Rancor here on Whiteblaze

**Sly** · 09-13-2006, 13:57

DonJuan you're fairly new here and have asked 16 questions. I haven't read them all but with a quick glance, it looks as though all have been answered civilly.

**Amigi'sLastStand** · 09-13-2006, 14:02

Originally Posted by Donjuan70

just my 2 cents but here goes..there does seem to be ALOT of bashing that occurs here, and some coming from people I bet can't hike from the lazyboy to the fridge. but feel they are the supreme being of the trail..1 of the things I dont get is when a legitamate question is asked or an intention stated..either the critics and doomsayers attack or the question is pretty much ignored..only receiving a very few reply's.." thank you to those with knowledgeable responses" but then I see rediculous threads receiving hundreds of responses(i.e..minn.smith,..who carries a sword??? ...etc...while some people are trying to prepare for a trip of a lifetime( like me) and either not get much feed back or when asking help from a ''supposed" experianced hiker..you get the ''I'll get back to you" and that never materializes..so you are back to searching here and hopeing to find someone who will take the time to pass along their personal knowledge of the AT..I am certainly not a rookie hiker, however I am new to the AT..and kinda new to WB and at times I wish there was a better source..where you didnt have to strap on hip wadders to get thru the buuull shiiiiit.and just get some real answers without haveing to listen to the mindless ramblings of... well I will just leave it at that, no names THEY know who they are..thx

I understand your frustration. Been there.

Most threads asking about gear or hiking advice are answered and answered well, IMO. If I can contribute, I do, as do many. I think 'Slogger, Speedy, and me lately have been having a contest as who can give the most advice in the shortest time lately.

The MS and Sword threads are a battle of comiedienes(?), and pretty freaking funny. Just friends passing time, giving each other a laugh. I'm sure it doesnt fit every ones SOH, but what does.

If you ever cant get advice on something, PM me, and I'll give you my .02c or steer you to the person who can. We do have legitamate "experts" or at least very knowledgeable people here on just about everything and they will all help out. They always do when asked.

**Biloxi** · 09-13-2006, 14:05

I was not only refering to my post ..yes I have gotten some good advice from some..I was saying in general..and how the subject can swing in a negative way quite quickly, or get all but overlooked..there are some here new to this and are getting their 1st advice from WB and I think it should be taken a little more seriously ..when its a legitimate question..thats all..thx...nothing personal

**Outlaw** · 09-13-2006, 14:16

Not to stir the pot anymore, but there was a recent thread that seemed like it got a bit out of hand. http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/show...ght=pocketmail

A legitimate question was asked then it became a test between a few individuals as to who was right and who was off base. Did any of the rancor add to answering the question, you can decide for yourself. However, IMHO all the BS detracted from the intent and purpose of the underlying question and left many with a feeling of frustration.

**Amigi'sLastStand** · 09-13-2006, 14:22

Originally Posted by Donjuan70

...nothing personal

Never thought it was. Keep on coming back. I have a feeling things are getting better.

Hedge: with most of us.

**Creek Dancer** · 09-13-2006, 14:49

Ahhhhh...now I am feeling the luv! Group hug everyone.

Hey, who pinched my butt?

**The Solemates** · 09-13-2006, 14:50

Originally Posted by Brick

Not to stir the pot anymore, but there was a recent thread that seemed like it got a bit out of hand. http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/show...ght=pocketmail

A legitimate question was asked then it became a test between a few individuals as to who was right and who was off base. Did any of the rancor add to answering the question, you can decide for yourself. However, IMHO all the BS detracted from the intent and purpose of the underlying question and left many with a feeling of frustration.

That's just Jack being Jack. You'll get use to ignoring it.

He does have many good things to say about the AT, and I am sure he has helped many a hiker, but he can also be very ornery if you get on his wrong side. (Sorry, Jack, but I think you know this is the truth.)

**Sly** · 09-13-2006, 14:59

Actually ironic that Mowgli started this thread in the general discussion area when he's posted controversial threads of his own that were guaranteed to stir the pot in the politics forum....

**TJ aka Teej** · 09-13-2006, 15:05

Originally Posted by MOWGLI16

It seems as if the level of rancor displayed here on Whiteblaze has recently been ratcheted up a few notches.

I've seen the same thing - an attack the messenger mentality, instead of commenting on the ideas expressed. Some of that rancor slips from the Politics forum into the AT forums, unfortunately. But really, a realitively small amount of WBers participate, (about 40 responded to a recent poll)and it keeps certain topics off the main board.

Real trail world report: I recently met and talked with over 70 AT hikers, service providers, and Park Rangers over four days. Whenever WhiteBlaze, ALDHA, or the Companion became a topic there was only positive feedback.

That being said, I think there might be too much weight being placed on the impact of a few posts to an Internet bulletin board... The arguers just ain't as big a deal as they think they are

**the goat** · 09-13-2006, 15:06

Originally Posted by Creek Dancer

Hey, who pinched my butt?

sorry, that was me, couldn't resist......

**MOWGLI** · 09-13-2006, 15:14

Originally Posted by Sly

Actually ironic that Mowgli started this thread in the general discussion area when he's posted controversial threads of his own that were guaranteed to stir the pot in the politics forum....

Actually Sly, I have rarely started any threads in the political forum. But I am not perfect and have jumped ugly on occasion. Usually it is in the political and non-AT threads, to which I have unsubscribed (today).

**Jack Tarlin** · 09-13-2006, 15:15

Actally, Sole, in a thread devoted to discussing electronic devices on the A.T., discussing the proper and considerate uses of these devices is perfectly appropriate.

But back to the subject at hand.

It's curious that of the folks whose posts are sometimes "rancorous" (and this certainly includes me), it's funny, but with only one or two exceptions, none of them have yet replied to this thread.

Maybe it's cuz they haven't seen it yet. Maybe they recognize themselves and feel bad about it. Who knows?

Here's my two cents:

I think it's good to have an "Off Topic" section, and this includes political threads. Like any other thread or section, people can participate in these discussions, or they can ignore them. This is all well and good.

What I see is a persistent problem is people injecting politics or off-topic stuff into threads where they simply don't belong. For example, a thread devoted to a recent film shouldn't turn into yet another thread bashing the President. A thread devoted to land preservation in Maine shouldn't turn into a discussion of the upcoming elections. In short, political threads and political commentary should stay in that section of the website. Threads devoted to On-Topic subjects, i.e. the Trail,the outdoors, etc., should be permitted to stay on topic.

So here's my suggestion:

Let the Off-Topic and Politics sections stay as they are. People that are interested in such things can go there and argue til the cows come home. But when an On-Topic thread is diverted from its original subject and intention, how about someone chiming in and saying "You've gone off the subject. That's NOT what this thread is about." Hopefuly, the offending party will realize their error, and that will be the end of the matter. I further suggest that if the offending party does NOT do this, then someone should post in with a comment like the following: "The thread has been taken off-topic. I suggest that further discusion of the off-topic matter END or be taken elsewhere."

If these simple measures are enacted, I think it'll help a great deal. When comments or diversions are pointed out for what they are, and THEN IGNORED, the diversion and thread-hijacking wil end of its own accord.

If folks persist in following thru with their off-topic postings, or post angry replies, then administration can step in, delete the posts, and say "This post has been deleted for taking the thread off of its original subject and intention."

If this is done often enough, folks will get the message.

The result of these simple measures:

1. People that wish to talk about things other than the Trail, and especially
those that wish to discuss political matters, will do so in the appropriate
place.
2. If they choose not to do so, they will be informed of this by other
Whiteblazers.
3. If they persist in hijacking the thread after they've been informed of
their having done so, then their posts should be removed from the
thread.

In short order, people will get the message. Off-topic comments will be posted and read in the appropriate places. People that wish to follow or take part in these dialogues can do so. People that do not enjoy seeing these discussions or arguments in inappropriate sections won't have to
endure them anymore. On-topic threads will stay that way; angry and rancorous discussions, especially political ones, will be read only by those who wish to view them; newcomers to the site won't be turned off by
people arguing with each other all over the website, and we can get back to more threads that deal with the subject at hand, i.e. the Appalachian Trail and how we can best help each other enjoy it.

Just an idea....

Oh, and hats off to Mowgli for initiating this discussion.

**Sly** · 09-13-2006, 15:15

I've seen the same thing - an attack the messenger mentality, instead of commenting on the ideas expressed. Some of that rancor slips from the Politics forum into the AT forums, unfortunately. But really, a realitively small amount of WBers participate, (about 40 responded to a recent poll)and it keeps certain topics off the main board.

I challenge anyone to find a topic on the "new posts" page that could be considered rancorous or a problem...

No politics or bumping old threads allowed.

**Alligator** · 09-13-2006, 15:24

Originally Posted by Sly

I challenge anyone to find a topic on the "new posts" page that could be considered rancorous or a problem...

No politics or bumping old threads allowed.

Use today's posts, offenders probably read the rancorous ones LOL.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/show...547#post243547

**Sly** · 09-13-2006, 15:27

Originally Posted by Alligator

Use today's posts, offenders probably read the rancorous ones LOL.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/show...547#post243547

Sorry, non AT subscribed thread, but I get your drift! That'll cost you a $1 Try again!

**Alligator** · 09-13-2006, 15:35

Originally Posted by Sly

Sorry, non AT subscribed thread, but I get your drift! That'll cost you a $1 Try again!

You didn't specifically tie it to Teej's quote! I'll give you 50 cents

.

This one was some, but there was trolling going on.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13090

**Alligator** · 09-13-2006, 15:36

This one
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17345

and this one
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16668

I see few though (outside Non-AT), but perhaps a more kinder soul may see others.

**Skyline** · 09-13-2006, 15:36

As someone who participates in the political discussions a fair amount, these observations:

When I read someone with a right-of-center POV making statements I know are wrong, or have a color to them designed to paint beliefs I hold an ugly hue--well, I've just GOT to respond.

To appropriate a slogan from ACT UP during the first wave of AIDS activism, Silence=Death. I just can't be silent, lest other readers get the impression that the Righties' POVs are factual, or even in the majority.

I am absolutely certain many of the right-wingers on WB feel the same way about what they read from a left-of-center POV.

IMHO that is why political discussion has been segregated to its own place here. Rightly so, no pun intended. And not a problem if it continues. I'm happy to make an annual $$$ donation to cover the cost of any extra bandwidth my political posts add to WB's bills.

What IS a problem is taking these discussions to a personal level. Calling those who may disagree names, ridiculing THEM for their opinions. Far better, IMHO, to simply refute the argument using as many facts as you can find. Leave the personality attacks out of it. This I try to do as a routine matter, tho I'm sure I've strayed once or twice.

I wish we could all concentrate on the message, not the messenger. There is no reason to even call out the name of the person you are disagreeing with in the text of your reply--it can be very condescending. And it can appear to be kind of immature. When you use the "quote" feature on WB, the person you are responding to automatically appears above the quoted text, so why even use it in your reply?

**Alligator** · 09-13-2006, 15:55

Originally Posted by Skyline

...
I wish we could all concentrate on the message, not the messenger. There is no reason to even call out the name of the person you are disagreeing with in the text of your reply--it can be very condescending. And it can appear to be kind of immature. When you use the "quote" feature on WB, the person you are responding to automatically appears above the quoted text, so why even use it in your reply?

I don't see why this would matter.

or

I don't see why this would matter Skyline.

In fact, I like the 2nd one better because I want you, Skyline, to clarify what you have said. I don't want it to appear more general because only you can really tell the board why you feel this is important.

I'm certainly not trying to be condescending by using your name. If this were a conversation in a group, I would use your name immediately.

**Frosty** · 09-13-2006, 16:03

nm..........................

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