Help with 50 miler in SW Virginia

[ShaneP]

Hello all,

Thanks for having me in your great forum. This looks like a site with tons of useful info that I plan to dig in and use.
I am a moderately experienced Backpacker,. I am now involved as a leader in a Boy Scout Troop.
We are hoping to do a fifty mile trek along the AT in SW Virginia this August. Our troop is comprised of mostly younger scouts. What I was thinking is that there would be a stretch of the AT leaving Mt Rogers going south that would give us a few days of less strenuous packing until we built up a little stamina.
We have to do fifty miles in five days.

Do any of you have a route that you could suggest?


S

[Lone Wolf]

Dickey Gap/Va. 16 back to Damascus is 49.2 miles. This would be a good hike

[jesse]

how much experience do they have? How much weight will they be carrying?
What I have noticed about boy scouts in general, and our troop in particular is they carry too much weight. There is no way I could take my son's troop on a 10 mile per day hike. Have your's done 10 miles in a day before? Why not take them on a 10 mile in and out, or a 20 mile loop shake down hike over a weekend and see. Why do you have to cover 50 miles? why not take 5 days and go 20 or 25 miles? IMO young scouts are not going to want to hike for 5 straight days, any way. You will probabbly have a mutiney.
Anyway good luck! and walcome to white blaze

[emerald]

L. Wolf's suggestion is a beauty, but your hike might be more enjoyable were you to do it earlier, when it's er and the catawba rhododendron and flame azalea are blooming. By then, most of the hikers some refer to as thru-hikers will be long gone.

You may want to make use of some of the campgrounds on Mount Rogers National Recreation Area or Grayson Highlands State Park. Showers and a place where groups can fully enjoy themselves without bothering other hikers who desire a quieter experience in the backcountry could be good for all concerned.

You may want to check out the links for Mount Rogers NRA and Grayson Highlands SP for more information.

Enjoy your hike and please let us know how it goes for you and your boys. 50-milers are the things of which memories are made. Mine was afloat rather than afoot on the Delaware River.

Best wishes and have fun!

[RockyBob]

Took my troop on a 50 miler in SNP. Not a whole lot of big ups and downs, and they get to see some great wildlife. Farther North than you are thinking of, but worth investigating

[emerald]

There may be some way to combine your 50-miler with fulfilling part of the requirements for hiking merit badge. That may or may not be possible or desireable. I'm only presenting an idea for your consideration, not necessarily saying it is a good idea.

I remember hiking 20+ with my troop after becoming a 2000 miler. It was that hike that counted toward their hiking merit badge. As I recall, the entire troop began the hike and finished it, but there were a few who were not exactly "happy hikers" toward the end of the hike.

It would probably be wise to determine in advance in so far as possible whether your plans are likely to result in the desired outcome. I should think you would want to make plans for some dropping out along the way.

That of course would mean making sure someone would be available to pick up and take home or provide alternate activities for those who choose not to continue with the others. Perhaps 2 adult leaders could prepare each day's camp for the group and pick up any stragglers and involve them in preparing the camp and/or starting meals, etc. That way even those who are unable to complete the hike can be involved with supporting it.

[Skyline]

how much experience do they have? How much weight will they be carrying?
What I have noticed about boy scouts in general, and our troop in particular is they carry too much weight. There is no way I could take my son's troop on a 10 mile per day hike. Have your's done 10 miles in a day before? Why not take them on a 10 mile in and out, or a 20 mile loop shake down hike over a weekend and see. Why do you have to cover 50 miles? why not take 5 days and go 20 or 25 miles? IMO young scouts are not going to want to hike for 5 straight days, any way. You will probabbly have a mutiney.
Anyway good luck! and walcome to white blaze

I'm certainly no Boy Scout, but I do recall overhearing at a shelter about some kind of hat or badge or plaque that you get in the BSA for 50 miles in five days. That might be why he "has" to do it.

[ShaneP]

Hey,

Thanks for having me. Their experience is limited. We did a good shakedown to Chestnut Knob at Burkes Garden and have another shakedown planned before we go.
Our rule on pack weight is no more than twenty percent of the scout's weight is allowed. We enforce that with a scale.
The fifty Miler is an award for scouting for doing such a thing. We only have five days to do it.
Definitely, it will be a stretch. That's why I was hoping that there might be a route that had a long downhill that we could cover a lot of miles on in a day or two and then do a few good humps after the boys had gotten some miles under their belt.
Doing a shorter trip is not out of the question. Mainly, we want to have fun. We are trying to get our troop much more into a backpacking kind of troop and away from what we see at District events where every other troop sets up in a field with a giant portable lodge and a Patio Kitchen 9000 with a generator. Now we are requiring everybody to come on any outing with all of their gear self contained in a backpack.

Thanks,

Shane

[emerald]

Definitely, it will be a stretch. That's why I was hoping that there might be a route that had a long downhill that we could cover a lot of miles on in a day or two and then do a few good humps after the boys had gotten some miles under their belt.

Doing a shorter trip is not out of the question. Mainly, we want to have fun. We are trying to get our troop much more into a backpacking kind of troop and away from what we see at District events where every other troop sets up in a field with a giant portable lodge and a Patio Kitchen 9000 with a generator. Now we are requiring everybody to come on any outing with all of their gear self contained in a backpack.

I don't know if you have the A.T. guide book and maps for this portion of the A.T., but I think L. Wolf suggested this segment and direction deliberately. He will no doubt post with additional information.

You might be able to incorporate a 20-mile day into this proposed 50-miler and some easier days too. Of course, the point of it all would be to have fun! You'll want to turn young people on to hiking and not turn them off. You'll likely know how to do that better than any of us here, but I'm sure many good ideas will be generated here that will be of use to you.

[Lillianp]

How old are we talking?
I've worked with doing "hiking" with 5-6 year olds (literally walking with stuff down a dirt road to a place maybe a half mile down the road) and taking 8 year olds up a hill. So, really, it depends on the age, I think.
I know that the camp I was at this past summer the fourteen year olds had to go on a big trip, one of them was hiking.

[cannonball]

In addition to hiking 50 miles the boy must complete 8 hours of service work in that stretch , if possible. Perhaps you could contact the local trail club and do some trail maitnence. That would be a great way to break up the hike as you could do that on day 3 or 4.
As one who has many years of volunteering as a scout leader I must say there is no way in hell I would take a contingent out in Aug to do 50 in 5 unless I did a shake down over nighter with them first. Just sayin.

[bigcranky]

Though it begins with a gradual downhill for a couple of miles, starting at Dickey Gap southbound has you climbing some significant mountains -- Iron Mountain to start, then back down, then up Pine Mountain, and back down, then up Wilburn Ridge, and back down, then up Whitetop, and a very long down to Summit Cut/US 58. After that it's easier through Whitetop Laurel Gorge, but it's still a good climb up Straight Mountain. This section is beautiful, but not particularly easy -- and it's hot in August.

You could hike the 50 miles from Damascus south to Kincora Hostel/Dennis Cove Road. I found that section a lot easier, though you won't get the big views and the balds and the ponies. If you wanted to do trail work, Bob Peoples at Kincora might be able to help you out.

[map man]

In my copy of the "Appalachian Trail Thru-Hikers' Companion" it says, "Be considerate of other visitors. Limit overnight groups to 10 or fewer persons." I believe that is the policy of the ATC (Appalachian Trail Conservancy) but you might want to check their web site to be sure. I know some hikers have not taken kindly in the past to large Boy Scout Troops (of more than ten) monopolizing some trail resources like shelters.

Also, there are some BSA rules which might conflict with some ATC guidelines. I've read an account of a Boy Scout leader who told a mixed gender couple they could not use the AT shelter some scouts were inhabiting because there was a Scout rule prohibiting scouts sharing overnight accomodations with women. I don't know if that is true of all Boy Scout Troops or just the one I read about.

If Scout rules run contrary to any ATC regulations, those ATC regulations take precedence on the AT. And the expectation on the AT when it comes to AT shelters is that you are expected to make room for other folks, if there is room, regardless of gender or sexual orientation.

[ShaneP]

Wow.

We're a peaceful bunch, and we have tents. so no worries on the shelter monopolies. We may stay near one, but we'll save the insides for the serious people. Doubt we'll have ten.


S

[Lone Wolf]

but we'll save the insides for the serious people

"serious" hikers don't count on shelters. just unprepared ones. most thru-hikers fit that category

[littlelaurel59]

I am organizing a group of scouts to do the Dickey's Gap to Damascus trip at the end of June, in order to earn the 50 miler award. The award requires a MINIMUM of 5 nights; we plan to take longer.

There are indeed several good climbs early in this route. I am planning shorter distances on those days, then longer distances after White Top. The route has a net elevation loss of about 2000 ft I think.

I am planning 2 food drops (with the help of friends and family), and will probably spend 1 night in Grayson Highlands SP (week night) where we can enjoy the luxuries of a shower and toilet.

We will tent (or hammock), and NOT use shelters.

Pack weight will be closely monitored. All non-essential items will be banned!!! As leader, I get to decide what qualifies as essential and non-essential.

One of the boys who plans to go has already been to Philmont, and we will organize our crew along those lines. Every boy will have a responsibility to lead.

[emerald]

We may stay near one, but we'll save the insides for the serious people.

If you come across any serious people, especially at shelters, stay away from them! Your time will be much better spent tenting with people who have a sense of humor.

[ShaneP]

Littlelaurel,

We only have five nights. Wish we had more, but volunteer leaders with time to burn are few and far between these days, myself included.
We've done it afloat the past few years.
We're not married to the Damascus area, but I sure do love it. Is there anywhere we could hop in past the bumpy first part and then go farther than Damascus?

S

[orangebug]

The big reason to consider an August hike.

Yum.

Blueberries.

Last year, I took my wife for her first ever overnight backpacking trip. First night near Thomas Knob, she saw deer. The following day, ponies. Camped immediately north of Wise Shelter and fed her wild blueberries for breakfast.

You will be hiking and camping, so there will be some discomforts regardless of the month and season. Part of becoming a good Boy Scout involves being prepared and learning how to have fun in many situations. It sounds like you have a good trip planned, have good advice for the general path, and hopefully a good group of kids and leaders to take advantage of all of this.

[chelko]

Shane,

I would have to agree with LW the hike he mentioned is probably your best bet for several reasons. Most notably is that it crosses several roads and allows for resupply and bailout points.

I have lead 50-miler trips for the past 7 years so I know what obstacles you are facing. As for the 5 days, listen to everyone else and avoid the trama of killing young kids. We usually take nobody under 14 years old, and require all to do a shakedown trip.

You may want to consider using other adult leaders to shuttle in and out via the road crossings to stretch the trip to a more managable 7 days. You can contact your local council to find qualified trained leaders who are active in Venture crews or the local OA lodge that are mostly college students who can hike and supervise with you. Also Virginia Tech has an outing club that is also an official AT trail club. Their members may be interested in helping to provide leadership and service project requirements.

Remeber it is better to spend seven days and have happy scouts that five and have angry parents.

Good luck,

Kevin