Erwin police hospitality

[dirtnap]

Interesting thing happened to me in Erwin, TN, today.

I was walking back from the Food Lion with my resupply when, out of nowhere, sheriff Kent Harris whips his cruiser in front of me and comes to a quick stop. He looks like he means business.

Naturally, I am confused. Did a fight just break out behind me, in the parking lot of the gas station turned used car lot? I look around and see nothing unusual. I figured he must want to talk to me so I take a few steps closer.

Sitting in his car with the window down he says "I just got a call from a lady who says she saw someone, matching your description, put something in his pocket at the Food Lion." Maybe not ver batim, but close.

I was shocked. What are the chances that someone would call the police for something that never happened? Was there an unseen wallet display at the checkout and someone got confused as I put my wallet back in my pocket after paying? Nothing like this had ever happened to me before.

I tell him there must be some mistake and offer to show him my reciepts from Food Lion and the dollar store. He demands to see my I.D. and I tell him I think its in my backpack at Miss Janet's. He asks what I would be doing without my papers on me. I say "I didn't think I would need a driver's license license to walk to the store."

He asks for my name and birthday. As I respond I notice a balding, whit-haired, fat man of about 65 years waddling towards the sheriff and me (not 'the sheriff and I'). The sheriff seems to know him, and he joins in the interrogation.

Is this the "lady" who was my accuser? He was certainly too old and out-of-shaped to be a police officer. I wondered who he was as I explained to them both that I was a hiker staying at Miss Janet's. Despite my having receipts they both seem hostile.

When am I leaving town? Tomorrow. The sheriff wants to see what I have in my pockets. He searches through my wallet, glancing at the business cards and making sure there is nothing hidden in it.

"I thought you said you didn't have your I.D. on you." the sheriff says.

"Oh, It's in there? I usually keep it in my pack."

"I find it mighty suspicious that you said you didn't have I.D., but here I find are two pieces of I.D." He refers to my invalid driver's license and my old Mercedes security badge.

"That's not I.D. It's just an old security badge from Mercedes, where I worked as a contractor for a few months last year."

A few more questions. Sheriff mentions there's backup on the way. The old, dim-witted guy asks for my social security number.

My mind asks "Who the hell are you?", but, in the interest of cooperation, I say, "I don't remember."

"You don't know your number?" Sheriff demands.

"No! Hell, I don't remember the last time I needed it."

The deputy's car pulls up. Words. Sheriff says my record is clean. Words. He practically insists I let his deputy drive me the last two blocks to Miss Janet's, yet the offer did not seem to arise by way of apology or kindness.

"I don't think Miss Janet would appreciate hikers getting dropped off at her house by the cops. It's only two blocks or so and I'd rather walk."

And so I walked. . .

Later, I asked around town and was told that my description of the old man matched the mayor, Bushy Lewis. Being Saturday, the mayor's office was closed; but I was told he has a second office at the sheriff's department, where he can often be found.

So I walk to the sheriff's department. I stand in the courtyard and collect my thoughts for a minute. Should I go to there sheriff first to find out if there really had been a phone call about a crime that never happened? Would it be recorded in a dispatch log? How could I politely ask the mayor if he is concerned about Erwin's developing a reputation as a city where one has no protection agains unreasonable search?

As I stand there this deputy-looking guy in a Kent Harris Track Team T-shirt walks up and asks me what I'm doing. I reply,"I've got some free time and I wanted to take a look at your beautifull city."

Deputy: "You have to leave the area. We've had problems with people getting drugs to the prisoners."

Me: "There's a jail here?"

He points to the second floor. I want to ask why they don't just put bars over the windows, so someone couldn't stand where I was and throw drugs up to the second floor prisoners. Instead, I walk away. . .

only to return in a little while with a formulated plan: go talk to the mayor in a friendly manner and see if he's the same guy from earlier. A different guy intercepts me at the front door, says the mayor's not in, and tells me I can come back Monday.

So, the big question is: Would a cop fabricate a crime in order to justify his unwarranted search and interogation?

Something stinks in Erwin, and it ain't just the hikers.

-dirtnap

[Big Dawg]

Sounds like Barney Fife is loose in Erwin,,,, LOL!

[fishinfred]

Dirtnap, that REALLY does stink! Try going back to Food Lion and ask the manager if they had a problem and called something in to the police .....
If they didn't ....it REALLY REALLY STINKS!
Hope you can put it behind you and enjoy the rest of your hike ....and remember there's a Barney Fife in every town
FF

[ed bell]

So, the big question is: Would a cop fabricate a crime in order to justify his unwarranted search and interogation?

With all due respect to any law enforcement officers who are members here, I really believe that some police officers will lie in order to either get the information they want, or to harass someone they believe to be suspicious. Sounds like you got harassed, but fortunately were a law abiding citizen. Unfortunate run in with the law. With all due respect to you, hikers can look like vagrants and small town police have the time to be suspicious about these matters. Walk on and put it behind you.

[Buckles]

In an effort to be objective.....

1) you don't know if you have your identification on you (?), 2) you're carrying an invalid driver's license (essentially, your most important government-issued photo ID is expired), 3) for some reason, you're in possession of and holding onto a security pass from a company you don't work for anymore, and 4) you're 32 years old and don't know your Social Security number?

Maybe, just maybe, you need to step back and say, "Given the above, how cooperative am I to law enforcement and their investigation?" You apparently fit the description given by a reported caller, you "cooperated" with the investigation and you were sent on your way. No harm, no foul. You were even offered a ride for your inconvenience.

We do not live is a society of anarchy. As citizens, we have some basic, primary responsibilities. Let's see; carry ID, keep it up to date, don't carry ID that doesn't belong to you or effectively is inappropriate to be on your person, and know your SS# (most of us know that before we get out of high school).

Now, before you start slinging the fascist comments my way...for the record, I'm a card carrying, bona-fide, dyed-in-the-wool liberal. In my humble opinion, you're trying to create an event where none existed. When you get off the trail, or along the way, you might consider updating your identification, memorizing a nine digit number and ridding yourself of documents you should probably not be carrying around.

Happy Trails!

[Frosty]

In an effort to be objective.....

1) you don't know if you have your identification on you (?), 2) you're carrying an invalid driver's license (essentially, your most important government-issued photo ID is expired), 3) for some reason, you're in possession of and holding onto a security pass from a company you don't work for anymore, and 4) you're 32 years old and don't know your Social Security number?

Maybe, just maybe, you need to step back and say, "Given the above, how cooperative am I to law enforcement and their investigation?" You apparently fit the description given by a reported caller, you "cooperated" with the investigation and you were sent on your way. No harm, no foul. You were even offered a ride for your inconvenience.

We do not live is a society of anarchy. As citizens, we have some basic, primary responsibilities. Let's see; carry ID, keep it up to date, don't carry ID that doesn't belong to you or effectively is inappropriate to be on your person, and know your SS# (most of us know that before we get out of high school).

Now, before you start slinging the fascist comments my way...for the record, I'm a card carrying, bona-fide, dyed-in-the-wool liberal.

No fascist comments, but I cannot read the first three paragraphs and believe the last one.

Regarding your four points in the first paragraph, none violate any laws. And none of this was known by the sheriff BEFORE he started hassling the guy.

I think the Ed Bell had it right. He looked lilke a trouble maker might look, and was hassled for it. The sheriff could have gotten lucky and found drugs on the guy, but he was clean. No matter. If the sheriff keeps doing this to everyone he sees that looks like he might have drugs, eventually he'll find some and make an arrest.

The problem with all this is that the search is done without cause. If you are okay with searching without cause as long as it ends up nabbing a few people possessing drugs, that is certainly your right.Many people feel that way. But you will need to turn in your flaming liberal card, and get a law-and-order-at-any-cost conservative card

[Buckles]

No fascist comments, but I cannot read the first three paragraphs and believe the last one.

Regarding your four points in the first paragraph, none violate any laws. And none of this was known by the sheriff BEFORE he started hassling the guy.

I think the Ed Bell had it right. He looked lilke a trouble maker might look, and was hassled for it. The sheriff could have gotten lucky and found drugs on the guy, but he was clean. No matter. If the sheriff keeps doing this to everyone he sees that looks like he might have drugs, eventually he'll find some and make an arrest.

The problem with all this is that the search is done without cause. If you are okay with searching without cause as long as it ends up nabbing a few people possessing drugs, that is certainly your right.Many people feel that way. But you will need to turn in your flaming liberal card, and get a law-and-order-at-any-cost conservative card

It's not about dirtnap violating a law regarding having proper ID, it's about common sense. Time to grow up. As for the sheriff, I'm not condoning his behavior, IF he was manufacturing the situation. Maybe he was in pursuit of the reported crime, or a falsely reported crime (and the sheriff didn't know that). In a thread posted by The Only Wanderer early this week, he points out that Erwin deputies were giving hikers rides from the trail to Miss Janet's. Mmmm. The best way to clear yourself from a police investigation; have and show your valid ID, don't have conflicting ID, then move on.

[ed bell]

The best way to clear yourself from a police investigation; have and show your valid ID, don't have conflicting ID, then move on.

This is an important point considering that we have no idea what led to the incounter. I acknowledge the fact that citizens have the right to freely travel about this great country on foot without current, valid "papers", but if you do not have ID, SS# or any otherway of confirming who you are, there will be hassels if you get tangled up with the law. Hopefully dirtnap will shore up his ID situation and won't get hassled for no reason again.

[Lugnut]

I read about a court case where it was decided that a citizen was not required to even give their name to any government represenative with out just cause. You sure don't have to furnish your social security number. I think I would have told him to stuff it; I would also probably be upstairs in the jail on a trumped up charge right about now.

[ed bell]

I would also probably be upstairs in the jail on a trumped up charge right about now.

I'd bail ya out

[Nean]

Hey dirtnap, sorry about your experience in Erwin. I must admit however that when I saw you, you didn't strike me as a hiker. After talking to you, you did strike me as a nice person though. If you had the same problem I asked you to deal with in Hot Springs then you probably offended just about anyone in the store. Enough so that someone thought you were a vagrant and not welcome....
It's wrong to stereotype but people do and as a hiker you could probably do more to avoid a stereotype.

[neighbor dave]

erwin .... get in ,get out. nuff said

[Jack Tarlin]

Actually, its be a shame if people did a "Get In, Get Out" in Erwin. In recent years it's turned into one of the friendliest towns on the Trail: Great places to stay, eat, shop, etc. and very friendly townspeople. I'm sorry D. evidently had a problem there, but this is absolutely NOT something that happens regularly in Erwin, and people shouldn't judge the town, its citizens, or even its police department based on this one incident.

P.S. Nean raised an interesting point. I also met D. in Hot Springs and he's a perfectly nice guy, but he was NOT dressed like a typical hiker during most of his town stay; he did indeed look more like a stereotypical "vagrant" (or at least he would have seemed so in many people's eyes); police officers in Trail towns, as well as many Trail town citizens, are accustomed to how hikers generally look, but someone who is wearing offbeat clothes, has unkempt hair, etc., is always going to attract extra attention from folks, including cops. This may be unfair to folks who've done absolutely nothing wrong, but that's the way it is. Whether it's a small Southern town or a big Northern city, some folks are going to judge you on how you look, and unfortunately, one's appearance might attract unwanted attention from citizens and police.

[weary]

...for the record, I'm a card carrying, bona-fide, dyed-in-the-wool liberal.

Not by any definition of "liberal." that makes sense to me.

Having served in the military police, once thought about joining a small town police force, and covered small town police as a newspaper reporter for a number of years, it's my suspicion that the sheriff deputy involved was bored and playing games with a hiker.

REgardless of the reasons for stopping the hiker, the sheriff strikes me as totally unprofessional and the hiker had every right to be upset.

FWIW, I would not have given out my Social Security number, especially with an unidentified observer standing there listening.

There's increasing agitation from alleged "conservatives" to require national identification papers. But we aren't there yet and with luck and wisdom enough of those will be voted out of office soon.

Weary

[BooBoo]

If you are ever harressed by the cops file a complaint with the respective dept ie Sherriff,City,State Trooper etc. Nothing will come of it but the complint will be on the officers record.

[Footslogger]

Something stinks in Erwin, and it ain't just the hikers.

-dirtnap

================================
Are you the same Dirtnap from 2003 ?? If so ...remember the Holiday Inn ??

'Slogger

[CaptChaos]

Hello Group:

When we were first married and living in Tampa, FL I was stopped by a black and white unit on my way to pick up my wife who was dropping her care off at the dealership for repair.

I had been doing yard work and had only my shorts on with no wallet on me. The police pulled me over on the side of the road, came to me asking for id and I had none, ran the plates on my car and made me stand outside my car in the afternoon sun for about 26 min. I asked two times why I was being detained from my travels and I was told both times by the officers to keep my mouth shut. I then waited and after about 20 more min I asked for the officers to again tell me why I was being detained and I was told to shut up and at that time I requested that the officers either call their shift supervisor, tell me why I was being detained or let me go or arrest me.

At this point the officers got ticked off and when I again requested that my rights were being infringed upon they told me to get in my car and leave and next time have id on me.

Now this is where I get upset with law enforcement. Just tell me why and I am ok with that. But you dont do this to people and not tell them the reason why. I never was told even when I called the next day and complained to the Tampa Police Department since I worked downtown for Price Waterhouse.

Now years later, my sisters-in-law got pulled over in Greenville, KY and they were put in the back of a cruiser and held for 30 min and then let go but they were told that they fit the description of two women who had robbed a store and they were wearing bandanas. They understood the reason and the officers treated them fine. To this day they do not wear bandanas and they have retired from teaching. In their case they have never felt that it was a problem just the police doing their jobs and they had the wrong persons.

This is my beef as I have said with law enforcement. I follow the law and I pay my taxes but I won't stand for this kind of treatment without a reason being given. This is still the United States of America and until someone lets me know that it has changed I will always demand for the officers to tell me why I am being detained.

Years ago my father who was a retired banker was pulled over on his way to visit his sister in Ohio. Mom and Dad had moved from Ohio and had moved to KY. When the officer started asking questions on why a car from KY was driving around town in the middle of the night my father told the officer that he was on his way to his sisters house and he wanted to know why he was being stopped. At this time the officer started slapping his flashlight in his hand and told my father that he would ask the questions. To my Dads credit, he told the officer that unless he intended to use it against a 66 years old man that he had better put the light up or Dad offered to put it somewhere on the officer where the sun did not shine. At this point the officer got cute and my father picked up his cell phone called his sister and told her to call the police chief who Dad had went to school with and played on the same football team. At this the officers backed off and when the call came from the chief they got in their car and drove away. Dad was pulled over for having KY plates on the car. No other reason, but he did get a sorry from the police chief.

It happens folks, and if you don't stand up for your rights and demand to be treated fairly by law enforcement then stories like this will continue.

John

[Ewker]

Hello Group:

When we were first married and living in Tampa, FL I was stopped by a black and white unit on my way to pick up my wife who was dropping her care off at the dealership for repair.

I had been doing yard work and had only my shorts on with no wallet on me. The police pulled me over on the side of the road, came to me asking for id and I had none, ran the plates on my car and made me stand outside my car in the afternoon sun for about 26 min. I asked two times why I was being detained from my travels and I was told both times by the officers to keep my mouth shut. I then waited and after about 20 more min I asked for the officers to again tell me why I was being detained and I was told to shut up and at that time I requested that the officers either call their shift supervisor, tell me why I was being detained or let me go or arrest me.

At this point the officers got ticked off and when I again requested that my rights were being infringed upon they told me to get in my car and leave and next time have id on me.

Now this is where I get upset with law enforcement. Just tell me why and I am ok with that. But you dont do this to people and not tell them the reason why. I never was told even when I called the next day and complained to the Tampa Police Department since I worked downtown for Price Waterhouse.
John

maybe I missed something and if I did tell me, but you were driving a car with no drivers license (ID). I see why they detained you. I don't understand why they didn't just say you were driving without a license that is why but surely you knew that

[CaptChaos]

Fair question. I was following my wife in her car to the dealership when the black and white pulled in behind me and pulled me over.

My issue was not having my wallet, and if I was wrong I would have paid the fine if that was the case. The point that you missed was WHY was I pulled over. It was never told to me. I had my car title and insurance card so there was some id just not my drivers lic and that never was the issue.

I was detained and never told why. What was the reason for being pulled over??? Never given, the fact that I did not have my drivers lic is not part of the reason for being pulled over. The guys and gals of the Tampa Police Force are good but not that good to pull me over for not having my wallet on me.

Does that answer your question?

John

[Ewker]

yep it does and I agree that they should have said why they pulled you over. Unfortunately it seems the police don't need a reason anymore to pull you over.

I didn't know you were following your wife when this happened. She could vouch for you..well maybe