the most obvious differences between racial groups;which of course, makes them look foolish.

The result is that it's safer, and easier to simply label anyone who broaches the subject as a racist, a hater, or claim they they are claiming superiority, and ridicule them personally.

[Pencil Pusher]

Yeah, this thread is really going places...

[Skyline]

:

Skyline:

Why do you automatically assume that anyone who dares mention differences between the races considers themselves superior to another group of people?

Beaver Trapper:

When "Steve Hiker" makes statements like he has in this thread and in others, it's not a matter of pointing out "differences" between races. It's CLEARLY a preference on his part for segregation of the races, and his viewpoint that the white race is superior. Are you actually saying that you've read his rantings and don't get this?

[Needles]

OldPhart:The problem with liberals and race is a simple one. If they admit that there are ANY differences between the races - any at all; then they are forced down the slippery slope of asking themselves, just how different are other races? In what ways are they different? Since they cannot bear to explore this path, they are forced to deny even the most obvious differences between racial groups;which of course, makes them look foolish.

The result is that it's safer, and easier to simply label anyone who broaches the subject as a racist, a hater, or claim they they are claiming superiority, and ridicule them personally.

I have to say something about this, first of all I am not a liberal, I am a leftist, the differences between liberals and conservatives in the US are so minor that I consider them 2 sides of the same coin. I support socialized medicine, increasing taxes on everyone, but especially the wealthy, so that our governement can afford to provide a decent and equal education to everyone in the US, provide a real safety net to the underprivaledged so that no one is homeless and no one is hungry. I am in favor of greatly reducing the power corporations have over our country and daily lives by reversing the court rulings from the 20th century that gave corporations the same basic rights and freedoms that individuals have which allows individuals to hide behind corporate structures and to break laws because they know the corporation will be the one to be punished if they get caught and not them, ever seen a corporation go to jail? I also support full equality for everyone no matter what color, race, sex, or anything else they are.

I have no problem admitting there are differences between people, some of these are based on genetics and therfore race and ethnicity come into play, most however are based on culture, ie. environment, and could effect anyone no matter what their skin color is.

Are some races smarter than others? I don't think so. Do some races place more importance in different areas than others so that they might see athletic ability having greater value than mathmatical skills? Hell yes. Are schools across this country equal in their ability to effectively teach all subjects? Hell no. Environment and culture are as, if not more, important than genetics, to deny this doesn't show that any minority group is smarter or dumber than another minority group, it just shows your ignorance and lack of willingness to open your mind to all of the facts instead of only the ones that support your narrow minded beliefes.

I live in the liberal capital of the US, and I too am amazed at the idiocy I see around me, people convinced the best way to save the environment is to get everyone to give up their cars and ride bicycles. Well since this is never going to happen why are they wasting their time on bicycles when they could be putting their energy towards something that might actually make a difference. I laugh my butt off everytime I see a "No Blood for Oil" bumper sticker on the back of a Ford Excursion. I am amazed at how many people think they are doing great things for society by donating money to charities that support things like public art, or preserving wooden boats. I have nothing against art or boats, but think of what could be done if this money was going to feed the hungry and house the homeless or fund research in to treatments for cancer or AIDS. Yes it astounds me.

Of course I moved here, Seattle, from Nashville, TN, one of the most conservative cities in the US. I was also amazed at how conservatives could be convinced that stopping gay marriage was the most important issue facing our nation. Or how they could believe that safe and legal abortions could be responsible for the downfall of the United States. How is it that conservatives, most of whom areen't wealthy, can believe that huge tax cuts to the rich benefit anyone but the rich when all of the evidence says it is true. And when race relations in the country are better than they were in the 1950's by a long shot how could anyone think that, overall, school intergration hasn't been a sucsess.

I have spent time with members of just about any race you can think of, including bleeding heart hippy liberals who think that the races should all be able to live as one big happy family even though they don't personally know anyone who isn't white, and neo-nazi white supremecists (this is how they defined themselves) who thought that Blacks and Jews were pure evil and out to see white people whiped off the face of the planet. These same people never could understand why I thought it was so funny to see them talking their black friends (it would always come down to the neo-nazi saying that this one guy was different, he wasn't like all the other blacks). Amongst all of these groups of people I have found individuals who were smart, and individuals who were denser than rocks, I have found individuals I liked and others I couldn't stand (yes, some white supremecists are nice enough people) and the only thing I can see is that people really are more alike than they are different.

If you can't see this Beaver, well it doesn't make me think any less of you, but it does make me feel really sorry for you.

[A-Train]

Nice post Needles

[steve hiker]

When "Steve Hiker" makes statements like he has in this thread and in others, it's not a matter of pointing out "differences" between races. It's CLEARLY a preference on his part for segregation of the races, and his viewpoint that the white race is superior. Are you actually saying that you've read his rantings and don't get this?

Skyline -- I really don't care who is superior. I'm sure that both whites and blacks feel superior in their own ways, and that's fine.

You keep harping on my post, but I don't have anything to add. So I'll repeat it again, just to make sure you get it:

"I hike to get away from blacks. Where I live, in the Deep South, blacks are over 50% of the population in many areas. It's like Planet of the Apes.

"So when I get in the car and head for the Appalachians, and the black population drops off drastically after Birmingham, it's like a breath of fresh air. It's a feeling of homecoming, to where my own people, white people, are. (For reasons I won't go into, I have ties that keep me from moving from Louisiana. Otherwise I''d have left this state long ago.)

"I find it absurd that some white people have been so brainwashed by the 'quota mentality' and the media that they think there's something wrong with there being few blacks on the trail. Gotta see a black face everywhere, right? After all, that's the picture the media is brazenly pushing, to the most offensive extreme.

"Get off it, you politically-corrected types. Hike your own hike and if the blacks decide they want to suddenly pick up and go out in the mountains with a bunch of white people, they can do so. In the meantime, I'll enjoy my breaks from Planet of the Apes."

[steve hiker]

By the way Skyline, I notice you live near Shenandoah National Park in Virginia. That's a pretty white area, isn't it? What are you, some kind of racist? Better pack up quickly and move to black Atlanta, or D.C., or the Mississippi Delta, or New Orleans. After all, you have a reputation to protect.

And stay away from those white rednecks in the Appalachians. Keep going there and you'll be cast for a role in Deliverance II.

Or maybe, you're hanging out on the AT so much so your "inner white guy" can come out?

[Pencil Pusher]

Needles points out the hypocrisies of others while blindly being proud of his own. Despite his fishbowl perspective of Seattle, this is a regular city without the oppressive summer heat, which I think is one source of making people go nuts (in their own varying degrees).

[Needles]

Needles points out the hypocrisies of others while blindly being proud of his own. Despite his fishbowl perspective of Seattle, this is a regular city without the oppressive summer heat, which I think is one source of making people go nuts (in their own varying degrees).

I take pride in my hyporisies because they are my own, and being my own I am familier with them enough to know they are superior to everyone elses hyporisies. So my pride is far from blind.

Further more Seattle is far from a regular city, we currently have a major, elevated roadway in Seattle that is due to colapse and take down several residential buildings with it. So what is being done to fix this problem? Nothing. Why? Because taking this elevated hideously ugly roadway down would eliminate a particularly nice view of the waterfront that everyone in Seattle enjoys so much as they speed down the road at 60 miles per hour (shouldn't you be watching the road instead of enjoying the 20 seconds of view you get from this vantagepoint anyway?). Obviously a large enough percentage of the people in Seattle think that a lovely view, that goes by so fast you can't really enjoy it, from a particularly ugly stretch of highway is much more important than the impending deaths of hundreds of their fellow citizens. I won't even talk about the monorail project (it must be a good idea cause Disney likes them in their theme parks, but it won't ever happen cause the stations might block our views of things like parking garages) or the assorted coffee houses (no, they aren't ALL Starbucks) on every street corner, or the fact that so many of the roads change names every block and a half. Plus this is the only city I have found where its residents set up web sites for the sole purpose of telling the rest of the world how much this city sucks. No, Seattle isn't a regular city. It isn't all bad though, every now and then, the cloudsburn off and the smog thins out just enough that if you are standing in the right spot and squint you can catch a glimps of Mt. Rainier or Mt. Baker, both of which are amazingly beautiful sites. Of course they are both located outside of the city as well.

I will agree that it doesn't get nearly as hot and humid here as it does out East, but I enjoy heat and humidity. Don't say it doesn't get oppressively hot though, today I heard numerous people saying that it was oppressively hot, it was only in the mid 80's with 20% humidity, which to me is just starting to get comfortably warm, but apparently for Seattle that is oppressively hot.

[Pencil Pusher]

The issue with the viaduct is how many people would be affected if they closed it. Monorail will happen, I was one of it's supporters and even signed the petition to force the issue to be voted on by the people. Light rail happened in Denver. Of course, the lawmakers can always toss the people's vote, as they did with the sound transit monies and vehicle tabs. But none of this is exclusive to Seattle. Take into account Denver building that flop of an airport, DOA, right after they added the D concorse to Stapleton. Or the insanely priced interstate that is running under Boston (did they ever drop the Mass turnpike tolls, as was required by law?). How about the circus government of NYC, police and firefighters included?
My point exactly on the heat, it makes people wack out. Even in these 'heat waves' of 80 degrees. Hop on the bus and you see people are more easily agitated when it is hot out. Thankfully Seattle is not known for it's heat, just the rain. Aren't you going to miss out on the mountains and the sea if you move back? It only takes an hour of driving to get over the pass and into 'real' summer heat. I'd guess the gay community here to be stronger, though I've never lived in Nashville.

Sorry for being way off topic. If Seattle sucks, then Nashville blows, hence the gusty winds in Kansas and Wyoming.

[Alligator]

I hike to get away from blacks. Where I live, in the Deep South, blacks are over 50% of the population in many areas. It's like Planet of the Apes.

You must be astronaut Landon.

[The Old Fhart]

Originally Posted by BeaverTrapper
OldPhart:The problem with liberals and race is a simple one. If they admit that there are ANY differences between the races - any at all; then they are forced down the slippery slope of asking themselves, just how different are other races? In what ways are they different? Since they cannot bear to explore this path, they are forced to deny even the most obvious differences between racial groups;which of course, makes them look foolish.

The result is that it's safer, and easier to simply label anyone who broaches the subject as a racist, a hater, or claim they they are claiming superiority, and ridicule them personally.

I can clearly make such a statement when the people using the data try to prove they are superior to one particular race while ignoring the rest of the data that would imply (using their twisted logic) that Asian are smarter than whites making whites the less intelligent race. When I hear any of the above posters say:"Yes, I am dumber than Asians", or any other ethnic subgroup, then I'll be sure they aren't racial bigots. This topic of intelligence isn't used by them to point out differences among race or to try to explain why you don't see minotities hiking, but to prove why they are superior to one particular race while ignoring that others are superior to them using their own logic.

If you want to use "facts" to prove a point, use all of them, including the ones that don't support your point of view. Any thing else is bias or worse.

[BeaverTrapper]

This topic of intelligence isn't used by them to point out differences among race or to try to explain why you don't see minotities hiking, but to prove why they are superior to one particular race while ignoring that others are superior to them using their own logic.

If you want to use "facts" to prove a point, use all of them, including the ones that don't support your point of view. Any thing else is bias or worse.

Obviously you can't read, because I clearly state that there are plenty of other differences between the races, IQ being only one of them. I also clearly point out aspects in which blacks are clearly superior to whites. Up to this point, we have not discussed asians extensively, but I am happy to do so. Why is pointing out the fact that your studies only show that differences exist within the races, just as they exist between the races, 'not using all the facts"?

So, why is it OK to discuss areas where blacks are superior peformers to whites, and not OK to discuss areas where whites are superior to blacks? It's a simple question, Old Phart. Can you answer it?

[SGT Rock]

Look y'all, this is turning the way of some of the gun threads. We don’t have a site about genomics; the topic was about the topic of minority hikers, why don't we see more of a cultural (not just racial) diversity on the trail like we do in the rest of the US.

I hardly think that discussing the superiority or inferiority of anyone would indicate this at all. I am smarter than some people on the trail and dumber than others (probably a lot of them) and I am better athletically than some while worse than others - so I think just based on my observations of hikers in general that physical ability and IQ don't meet in some secret combination to make a hiker. I hardly think that genetics plays a part in deciding if someone will become a hiker or not, more likely culture or exposure at the right time in one's life.

So if you please, if you think it is important to debate this, find someplace devoted to it and do so there or have an e-mail exchange. But get back to hiking.

[screwysquirrel]

Great Gods! This thread is about as relevant to hiking as the latest population count of the Manatee. Here you have your right section and then your left. If minorities want to hike the AT, who cares if they do or they don't! It's their choice.
Great quote here Sgt. Rock, my feelings exactly.
(So if you please, if you think it is important to debate this, find someplace devoted to it and do so there or have an e-mail exchange. But get back to hiking.[/QUOTE]

[Lone Wolf]

www.naawp.com
For you inferior feeling whites

[Skyline]

By the way Skyline, I notice you live near Shenandoah National Park in Virginia. That's a pretty white area, isn't it? What are you, some kind of racist?

Depends on what part of the Shenandoah Valley you're talking about. Those counties where the whites were wealthy enough to own slaves today have a lot of blacks who settled there after the Civil War. Counties like mine were never that wealthy--tho we're not as pure white as you might prefer. Compared to places I've lived before this, I think most of us get along rather well.

Shenandoah National Park gets a high percentage of its visitors from the Baltimore, Washington, and Richmond regions. All very black cities. While it is true that not that many blacks take to the trails, there is usually a representation of blacks (and many other ethnicities) at the overlooks along Skyline Drive, the picnic areas, and the restaurants/lodges.

It's not about numbers or quotas. It's about what's in your mind and heart. If you just take folks you meet one at a time, do your part to get to know them, you can usually decide in short order if you want to maintain the friendship, relationship, etc. The factors that enter into that decision, for me at least, don't have anything to do with whether a person is white, black, gay, younger, older, male, female, wealthy, indigent, educated, or not. It has everything to do with their personal words and actions.

[lysdexia]

"I like being in a family," Fuzzy said.

I don't know about y'all, but I hike to get away from all people. Except the slow, kinda portly ones. Them's good eatin'.