She's so Heavy.....

[grizzly]

Some advise please. I have a 5000 ci Gregory backpack and it is very heavy. Please tell me how to lighten the load. What I have loaded is as follows:
Starting from the bottom up:
Sleeping bag in a compression sack. (3lbs.)
Next to that is my small tent. (milky way)
Tarp laid flat on top of that.
Water filter(MSR Miniworks), stove(MSR International) inside my pot along with my small skillet, and then small first aid kit next to that complete the next level.
My food is next. I would like to carry 7 days supply. It consists of oatmeal, granloa bars, noodles, beef jerky, meal supplement powder, and dehydrated meals. It is all tied up in a waterproof pouch.
Then all my cloths. 2 shirts, 2 pants, waterproof pants and jacket, wind breaker, fleece jacket, long johns (tops and bottom) 3 pair of socks, wool cap and gloves.
I also have in assortied pockets on my bag the following:
2 nalgene bottels
1 suvival knife, and swis army knife
bug net for head
fuel tank for stove (11 oz)
one lexan knife and spoon
repair kit for water filter and stove
2 small bottles of bug spray
maps of area
journal with pen
mountain soap (small bottle)
compass
sunglasses
poles for tent also stakes
large cup (for drinking and mixing food in)
2 flashlights 1 small (fits on head) and 1 of regular size
3 candles
and last but not least toiletrees.
Please help! and comments at all...

[chris]

What gear you take depends alot on how you want to spend your time on the trail. Everyone develops their own personal style for travel. Some light and minimal, others with more luxury. It also depends on when you are hiking (winter, summer, etc) and your pace (70 miles a week, 140 miles a week, etc). I tend to spend most of my day walking, with little time spent in camp, with that time soaked up eating, drinking, and sleeping. It also depends on if you already have the gear or not. If you do, I don't think you should go out and buy a bunch of different gear unless you are pretty certain you want it. That is, if you have been out hiking and realized that you definitely need something. Find a few weekends, load up your pack with your proposed gear, and go for an overnight or two day trip. You'll start to get a feel for what you do or do not need. Of course, long trips like the AT are more specialized, but shorter trips are very helpful in planning for longer ones.

A few comments. 3 lbs isn't bad for a warm sleeping bag. If you already have it, keep it, but with the idea of maybe switching to a silk liner for sleeping in when you get further north in the dead of summer.

I am unfamiliar with a Milky Way tent, but I think bringing a tarp and a tent is a bit of overkill. Pick one. Both have advantages and disadvantages.
Consider going with Iodine or Aqua Mira rather than a filter. Consider not taking the skillet (gonna cook some pancakes?). You can get away with a smaller food supply depending on how long you hike each day. There are no stretches in the south where you have to pack 7 days of food, even when if you are moving slowly. My longest resupply was right at the start: Neels Gap to NOC, which was, I think 6 days. That can be split up into a couple of shorter legs, though.
You can save yourself a third of a pound by leaving the two Nalgenes at home and taking two liter sized gatorade bottles. Think about taking an alcohol stove rather than a whitegas one. You'll save more than a pound by doing so.

Clothing: Assuming what you listed does not include what you are wearing, I think you have a bit too much. One spare shirt and pants should be fine. A windbreaker and a rain jacket might be too much. If your rainjacket is coated nylon, I would bring both, though. I didn't use sunglasses at all last summer. The trail is undercover so much that they just were not necessary. The rest looks fine.

Consider not bringing candles. I saw lots and lots of candles and candle lanterns in shelters in Georgia. It seems like a good idea now, but it might not after a few days. Consider using Photon-type microlights rather than headlamps or flashlight. I did some night hiking only once (starting at 3 am) and this was fine. I mostly used a light source for reading at night. Consider leaving the survival knife at home.

Consider bringing earplugs. You will spend nights in shelters or in motels or hostels. People snore. Lots of people snore. You will want earplugs. They cost about a dollar and weigh about .3 oz. They will make you happy. Bring about 40 ft of utility cord. Bear bagging, you know. Consider a large water tank. Something like a 6L Playpus. Many water sources are a ways off trail and steeply downhill. You won't want to make multiple trips from your camp to the water source and you will want to drink alot. Bring more than one lighter. Put them in different places. Consider bringing a whistle. Nothing fancy, but something that you can blow on if you need help. You will go hoarse very quickly if you have to shout for help. Try using a 3/4 ridgerest for a sleeping pad.

In general, go out hiking. Experience will tell you what you need a lot better than anyone can tell you. Consider gear as a whole. Most things don't weigh all that much. But, it adds up. Try to avoid using the excuse, "But it only weighs x oz", as a reason for bringing something.

[AmazinGrace]

Hi Grizzly,

Some ultralighters will suggest that you replace your pack, tent, and sleeping bag with lighter models. If money is an issue (and isn't it for all of us?) and you're handy, you can make a much lighter pack and tarp. You could make a bag, but that would be pretty difficult.

I just got a Marmot Hydrogen bag that weighs 1 pound 5 ounces and so far, I love it. But these are expensive. A good thing to spend a tax refund on, if you get one.

If you go ultralight, you won't need a 5000 cu. in. bag unless you do a lot of winter camping and have bulky gear/clothes. You will really reduce pack volume as well as weight.

If you want to stick (mostly) with what you have, and can stand cutting up your gear, remove any part of the Gregory that you don't use--all those extra loops, pockets, and inches of waistbelt add more weight than you'd think. You didn't say what kind of tent you have, but you could replace that with a very light silnylon tarp, and sleep in your bug net if you want the bug-free traits of a tent.

If it's warm, you can use a homemade fleece bag. Just sew fleece in a sleeping-bag shape. It works fine in summer.

OK, here are some suggestions for lightening up the gear you have and not spending too much:

Nalgene--use soda bottles instead, or if you have money, platypus water bottles. These weigh a fraction of what a Nalgene does.

Clothes--you don't need that many. Most people have one set to hike in, and one for sleeping/town. I wear shorts/shirt to hike in, and in camp, wear long light nylon pants, a t-shirt, and a fleece. That's it for clothes. If it's cold I wear my rain gear too. I do carry 2 extra pairs of socks, though. And extra underwear--some people don't use it, but to me it's worth the weight to have a clean pair every day.

You don't need a windbreaker and a rain jacket. Leave the windbreaker home and use the rain jacket when it's windy. Also, some people don't use rain pants, figuring that as long as their torso is warm, they're OK. I take them, though.

Fleece hat and gloves might be lighter than wool ones--check it out.

Filter--if you don't have thyroid problems (I do), you can use PolarPure to purify water and save the weight of a filter.

2 big knives--get one of those tiny, tiny knives. I have only needed the scissors and a little blade. These are about 1 1/2 inches long but do the same jobs as big heavy knives.

Hat with bug net--if you're using bug repellent by day and sleeping in a tent at night, you may not need it (except in certain blackfly-infested northern places in early spring).

2 bug sprays--you only need one. Mail the other one ahead, or leave it home.

Journal--use a small spiral notebook, but take it apart before the hike. Take only the number of pages you think you will fill. Leave the spiral and covers at home. Then after your hike, put it back together again for a lasting reminder of your trip.

Pen--use a pencil, they are usually lighter--short pencils are even lighter. Sharpen it with your tiny knife.

Sunglasses--95% of the time, you'll be in shade and won't need them. Leave 'em home.

Tent poles--for some tents, you can use trekking poles/hiking sticks as tent support. If you use trekking poles when you hike, this is worth looking into.

Cup--Don't bring one. Drink from your water bottles, pot, or bowl.

Stove--alcohol-burning stoves weigh a fraction of an ounce and work great. You can find directions for making one out of old soda cans at www.pcthiker.com (see "Make a Pepsi Can Stove" on that site). You don't need heavy fuel bottles for them either. I carry fuel for mine in an small, light bottle that used to hold dishwashing soap.

Pot--if you have the bucks, titanium is great--these pots only weigh a few ounces. Some bargain-hunting folks use aluminum "grease trap" pots, which you can get at any walmart-type store. I don't like aluminum, but plenty of people do.

2 flashlights--leave them both home and bring a photon-type light. I made a headband for mine out of some thin packstrap-type webbing--it fastens with velcro. It was pretty much free and weighs only a couple of ounces. The photon lights weigh a fraction of an ounce but are very bright.

Candles--leave them home, stick with the photon. Heck, photons are so light you can bring 2 or 3 and always be assured of light.

These are just a few suggestions. Look up "ultralight backpacking" on the net and you'll find a ton of sites by people who are really skilled at it. I've lowered my base pack weight (gear and clothes, not including food and water) from about 35 pounds to about 15. My knees were so happy!

Have fun, and light hiking to you!

Amazin' Grace

[Presto]

Everyone has their own style. Here is mine. Forgive me if it sounds authoratative or demanding but this is theway I would do it. Good Luck and let me know if you have specific questions of why I would choose one over the other. Ultimately though you need to be comfortable with what you have with so make sure to take that much with. You will learn over time what is needed and what isn't.

GET A LIGHTWEIGHT PACK AROUND 3500CI

Next to that is my small tent. (milky way)
Tarp laid flat on top of that.
NO NEED FOR A TARP UNLESS THATS YOUR ONLY SHELTER. sERIOUSLY CONSIDER USING ONLY A TARP. MAYBE GET A LIGHTER TENT IF YOU NEED TO USE A TENT AND CAN AFFORD A NEW ONE.

Water filter(MSR Miniworks)
USE AQUAMIRA

, stove(MSR International)
USE ALCOHOL FOR ONE PERSON OR CANISTER IF YOU WILL BE COOKING FOR 2 OR MORE.

with my small skillet
NO NEED FOR SKILLET

My food is next. I would like to carry 7 days supply.
7 DAYS IS A LOT OF FOOD. I WOULD RECOMMEND AVERAGING 5 DAYS FOOD.

It is all tied up in a waterproof pouch.
USE SILNYLON STUFF SACK INSTEAD.

windbreaker
NOT NEEDED IF YOU HAVE A RAINJACKET

2 pants
NO NEED FOR PANTS IF YOU HAVE RAINPANTS AND LONG UNDERWEAR.

2 nalgene bottels
USE PLASTIC 20OZ. SODA BOTTLES INSTEAD.

1 suvival knife, and swis army knife
ONE VERY SMALL KNIFE (2" MAX BLADE)SHOULD BE PLENTY. I WOULD CONSIDER USING NO KNIFE.

bug net for head
NOT NECESSARY UNLESS YOU KNOW BUGS WILL BE BAD

one lexan knife
NOT NEEDED

repair kit for water filter and stove
NOT NEEDED

2 small bottles of bug spray
NOT NEEDED

maps of area
IF YOU ARE ON THE AT ITS PRETTY TOUGH TO GET LOST BUT IF ALL YOU HAVE IS ONE OR 2 MAPS MAYBE OK.

compass
UNLIKELY THAT YOULL NEED THIS IF YOU ARE ON AT.

large cup (for drinking and mixing food in)
MIX FOOD RIGHT IN THE POT. USE WATER BOTTLES FOR DRINKING.

2 flashlights 1 small (fits on head) and 1 of regular size
3 candles
1 SMALL LED HEADLAMP IS ALL YOU NEED.

ADD HIKING POLES

[Grimace]

Just did some research on your tent. The Milky Way from EMS is 2 person tent that weighs in at over 5 lbs including stakes and stuff sacks. Ouch! Will you be by yourself? You can easily find solo tents for 2-3 lbs and people on this site seem to love Hammocks which are evn lighter. You also might want to consider a bivy for less than lb. for shelter.

Your pack at 5000 ci has got to be the Whitney or Palisades. Gregory makes great packs, so I'd hate to dissuade you. Both of those weigh 7 lbs empty. That's heavier than your tent. Check out the UL-Equipment P-2 or the Moonbow Gearskin to save some weight there.

What kind of rain jacket are you carrying? If you have an EMS, REI, NOrthface yada yada parka with ballisitc nylon, 3 layer, 4 hundred zipper jacket, it prob weighs in a 3 lbs. Look at the Marmot precip, Red Ledge Jacket, or Frogg Toggs to save weight.

I concur with most of what everyone else has said. Especially with your clothing. During the cold months I carried

1 kilt
1 t-shirt
1 set midweight long undies
1 fleece (down parka is warmer and lighter)
1 rain pant
1 rain coat
1 pair fleece gloves and 1 capilene hat
2 pair socks

I would just get into my sleeping bag at camp if it was too cold

[chris]

If you already have what you need for hiking, take what you have out and do some trips with it. Before spending a bunch of cash on someone else's solution (mine or others), try to find your own. Not only will you save money, but you will probably find a better solution as well.

[brian]

I 2nd grimace's thoughts:

Hennessy Hammocks are "all the rage" now in lightweight (not quite ultralight) shelter. Visit hennessyhammock.com for great clearances on old models, and then take a trip over to ebay. The base model (expedition) goes for around $70.

Im soon ordering a ULA-equipment P-2. It looks\sounds like a sick 4000 cu in. backpack, and if fitted properly it is a bargain for only $150-$180

And go build urself an alcohol stove. If u have 5 people telling u that....then go do it.

Brian

[grizzly]

Thanks to everyone for the great info. You have all helped me rethink my priorities on what to bring on my adventure. I am glad that I found this web site and that there are some people on it who truly know the reasons for its existence. Happy Trails!

[Dirtyoldman]

Perhaps a different way to look at it ...

sit down with your pack empty and think about what the absolute minimum you need to survive will be and then add only those items to your pack. This isnt an issue of comfort at the moment but simply survival but dont panic yet we can get to luxury later.

food, shelter,clothing,water and first aid. Make sure each of the items involved can do the job and if possible can serve other functions as well. An item that weighs 2 pounds but replaces 6 pounds of other lighter stuff is the one you want to look for. Decide on any changes to that equipment first and look for lighter solutions to handle problems. Consider also what you are willing to put up with. Will a night under a poncho kill you if you cant make it to the shelter and do you have the skills needed to make it work?. <knowledge weighs nothing>

once your convinced you have the lightest setup you can live with then consider what you need to add to make your stay in the woods comfortable and add them in. Be very carefull of gimmiks and so on. You will find that carrying an item for luxuries sake can be very annoying and once an item is acknowledged this way you will look at it very closely

[Doctari]

Seriously, the way I lightened my pack weight was to get a smaller pack. No joke and I am not trying to be "Funny". This has little to do with the weight of the pack it'self but mor on the problem of most of us: "If I have X number of cubic inches I should carry X+ amount of gear" So the smaller pack will force you to carry less. And, of course the snaller pack is usually lighter.
If you really want to keep the Gregory, DO NOT under any circumstances tie ANYTHING to the outside, even Consider removing the ties & straps & stuff from the outside.
Look at EVERYTHING to determine it's need. Determine NEED, do you truely NEED that item. Want is not need. Then determine wether you can do with out it or have something else do the same or similar job.



Doctari.