Yes, I hike.
Yes, I hike.
As for the things people were saying above. You know, you can say all these things about us if you like, but we'll continue caring for all the hikers we can.
yeah, pretty much
1) When I was there in late October 2006, they were kind and generous. They were friendly, mostly willing to converse, and interested in doing so. Staying with them helped my hike and my peace of mind. I had no issues of any kind with them. I heard indirectly of women hikers who did not like being forced to stay in a separate room (away from men hikers, e.g., most of their friends), and I could see couples being irritated at not being able to sleep together there. As a male with no female I was involved with along, this was a nonissue for me.
2) To get along with nonmembers better, they'd do well to use the standard English word for Jesus, e.g., "Jesus". (In Israel, where Hebrew is the language, "Yawheh" is fine. America is not Israel.) Men members cutting their hair to normal length would be wise as well. (The Mormons have even odder beliefs, and can manage this, so I don't see the problem.) Long hair on men equates to being counterculture, lower-class, lacking in personal hygiene, etc., to many people, so keeping hippie-length hair just causes them pointless difficulties. If they can cut their foreskins, they can cut their hair.
Minnesota Smith, how do you know they cut their foreskins?
"Religion is the opiate of the masses" -Karl Marx. Organized religion is a major source of the world's woes today and has been for thousands of years. Too many people just use it as another criteria for discrimination. Too many hypocrites and not enough people practicing what they preach. Its real easy to live a moral live without it. The only religion you need is the Golden Rule.
When Karl Marx said that, supposedly his point was that religion was a pain reliever for the masses, more so than it was a mind-altering drug. This assessment goes well with how opium was primarily made use of in Europe at the time he lived.
Insanity: Asking about inseams over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein, (attributed)
From http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM :
(I put known atheist regimes in red; Muslims are in green)
II 128,168,000 VICTIMS: THE DEKA-MEGAMURDERERS
4. 61,911,000 Murdered: The Soviet Gulag State
5. 35,236,000 Murdered: The Communist Chinese Ant Hill
6. 20,946,000 Murdered: The Nazi Genocide State
7. 10,214,000 Murdered: The Depraved Nationalist Regime [China]III 19,178,000 VICTIMS: THE LESSER MEGA-MURDERERS
8. 5,964,000 Murdered: Japan's Savage Military
9. 2,035,000 Murdered: The Khmer Rouge Hell State
10. 1,883,000 Murdered: Turkey's Genocidal Purges
11. 1,670,000 Murdered: The Vietnamese War State
12. 1,585,000 Murdered: Poland's Ethnic Cleansing
13. 1,503,000 Murdered: The Pakistani Cutthroat State
14. 1,072,000 Murdered: Tito's SlaughterhouseIV 4,145,000 VICTIMS: SUSPECTED MEGAMURDERERS
15. 1,663,000 Murdered? Orwellian North Korea
religion is darnassinine. spirituality is the bomb
Last edited by Frolicking Dinosaurs; 07-15-2007 at 07:17.
I spent four days with the 12 tribes when I was on the Appalachian Trail in 2004. They had a wedding while I was there and as part of the wedding had a play representing their spiritual beliefs. I helped set up stages and tents and tables, etc. and they talked to me a lot about their beliefs. I also attended one of their morning get togethers where they sing and dance. I never felt any pressure at all to join. (I'm an agnostic if that matters).
One of my hiking friends stayed with the tribes much longer. She was of a similar religion based mainly on following the old testament (very jewish-related other than the 'small' fact that they believe in Jesus as the lord and savior). Anyway she celebrated one of their festivals with them and lived in the house with members of the tribe and thought very seriously about joining. In the end she decided against it and continued hiking.
If you do join the tribe it is a very serious commitment. You are giving up a certain type of lifestyle for another lifestyle. It all felt too confining to me and I would have no interest in it. But for some it obviously fits them. The trouble comes IMO in the seperation from your old life once you join. It doesn't necessarily fit well with those left on the outside as the tribe becomes your new family. The parents of the bride were at the wedding I was at, but seemed very out of place and not completely comfortable. I also wonder about children who are born into the tribe and what choices they have.
I have mixed feelings about the place. Everyone I met was extremely friendly and answered any and all questions without any pressure. But it still felt like a cult and overly confining to me. I would not hesitate to stop back in and stay at the hostel and talk to the people again when I venture past on my next AT hike. And of course the food at their cafe is awesome.
I would just suggest that anyone thinking of joining the 12 tribes, take some time away from them and spend a bit with their own families or other friends, before deciding if that is the place they want to commit to.
I haven't read all the posts on this thread so don't know if this was posted, but here are some web sites on the 12 tribes
The twelve tribes is the closest that America comes to the FFL. (French Foreign Legion), it is for people who want a new structured life and/or need structure in their lives, recovering substance abusers, ex convicts to name a few. When you join you will be given a new name and identity. Parole officers and drug counselors consider the Tribes a good place for their "clients". And it is a good place, tribal members are watched day and night and there are few relaspses.
A majority of the members are male. A good portion of the women raised in the community leave. To prevent this woman exodus, the tribes are considering nuptials for children under ten years of age. The women are watched closely ("to keep them virgins" even the non-virgin women are watched closely)and are told when they are being "over familiar" with either, tribal members or non tribal members of the opposite sex. Flirting with the opposite sex is not allowed. You will see men giving men back rubs and, giving each other very affectionate hugs while in close physical proximity and you will see women snuggled close to each other while sitting. when a man and women have an attraction to each other, they can ask permission to the shepherds to go on a "waiting period" this allows the couple to hold hands and to talk alone with each other with out a third person present overhearing their conversation. Very affectionate hugs and sitting snuggled in close proximity is not allowed at this stage.
There is no transparency in the organization. Most of the decisions are made by the Sheppard's in private meetings. This contrasts with examples in the scriptures where all business is discussed at the town gate. There are approximately five thousand members in many countries. France, Germany, Spain, Brazil, and Argentina, Canada and the United States are the locations of the tribes taken from the Hebrew Scriptures. There are not any tribes left for Asia and Africa. People of African descent are referred to as Ha mites, descendants of Ham inheriting the curse of Ham.
The twelve tribes is composed of approximately fifty communities. These communities vary in size. There are many industries run by the tribes Cafes, Outfitters, Bakeries, Soap manufacturing, Mate distributing, construction companies and farms, to name a few of the major enterprises. This wealth is invested into real estate and enterprises. In spite of this wealth their homes often run out of heating oil. The everyday meals are extremely spartan. The households are alloted one dollar per person per meal. Note the Shepard's who travel quite often are given a generous meal allowance, You won't find them eating sack lunches.
Borrowed property is treated disrespectfully; They claim to hold all in common. The reality is that private property is allowed, New members are kept busy and their private property sits idle. The Older members can Borrow this property at will and return it at their leisure. Cars are often returned with dents and other damage, you can say good bye to your cell phone, laptop camera etc. The Shepard's property is always in use so don't even try to borrow it.
Those familiar with Christianity know of the Lords Prayer or The Model Prayer" , The prayer recited by Jesus when asked what to pray for. You Often Hear of the Tribes asking for the "wealth of the Nations", They often ask for farms, Houses and new millionaire members. Ex-members often have a curse put on them during the prayers, "give them no rest till they return". This contrasts with the biblical scripture's that say forced worship is unacceptable and an abomination. When Going into the "Breaking of Bread", Members are told to focus on Judas, the betrayer of Christ.
You won't see the children around because the children's discipline while legal will be distasteful. A non-member would not understand. Non-members who aid the tribes are referred to as "Servants".
All in all the rank and file, are fine people and many will receive their just reward. As for the leaders some of them are awesome, and inversely to the rank and file many are receiving their reward on earth. The quote "Absolute, power corrupts absolutely", sums almost all of the leaders up quite nicely. David Derush is fairly high in the tribal organization and is also an apologist for the tribes, His insights receive priority within the organization. David will attack me but won't deny the truth of this posting.
Just wondering how you are so familiar with the 12 Tribes behind the scenes life?? This isn't a challenge to what you've said, just want to gauge it for accuracy.