re: the paucity of vacation time in America

[DavidNH]

The Europeans get 3-4 even 5 weeks or six weeks of vacation time a year. It's their right by law and they all expect it. We americans get two weeks, in many cases 3 weeks after 5 years steady employment. But most don't even use all the time they do get (I realize school teachers get more but I am referring to the majority of american employees not one group). Many Americans in the corporate world take only one week or less off a year. ONE WEEK! ONe stinkin week of vacation off a year! even after working full time often over 40 hours a year..they still only take or get ONE week a year!

It seems in fact that most americans don't protest this and dont seem to mind. In actual fact we have no legislated right to a vacation at all..it is up to the company we work for. Yes one can always leave and go elsewhere but many people cant just pick up and go for many reasons.

How do you guys feel about all this? and why are we as a nation so complacent and more interested in how much we make rather than the quality of life we can obtain?

I would think one could be happier making 20 grand a year at a company that treats the worker well..than making 100,000 a year where you are practically a slave to the company (in sense that one is working all the time no matter where he is.

Why is there no movent to make 3 weeks paid vaction mandatory? hey.. we COULD do it, most other countries have.

I want to make a living. But I want to have a life as well.


David

[saimyoji]

Spoken like a true lib. Ever heard of something called CAPITALISM? Its your CHOICE to work for someone that only gives you a week a year. You don't like it? FIND SOMETHING ELSE TO DO!! Go to Europe if you think they've got it good. Don't you DARE go making laws telling employers how much time off they must give employees. This is extreme gov't control, otherwise known as the first step to facism.

YOU ******* NAZI!!

That should get this thread started off well....

[Seeker]

saimyoji- i'm assuming you're deliberately stoking the fire, which is ok... i've seen you post for awhile, and the nazi comment seems a little extreme... hope david doesn't take it personally...

i've lived in a few places around america, and in europe too... one thing i like about americans, non-trash ones anyway, is our work ethic... we like to work... we started a nation out of rebellion against taxes that took our hard earned money. we moved west to be able to keep the fruits of our own labor. we still work harder than any other nation's people and enjoy a higher standard of living because of this work ethic...

sure, other nations have better education systems. other nations have a right to health care. other nations have better roads and rail systems (ok, only germany...but you get the point)... but they all come at a tremendous cost in taxes... over 60% in some of europe. i for one am not willing to give the government more money... when i lived in TN, the local schools sucked... so i sent my kids to a private school... those who couldn't afford it home schooled. there's lots of that here in LA, where the schools suck and there are also no decent private schools... i don't have a solution to health care... i can tell you that i have relatives in the german system, and they feel our system is better when it comes to the latest treatments... ask any US soldier about the quality of his 'free' medical coverage... my own wife lost an overy to a misdiagnosis by a military PA, our only medical coverage at the time due to a lack of qualified doctorsl... canadian doctors move here to make more money... illinois ob-gyns are being driven from that state in droves due to the nations highest awards in malpractice lawsuits... they have to worry about a child from when they deliver it until it turns either 18 or 21, i forget which, but it's crap... no one should have to live with that... the only folks making money on that are the lawyers...

why do so many people from around the world want to come here? it's still the land of opportunity... and as long as we value our freedoms, our right to work, and our morality, we'll be ok... GM is so close to bankruptcy it's not funny... yet their union workers have a lot of guarantees that are costing that company money... years ago, people saw a rich company... they're being bled white... chrysler was saved by a mercedes buyout... toyota is kicking all of their butts, even though they're not selling cheaper cars... they sell more because they make a better product, and the workers can have an impact on the production process... most workers feel they have 'entitlements' or 'rights' to things like healthcare, vacation, and more for less... i've owned a business with 16 employees... it's a nightmare... i now work for a defense contractor... i pay for my health insurance. i accrue 3 weeks vacation a year. i am required to do unpaid overtime, roughly one or two weekends a month... i knew this when i accepted the job... if i need an extra week off, i'll save my $$ and ask for a leave of absence... or i can go work for another company... this is still america, and i still have the ability to be as rich or poor as i like... all depends on how hard i want to work...

too many people want it all, but don't want to work for it, either in school, getting the experience needed to get to the next level, or just in their everyday job performance... and they want it all by age 30... i knew one of the nephews of the owner/ceo of one of the nations largest clothing retailers... he worked in the finance dep't somewhere... had a masters degree and was about 28 years old... told me he was burned out... he lived in a large house in a wealthy neighborhood, there were 2 BMWs parked in his garage, he had no kids, his wife worked for the same company, and he worked about 60 hours a week... ***! half the US army works longer than that, and does it for 20 years... and won't have half the retirement he will... but he's crying about how hard he has to work...

ok, enough... you get my point... you're not entitled to anything in this life but life, liberty, and the right to do whatever it is that makes you happy... anything you get it on you to get... including time off work...

[weary]

Spoken like a true lib. Ever heard of something called CAPITALISM? Its your CHOICE to work for someone that only gives you a week a year. You don't like it? FIND SOMETHING ELSE TO DO!! Go to Europe if you think they've got it good. Don't you DARE go making laws telling employers how much time off they must give employees. This is extreme gov't control, otherwise known as the first step to facism.

Well, an easier solution is to form a union, though the union at the newspaper where I worked was always a bit teed off at me for working more than the required 37.5 hours. And always coming back from my vacations with a free story.

Not that the paper appreciated these things either. They thought of me as sort of an uncontrolable loose cannon that they had to put up with. My theory was that if they left me alone, I'd leave them alone.

Weary

[DavidNH]

Spoken like a true lib. Ever heard of something called CAPITALISM? Its your CHOICE to work for someone that only gives you a week a year. You don't like it? FIND SOMETHING ELSE TO DO!! Go to Europe if you think they've got it good. Don't you DARE go making laws telling employers how much time off they must give employees. This is extreme gov't control, otherwise known as the first step to facism.

YOU ******* NAZI!!

That should get this thread started off well....

That is an unbelievably IMMATURE response. WHo the hell our you to tell me not to compalin.

For the record I get now more than a week.
Obviously you are a cold hearted mean person. hey ya dont like America then leave. With that attitude we would still have slavery and still have segregation and still have lots of sweat houses.


And yes..I think We DO need laws ...
but i wont waste any more time on you!

David

[weary]

...GM is so close to bankruptcy it's not funny... yet their union workers have a lot of guarantees that are costing that company money... years ago, people saw a rich company... they're being bled white... chrysler was saved by a mercedes buyout... toyota is kicking all of their butts, even though they're not selling cheaper cars... they sell more because they make a better product, and the workers can have an impact on the production process... most workers feel they have 'entitlements' or 'rights' to things like healthcare, vacation, and more for less...

I had made similar comments once while interviewing the works manager at one of the nation's most successful shipbuilding companies (incidentally, heavily unionized). His reply: "Production is a function of management."

[DavidNH]

perhaps workers should not be given health insurance, or paid holidays or safe working conditions. Afterall thats government regulations. And why should we respect mothers who have a family to take care of. Perhaps we should get rid of the family medical leave act. If a worker needs time off to care for a sick family member or is sick..thats money to the company.

You see.. It is not all about how much money you produce.. a certain amount of decency goes a long way to towards making a productive society.

it is unbelievable the small mindedness of some people.

As for if i dont like it why not leave..well you cant always just leave! And the european union gives work just for its citizens..not for everyone.

Seeker and weary.. at least you guys are reasonable enough that we can carry on a conversation. Samyoji is beyond words.

David

[lobster]

The Europeans get paid during those vacations also? Didn't France last year reduce the number of weeks of paid vacation?

The liberal(Socialist or whatever they are called) methods are proving to be a failure so the US ways are looking better and better to other countries.

[saimyoji]

I love it when libs lose their sense of humor.

I'd make a crack about lack of fries in your happy meal, but I think someone beat me to it.

1st rule of internet use: in any inflamatory topic someone is bound to toss the nazi card...but if they call you a lib first its obvious sarcasm.

For the record I get now more than a week.

Congratulations.

Obviously you are a cold hearted mean person.

Hey, thats mean!

hey ya dont like America then leave. With that attitude we would still have slavery and still have segregation and still have lots of sweat houses.

Nah, I don't like those things either. They don't represent what America is. America was not founded on the principle of "Every man created equal, unless you are black or young." It did take some time to make sure those things were corrected. I don't own slaves, nor do I need them....

Why do you want to force your employer to give you a certain amount of days off? Are you lazy? Can you not find a job that satisfies you? I'm seriously concerned about your motivation to REQUIRE mandatory vacation....What if I don't want to take a vacation?

My response was meant as pure reactive ***** stirring. Your reaction is very telling though. I'm especially impressed about your vacation time. Try this: go to your boss and tell him if he doesn't give you more time off you'll quit. If he agrees you'll know the meaning of capitalism. If you get fired, you'll still know the meaning of capitalism.

Now, would you like fries with that?

Where was that sense of humor thread?


Seeker: Brilliant post. I agree with all but one point. Having lived in Japan for many years I have to say that the train system there cannot be beat. Our train system is pathetic compared to theirs (alot has to do with the size of the country). Japan's roads leave much to be desired, but the driving age is 20, licensing/insurance costs are obscene (virtually eliminating entertainment driving by kids) and gas prices are 4X ours, reducing the number of cars on the road. This doesn't eliminate traffic much, but does to some extent.

[saimyoji]

As for if i dont like it why not leave..well you cant always just leave! And the european union gives work just for its citizens..not for everyone.

Seeker and weary.. at least you guys are reasonable enough that we can carry on a conversation. Samyoji is beyond words.

I never said "If you don't like it leave." I said "If you think its better over there, go there." There is a huge difference. I know you'll disagree, but ..oh well.

As for your talking points: You are sill trying to tell corporation how to run their business. How is this going to improve their businesses? What you should be arguing is why Americans continue to support big businesses that squash small time businesses, like Walmart. Why do we support the large chain stores than ruin small town businesses? Why don't you spend a little more so that those small businesses can make a little more, so they can afford to pay their employees a decent wage and still turn a competitive profit?

What you should be asking is why do we pay people NOT to work? Look at the welfare system in this country....It encourages people to stay at home, watch Jerry Springer, smoke crack and still afford the Merceded.

You're worried about vacation time? There are some SERIOUS issues out there, I suggest you find one and work in that instead.

I want to make a living. But I want to have a life as well.

You want a life? I agree, you need one.

Fries with that?

[awol]

I just came off Springer in the snow. What did I say to my boss before I left? I GOING HIKING!! If {and thats a big if} he said no I would of explained capitalism to him. He , of course, said see you when you get back...P>S> I have 5 inches of snow in the back of my truck

[saimyoji]

Davey:

I somehow left this out of my original post. Sorry about that.

http://www.fortliberty.org/patriotic...he-****-up.jpg

[DavidNH]

I never said "If you don't like it leave." I said "If you think its better over there, go there." There is a huge difference. I know you'll disagree, but ..oh well.

As for your talking points: You are sill trying to tell corporation how to run their business. How is this going to improve their businesses? What you should be arguing is why Americans continue to support big businesses that squash small time businesses, like Walmart. Why do we support the large chain stores than ruin small town businesses? Why don't you spend a little more so that those small businesses can make a little more, so they can afford to pay their employees a decent wage and still turn a competitive profit?

What you should be asking is why do we pay people NOT to work? Look at the welfare system in this country....It encourages people to stay at home, watch Jerry Springer, smoke crack and still afford the Merceded.

You're worried about vacation time? There are some SERIOUS issues out there, I suggest you find one and work in that instead.

I want to make a living. But I want to have a life as well.

You want a life? I agree, you need one.

Fries with that?

Congratulations! you've officially made it on to my ignore list. Only the second person to do so!

[saimyoji]

Congratulations! you've officially made it on to my ignore list. Only the second person to do so!

Great.

"I'm offended by someone who disagreed with me so I'm going to hide my head in the sand."

This is the attitude that allowed the nazis to spread throughout Europe. And you call me immature? I'll never agree that one should be ignored, but I will agree that you are ignorant. May I ask whose honor I share?

[weary]

saimyoji. You're not dumb. But you do seem to be more into Conservative slogans than original thinking.

[smokymtnsteve]

Amerikans don't deserve any paid vacation...

[saimyoji]

saimyoji. You're not dumb. But you do seem to be more into Conservative slogans than original thinking.

OK, Please quote them. I'll not deny I lean towards the conservative.

I really tend to be apolitical. I take issue with issues not with 'sides.'

I think its important to recognize that my original post (#2) was meant entirely to 'stir the pot."

The whole NAZI thing was a parody of a commonly known internet flame tactic that people who have nothing to say use to 'stoke the fire.' Congratulations to all for recognizing it for what it is....Appologies to those that are non-knowing of this.

[Almost There]

I say repeal the child labor laws! What America needs is zero gov't intervention and a return of big trusts and monopolies!!!

Come on, Capitalism, I teach Economics guys and I can tell you we do not have true capitalism. This assumes everyone plays by the same rules...and some of our corporations are too large for that to happen. Adam Smith was a ahead of his time, but he couldn't of envisioned the world today with megacorporations, zero intervention=monopolies, and monopolies are bad for any economy and every consumer. As for vacations...people do need more, just look at the commercials on tv for all of the medications for depression to erectile dysfunction. You think this is normal? Should there be more gov't intervention? I don't know about that one. But here is a question for my Nazi loving friend...Should the gov't pull out of regulating the power industry? You wanna pay another $100 bucks a month for gas heating? Sometimes gov't intervention is needed. My hope is companies come to the realization that vacation is good for loyal employees one day. Probably a pipe dream, but hey I get 8 weeks in the summer...unless I have coaching clinics, or coursework for a masters degree which is encouraged strongly by my district...who doesn't reimburse as many companies do. Once again I could have gone for the gold ring in the corporate world, in fact I did for awhile, but I didn't like it, so slowed down, took less money, and more time off...and I will be hiking the entire month of June....SUCKERS!!!

[soad]

That is an unbelievably IMMATURE response. WHo the hell our you to tell me not to compalin.

For the record I get now more than a week.
Obviously you are a cold hearted mean person. hey ya dont like America then leave. With that attitude we would still have slavery and still have segregation and still have lots of sweat houses.


And yes..I think We DO need laws ...
but i wont waste any more time on you!

David

Right on David, Right on!

[neo]

i get 4 weeks a year 9 holidays and 12 sick days,every 3 rd week i get 4 off days in a row,i take 3 days off with that,so i can have a lot of mini vactions a year neo