View Poll Results: Based on your own past experience with giardia, do you see a link between the existen

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  • Yes, I see a clear connection

    8 12.12%
  • I see a possible connection

    10 15.15%
  • I'm unsure

    17 25.76%
  • I don't see any connection

    22 33.33%
  • None of the above

    9 13.64%
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  1. #1
    Registered User makemerry's Avatar
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    Default good natural giardia cure! giardia poll

    I recently got giardia after a section hike from New York to Massachusetts.
    I found a natural cure online that brought immediate relief and disappearance of all symptoms within 12 hours. It was on a web page on diagnose-me.com, and it said that 20-some number of people (I've had trouble finding the page again) with giardia took garlic on an empty stomach two hours before meals twice a day for three days and 100% of these people were symptom free after three days.
    So I tried the same thing and got immediate relief from my ongoing severe stomach pains. All stomach pain and cramping were gone within 12 hours and did not reoccur. I chewed garlic cloves and washed it down with good purified water to make sure I got plenty of alacin, the curative property of garlic that is lost in many garlic pills. If you can find pills with a good dose of alacin in them, the article says those will work as well.
    I have a theory that I'd like to run by those who've had giardia. The theory is that people a healthy and well-functioning digestive tract are not likely to get giardia and if they do it is not likely to cause serious distress nor is the giardia likely to survive long.
    This theory is based partly on information I got from a hiker who'd had giardia whose doctor told him that giardia feeds on sugar and lots of people have giardia in their system, but it is often not a problem unless there is an imbalance like too much sugar consumption. This particular hiker's giardia became distressing and required treatment, he said, because he had come upon an ongoing source of free sugary cookies and consuming a lot of them prior to getting ill.
    I started drinking water without treating it 8 days into my trail hike and noticed within a couple days that I had more gas than usual, but no diarrhea or stomach pains or any other distressing symptoms. I take probiotics daily, don't eat much sugar and probably have a fairly healthy digestive tract, maybe 6 or 7 on a scale where 10 is the healthiest. When I got off the trail I stayed with friends who offered me sugary baked goods for breakfast, and strawberry pie topped with gobs of whipped cream for lunch, all of which I consumed in large amounts. That night I woke up with stomach pains so bad I thought I was going to have to go to the emergency room. I think this distress was due to the sugar feeding the giardia. These severe pains persisted for two more days before I found the garlic cure online. A clove of garlic on an empty stomach two hours before dinner gave me instant relief; I had moderate stomach pain after dinner and complete disappearance of pain by morning. The pain has not recurred.
    Does this theory match your experience?
    Can you refine the theory to make it more accurate and descriptive?
    Did you find an effective and helpful cure that you want to share?
    Do you have time and interest to design a poll that may shed more light on this issue?

    So, here's an initial poll:
    Based on your own past experience with giardia, do you see a link between the existence/severity of giardia symptoms in your system and the excessive consumption of sugar or other unhealthy eating habits, lack of healthy bacteria in your system (perhaps due to consumption of antibiotic laden meat and dairy products), or other indicators or a less than healthy digestive system?
    1) Yes, I can see a clear connection
    2) I can see a possible connection
    3) I'm uncertain
    4) I don't see any connection
    5) None of the above

    Thanks.
    Cheers.

  2. #2

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    Put me down as uncertain. How do you know you had Giardiasis? (the disease. giardia is the paraside that causes the disease.)

    It typically takes a week or more before symptoms of Giardiasis to show up after ingesting the parasite. Symptoms after two days of drinking suspect water -- as I understand it -- are unlikely.

    More important: many ordinary stomach upsets mimic the symptoms of Giardiasis. These symptoms typically disappear in three days or less, whether one eats garlic or not.

    Finally, unless you had your stool examined under a microscope and it showed the bugs, there is no way to distinguist Giardiasis from more routine stomach problems.

    Weary

  3. #3
    Registered User makemerry's Avatar
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    Default Good questions!

    I didn't have a stool sample taken, so I don't know for sure that I had giardia. It was an assumption, based on that being the first time in my memory of having stomach cramps and pain like that. I don't typically have stomach problems. I had been on the trail for a week, long enough to have gotten giardia even though I was initially treating my water. And, whether or not I had giardia (I do wonder now what else it might have been), I'm still curious to know if the theory fits the people's experience. Thanks for your response!

  4. #4
    Registered User orangebug's Avatar
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    Gotta agree with Weary (we are near the End Times). All that squirts ain't Giardia. The short acute gastroenteritis could have been from just about anything.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by orangebug View Post
    Gotta agree with Weary (we are near the End Times). All that squirts ain't Giardia. The short acute gastroenteritis could have been from just about anything.
    Come on, OB, I agree with all of your medical opinions -- and most of your political opinions. Us semi-liberals need to stop bickering over nonsensical matters.

    Weary

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by orangebug View Post
    Gotta agree with Weary (we are near the End Times). All that squirts ain't Giardia. The short acute gastroenteritis could have been from just about anything.
    I agree with the above also. I got the exact symptoms after hiking the Bonds in New Hampshire (and camping at Camp 16, which is heavily used, and drinking untreated water),
    but since I never saw a doctor about it, and hence never had a positive test, I can't honestly say I had it for sure (though I believe with all my heart I did).

    Bloating, belching, projectile vomit and runs, fever, extreme fatigue....

    YUCK!
    As I live, declares the Lord God, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn back from his way and live. Ezekiel 33:11
    Did Adam and Eve rest on the first Sabbath? Scripture only says that God did. Are we thinking yet?

  7. #7
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    As a medical friend sometimes says, the most likely diagnosis is true, true, and unrelated.
    a) Gastrointestinal distress isn't always caused by infections. For instance, gorging on pastries when you are not used to it can make you sick, regardless of what you do.
    b) Ongoing stomach cramps can go as suddenly as they appeared, no matter what you do, and usually do, so there is no reason to believe you would not have recovered in exactly same way without the garlic and water fast.
    c) Your symptoms don't indicate giardia as a prime candidate. Even if you did have an infection, there is no reason to believe you had giardia, rather than some other bug.

  8. #8
    Registered User makemerry's Avatar
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    Default Maybe I didn't have giardia. Still .... here's an interesting study

    Several of you havel caught me on an assumption that was perhaps unwarranted--i.e. that I had giardia--so I will back off on on saying that I necessarily had giardia. But I'm still struck by the coincidences. I've gorged on sweets before and never gotten stomach pains. Never gotten stomach pains for any reason. The relief from stomach pains when I took the garlic was immediate, as if the garlic went right to work, killing the bad actors. The stomach pains had been ongoing for two days. Maybe not giardia. But is it also possible that it was giardia? It's hard to prove anything based on one experience. Whether or not I had giardia, I'm interested in other people's experience treating giardia by other means than flagyl and a trip to the doctor. Here's the webpage and the study that I got the idea to try garlic for my stomach pain from:

    http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C172355.html

    Researchers Soffar and Mokhtar performed an open trial investigating the use of garlic in giardiasis. Twenty-six children infected with G. lamblia took 5ml crude extract (fresh garlic blended with distilled water and then centrifuged and filtered to remove the solids) in 100ml water twice daily or a commercial garlic preparation two capsules (0.6mg capsules) twice daily for three days. Both preparations were given on an empty stomach two hours before meals. Clinical symptoms subsided in all cases within 36 hours. Parasitic cure (according to stool examinations) occurred within three days of beginning treatment.

  9. #9
    Registered User orangebug's Avatar
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    At the very least, your anecdotal evidence of garlic treating gastroenteritis probably shouldn't hurt anyone, so long as they maintain hydration. I wouldn't want to try treating cholera with it, or typhoid.

    What works against this idea is the absence of generally/folk accepted usage of garlic for such conditions. We have many who would have taken some White Georgia Clay (kaolin or Kaopectate), ginger, bicarb and the like to try to settle down the earlier cramping symptoms. Rice water once was a pretty universal treatment, helping hydration and getting some sugar into a kid.

    I just can't recall anyone suggesting garlic in such a situation. I'd also love to hear how anyone got a kindergarten kid to sip an extract of garlic from either a spoon or a smelly capsule. It is hard enough to get one to chew on a Flintstone's vitamin.

  10. #10
    Registered User greentick's Avatar
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    Default garlic peppers etc

    Last I looked the *theory* is that the GI tract is made inhospitable and so the parasite, of whichever type, just doesn't hang around. Adding some hot peppers to your diet (not hot sauce) *theoretically* will help with prevention. Plus they just plain taste good. In the name of rapport building in several 3rd world countries I have drank what I would consider bad water. Fortunately hot peppers and onions (raw) were being served so I chowed down and had on lli stceffe I mean no ill effects .... I would mark a "giardia window" on my calendar. I have had giardia in the past but treated it with flagyl (an antibiotic).
    nous défions

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by makemerry View Post
    Several of you havel caught me on an assumption that was perhaps unwarranted--i.e. that I had giardia--so I will back off on on saying that I necessarily had giardia. But I'm still struck by the coincidences. I've gorged on sweets before and never gotten stomach pains. Never gotten stomach pains for any reason. The relief from stomach pains when I took the garlic was immediate, as if the garlic went right to work, killing the bad actors. The stomach pains had been ongoing for two days. Maybe not giardia. But is it also possible that it was giardia? It's hard to prove anything based on one experience. Whether or not I had giardia, I'm interested in other people's experience treating giardia by other means than flagyl and a trip to the doctor. Here's the webpage and the study that I got the idea to try garlic for my stomach pain from:

    http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C172355.html

    Researchers Soffar and Mokhtar performed an open trial investigating the use of garlic in giardiasis. Twenty-six children infected with G. lamblia took 5ml crude extract (fresh garlic blended with distilled water and then centrifuged and filtered to remove the solids) in 100ml water twice daily or a commercial garlic preparation two capsules (0.6mg capsules) twice daily for three days. Both preparations were given on an empty stomach two hours before meals. Clinical symptoms subsided in all cases within 36 hours. Parasitic cure (according to stool examinations) occurred within three days of beginning treatment.
    Actually, the fact that you have never had stomach pains for any reason is a bit of a red flag. For instance, when I have stomach pains that have been ongoing for two days, they are normally are gone by the third day, no matter what I do. Most things run their course.

    I couldn't get the webpage to come up for some reason. Those are interesting results. What happened with the control group? It's pretty difficult to "double blind" a garlic study, but there should be a control group getting same treatment, sans garlic.

    Also, there is no reason to believe that garlic would be some kind of silver bullet that only worked on giardia. I'd expect it would have some sort of effect on all sorts of things. Having said that, people should keep in mind that garlic and garlic oil are susceptible as carriers of botulism. I don't mean garlic cloves with intact skin. I mean cut-up garlic. (The same with green beans, too, as an example.)

  12. #12
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    For whatever it is worth, I rarely treat water in any way. I try to avoid sources that look bad and I understand that how water "looks" has no bearing on if it is contaminated with "nasties" or not. I've found that I have less digestive and bowel issues on long hikes than I do in "normal" life at home. Of course, it is sort of tough to get hot wings and draft beer out in the woods.
    RYE
    What? Me worry??

  13. #13

    Default My stool sample...

    said I had it - out of a small lake in the western Wind River Range which had a huge beaver in it. I boiled my water, but, like an idiot, rinsed in raw lake water. It didn't hit until I'd been home for about a week. It was unlike any runs I've ever had. Around mid-AM, it felt like a rat was trying to eat its way out of my stomach. The runs were watery and gaseous, but not like, for example, samonella. The cure was two weeks of a sulfa which required no alcohol intake whatsoever. I'm very suspicious of "folk" cures. I tend to think that most people who think they've had Giardia haven't had the real thing...

  14. #14
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    Garlic is good for your digestive tract and helps fight fungi and toxins while sugar feeds such things (including giardia) so likely the garlic did you some good regardless of what you may have had.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by TIDE-HSV View Post
    said I had it - out of a small lake in the western Wind River Range which had a huge beaver in it. I boiled my water, but, like an idiot, rinsed in raw lake water. It didn't hit until I'd been home for about a week. It was unlike any runs I've ever had. Around mid-AM, it felt like a rat was trying to eat its way out of my stomach. The runs were watery and gaseous, but not like, for example, salmonella. The cure was two weeks of a sulfa which required no alcohol intake whatsoever. I'm very suspicious of "folk" cures. I tend to think that most people who think they've had Giardia haven't had the real thing...
    This sounds more like the reports I have heard....both the severity of the symptoms and the delay of onset. "I've had stomach troubles before, but nothing like this!"

    Like any infectious disease, there have to be people who get a mild case. Even so, without a lab culture, no one can know. As you say, there are times when the folk remedy isn't going to cut it. Heck...there are times when the "Best Western" medicinal remedy doesn't even cut it.

  16. #16
    Registered User makemerry's Avatar
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    "Actually, the fact that you have never had stomach pains for any reason is a bit of a red flag."

    I'm not categorically saying I've never had a stomach pain. I'm saying stomach pains are rare, and insignificant when they do happen. What would that be a red flag for?

    "Also, there is no reason to believe that garlic would be some kind of silver bullet that only worked on giardia. I'd expect it would have some sort of effect on all sorts of things."

    I'm not suggesting that it's a silver bullet. I would think, like you say, that it's probably helpful for a lot of things.

    Just to restate what I'm looking for:
    1) I'm interested in the experience of other people who have used garlic or other alternatives to flagyl to treat giardia.
    2) I'm interested in the experience of people who don't treat their water and don't get giardia. (I have found several such posts on this website.) Specifically I'm wondering if a healthy digestive tract is the reason these people don't get symptoms of giardia.
    3) I'm curious to know anyone can corroborate the opinion of the doctor who said that severity of giardia symptoms is often related to consumption of sugar (which is also related to the general health of the digestive tract.)
    4) This is not an attempt to prove anything. I'm tossing out an idea and I'd like to hear people's actual experience that might either corroborate the idea or not.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by makemerry View Post
    "Actually, the fact that you have never had stomach pains for any reason is a bit of a red flag."

    I'm not categorically saying I've never had a stomach pain. I'm saying stomach pains are rare, and insignificant when they do happen. What would that be a red flag for?
    Oh. I thought you really meant never. For someone who just does not get stomach pains at home, it wouldn't take much on the trail for something not too far from normal to seem like an awful lot. Giardia, OTOH, is a memorable event even for those who are fairly accustomed to gastrointestinal problems of one kind and another.

    It's kind of like the caution that sudden onset of "the worst headache you've ever had" is a warning sign for a stroke. If you're the kind who just never gets headaches, it isn't so much of a red flag. It doesn't mean that a person who never gets headaches would not still find a stroke to be the worst headache they've ever had. It just means that it is far more likely for them to describe a "normal" headache in that way.

    I've been around the sufferers, but so far, knock on wood, have not been stricken myself. If you had anything like that, you have my fullest sympathies. Now, I'll quit chiming in and leave the comments to the actual sufferers.

  18. #18

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    I think the Ol' G is a bit over rated. I wish I could find the link (somewhere on this site) but it was quoting a respectable medical source in which the author detailed that appox 90% of reported Giardia infections were really nothing but G.E. with E. Coli being the largest contributor.... a simple washing of the hands before eating would dramatically reduce the incidents of the beaver fever.
    Albeit I have never had Giardia or know of anyone that has had a diagnosed case of it, but believe, being a RN I have seen some rectal discharges that make me pray that I NEVER EVER have anything close or similar to reported incidents.

    As far as garlic goes, there have been recent studies stating that previous pro-garlic studies really were not conclusive when the evidence was correlated anew. This is going to be one of those "i'll never really know" topics, but it definitively can't hurt you.
    A low sugar diet will help in limiting the metabolism of the critters (good and bad) slowing down any transition from being simply colonized (having the bugs without any symptoms, most of us fit the bill) to infected where the belly pain starts.

  19. #19

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    i would not recommend self dosing of antibiotics either, opportunistic infections can occur and you may give yourself Clostridium Difficile while trying to prevent Giardia.

    of all the antibx's, flagyl is relatively safe and recommended for gram neg and gram pos bacilli as well as gram pos cocci (both anaerobes) which are found in your GI tract. It is also an anti protozoan (sp) so Giardia is toast.

  20. #20

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    I have some Oaxacan friends from Mexico, who swear that eating avacados raw, will kill most if not all parasites in the gut, and that they've been using them for years for this.

    I hope to never have the need to try out this treatment to see if they are right
    ad astra per aspera

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