Billville Hiker Feed

[MOWGLI]

You did, and you know it.

The comment is mild but the implications are downright nasty and mean spirited.

Bfitz. You're an idjit.

[ed bell]

I think Mary is offended by the fact that trail officials, for what appear to be arbitrary personal reasons, feel the need to steal coolers, water jugs and other items left for hikers. Even going so far as to remove a water container that had been nailed down calling it litter. Now, if gallon jugs are left in the same place, when they are emptied the wind will blow them around and they would become litter. This is one example. Leaving a cooler at the trail head is very common in other jurisdictions and no "official" comes and steals the stuff, not to mention badmouthing an official town-hosted trail event.

Is this being done by someone involved with a maintenance club or by club officials? Is the ATC involved at all? Intersting post bfitz, sounds like a lack of communication between AT community members/hikers/maintainers/trail officials about what constitutes goodwill and what constitutes trash.

[bfitz]

Bfitz. You're an idjit.

Nope, and I didn't call you one, either....Okay, you explain yourself then. Specifically, explain the elements of your comments that I highlight in boldface...

Considering the tragedy that occurred last year, perhaps it would be wise to make sure that none of the organizers drink to the point of intoxication at future events. If that's not possible with the Doyle being in town, maybe you should give some thought to relocating the festivities

Perhaps your words just weren't carefully considered and you'd like to retract or apologize?

Is this being done by someone involved with a maintenance club or by club officials? Is the ATC involved at all? Intersting post bfitz, sounds like a lack of communication between AT community members/hikers/maintainers/trail officials about what constitutes goodwill and what constitutes trash.

I'm not sure whose involved, but Mary communicated with someone after her stuff was taken and she can tell us what they said, but it sounded to me like they said they would take it again....

[MOWGLI]

....Okay, you explain yourself then.

The organizers of any public gathering have a responsibility to act responsibly. As I stated in my post, for all I know they did. In fact, I assumed that was the case. Read my prior posts if you don't believe me. The weekend seemed to get rave reviews. But then a week or so later - the ATC becomes a target. That's unfortunate.

But lets think about this in the context of non-trail life. I invite the hiking community to a party at my house. I don't serve any alcohol, but down the street, there's a well known establishment that does. Early in the evening, I lead the group down there, and proceed to get drunk. Now, mind you, many of the people who have showed up at my party are 21 & 22 years old (read: trail demographics). And me - the 44 year old host - is setting a poor example for these young folks. That would be wrong. And that is my point.

There were several posts this year stating that this event was not about getting drunk. Mary made one of them - and I applauded her for it. Before the event. Look it up.

It is entirely understandable that the ATC would frown on trail related activities where alcohol is involved. Especially considering the tragedy that occurred last year. And in '03 when a woman was assaulted by a drunk at 4 Pines. And I could go on & on & on. But I won't.

Is it possible to have a fun hiker weekend that doesn't involve intoxication? Gee - I hope so. And that's another point of mine. That's neither mean spirited nor nasty.

All of this is MY own opinion. You don't have to like it, and considering that you've advocated stumbling around high on oxycontin, hauling cases of beers to shelters, and getting stoned - all here on a public forum about the AT - I don't expect you to.

PS: For the record - I have no problem with the responsible consumption of alcohol. I served it at my house in 2000 when I had thru-hikers over for a party. Even though I am a recovering alcoholic for 20+ years. And don't drink myself.

[TJ aka Teej]

I think Mary is offended by the fact that trail officials, for what appear to be arbitrary personal reasons, feel the need to steal coolers, water jugs and other items left for hikers.

Who are these "trail officials"?

[MOWGLI]

Who are these "trail officials"?

Sounds like someone in the Boiling Springs office.

[TJ aka Teej]

I was told that the AT Official in Boiling Springs said that these drunken fiasco's that Billville has are giving the trail a bad name.

Well, everyone is entitled to their own opinons, and if the "official" had personal comments that's his/her right. Until Billville gets a reprimand on ATC letterhead just consider "unofficial" comments mere gossip.

[bfitz]

The organizers of any public gathering have a responsibility to act responsibly. As I stated in my post, for all I know they did. In fact, I assumed that was the case. Read my prior posts if you don't believe me. The weekend seemed to get rave reviews. But then a week or so later - the ATC becomes a target. That's unfortunate.

But lets think about this in the context of non-trail life. I invite the hiking community to a party at my house. I don't serve any alcohol, but down the street, there's a well known establishment that does. Early in the evening, I lead the group down there, and proceed to get drunk. Now, mind you, many of the people who have showed up at my party are 21 & 22 years old (read: trail demographics). And me - the 44 year old host - is setting a poor example for these young folks. That would be wrong. And that is my point.

There were several posts this year stating that this event was not about getting drunk. Mary made one of them - and I applauded her for it. Before the event. Look it up.

It is entirely understandable that the ATC would frown on trail related activities where alcohol is involved. Especially considering the tragedy that occurred last year. And in '03 when a woman was assaulted by a drunk at 4 Pines. And I could go on & on & on. But I won't.

Is it possible to have a fun hiker weekend that doesn't involve intoxication? Gee - I hope so. And that's another point of mine. That's neither mean spirited nor nasty.

All of this is MY own opinion. You don't have to like it, and considering that you've advocated stumbling around high on oxycontin, hauling cases of beers to shelters, and getting stoned - all here on a public forum about the AT - I don't expect you to.

PS: For the record - I have no problem with the responsible consumption of alcohol. I served it at my house in 2000 when I had thru-hikers over for a party. Even though I am a recovering alcoholic for 20+ years. And don't drink myself.

Get off your high horse dude.

Firstly, you imply that to drink is inherently irresponsible, and that to have an event occur in a bar with 21 and 44 year olds simultaneously present represents some type of irresponsibility on the part of the 44 year old. I could go on and point out that with every sentence you imply that the "hosts" (no particular named...perhaps they ALL act irresponsibly...) act irresponsibly if they drink. The fact is, the Band was performing at the bar as bands do and folks have the option to go or not, and while there have the option to drink or not. Fact is, to use your example of non-trail life, people are responsible for their own actions, and drinking is a part of many folks' good time. Just like with fireworks or 4-wheelers, every good time requires responsibility and has its risks. I have a right to my own mistakes, thank you. Your entire post is dripping with insinuation starting with the words "for all I know" in the 2nd sentence.

As far the ATC being a target...that's not the case, mabye some words were chosen poorly, but I think the point is someone with some type of official affiliation has been taking things that Mary leaves at the road for hikers in a way that seems overzealous...that's all. The ATC as a whole is a fantastic organisation, I'm sure Mary would agree.

[MOWGLI]

Bfitz. You're an idjit.

[bfitz]

Your cueball's made of styrofoam, and I ain't got the time....

[max patch]

I've said it before and I'll say it again....Having a hiker feed in a town famous for large quantities of cheap alcohol is just plain stupid. Its a receipe for disaster.

[trailangelmary]

I did not intend for a raging battle to ensue here as a result of my answering the question about what trail official spoke negatively about the Billville Feed.

However, I would like to say a few things about what has jerked my chain concerning the most recent entries.

I believe that some of the statements are unwarranted without knowledge of what really happens at Billville events. For your information, Billville members do not get "to the point of intoxication" while sponsoring the event at the park. There is always a Billville member at the park in Duncannon even after all the events at the park are over for the day. That Billvillian is keeping an eye on things at the park. Billville members do go to the Doyle Hotel on Friday and Saturday evening to drink socially. And while drinking socially we do have the opportunity to socialize and get to know the class of 2006 who are drinking socially and dancing and having a great time. I think it is sad that because the drinks are cheap at the Doyle that has become associated with overindulging by trail related people. The tragedy last year was in fact a tragedy. It may have involved overindulging. That is not the fault of any Billville member or owner or employee of the Doyle Hotel.
Thank you, Mowgli for your recommendation on dealing with the ATC. I will take it under consideration while I plan my options.
I spoke with the Borough Officals (Borough President and Chief of Police) before, during and after the event as did other key Billville members. There were absolutley no problems created by anyone attending the feed. WE HAVE BEEN INVITED BACK TO USE THE FACILITES AT THE PARK AGAIN NEXT YEAR ALREADY. THAT HAPPENED BEFORE WE LEFT ON SUNDAY.
I think it is apparent that everyone had a great time at this year's feed. And, as I stated before, we were blessed to have a great group of hikers that caused no problems.

When I mentioned battling with the ATC I may have chosen a bad choice of words. That is the reason I put "battling" in paranthesis. I am not looking for a battle. But I do have some things to work out with the ATC and local trail clubs.

As I write, I am deciding how public I want to make the issue with which I am dealing. I do not want to alienate the ATC. We have worked well together in the past. However, I will say this. Someone, the ATC and/or because of local trail clubs has given me a challenging situation about the magic I leave on the trail. I hope to work it out before next hiking season. I do not know at present if this is happening throughout the trail or if it is a local issue.

Many hikers of the class of 2006 and other Billville members know about it as I have been getting imput from them. I will sleep on it tonight and decide if I will start a thread about it. I hesitate because I do not enjoy the name calling and argumentative entries. I would be willing to read constructive suggestions from those who have more direct experience about this sort of thing than me.

[bfitz]

Sorry, Mary. Well said.

[Dust]

Hiker feed. Sounds like roaches on welfare.

[MOWGLI]

Thank you, Mowgli for your recommendation on dealing with the ATC. I will take it under consideration while I plan my options.

You're welcome Mary. I certainly didn't mean to malign you or the organizers of the fest with my comments. I hope you can work things out with ATC.

Good retort Bfitz!

[Lone Wolf]

Walking the AT used to be so easy and uncomplicated. Now the so-called "community" is loaded with drama. Too many hiker feeeds and too many hostels fighting each other for hikers attention. Buncha BS if you ask me.

[neighbor dave]

Walking the AT used to be so easy and uncomplicated. Now the so-called "community" is loaded with drama. Too many hiker feeeds and too many hostels fighting each other for hikers attention. Buncha BS if you ask me.

and admit that the waters have grown, and if you don't start swimmin' you'll sink like a stone... for the times they are a changin'!!
p.s. i agree wid Senior L. Wuff

[StarLyte]

Mary..... Mary
Quite....... Contrary
.....why do you worry so?

from the hills....
and mills......
from hikers
and Bills

we say Mary Mary......
don't fret 'bout this

keep yer chin up....
and the door open

love will abound you
admidst

Love
Marsha