Cougars ( mountain lions)

[Wise Old Owl]

Just to pour a little gas on the fire:
Here in Central Florida, on the VanFleet bicycle trail, where I ride most weekends, I have spoken to two people who saw Panthers crossing the trail.
1. One woman, who was only a few minutes behind me, came to the rest area and said one just crossed in front of her. I asked all the questions (tail length, size, color etc.) and she knew the answers. She said she had seen many bobcats and this wasn't one.

2. another man a month later said he saw one at about the same place.

3 I asked a maintenance worker of any reports and he knew of a report of a sighting at mile 14 in early June.

I believe they are back and hope I'm blessed with a sighting myself one day

Also, about attacks: Those I have read about, do not involve face first attacks (Like a mean dog) but, rather,a sneak attack leap from cover.

Also, I believe the reluctance of the officials to accept the sightings as true somehow involves the paperwork for dealing with an endangered species. Like Shultze in hogan's heroes "I don't see nothingk!!"

Wait, a ..... you are in Florida & they are bending over backwards to save the animal. Up here in PA they could care less - We should drop a pair or two here in Valley Forge NP to take care of the deer.

[Del Q]

I did some quick research, the "Milford" cat, it definitely had close relatives, one with a wedding, a 1st communion and a baby shower in the towns that were listed.

Crafty cat.................

[Traveler]

Just to pour a little gas on the fire:
Here in Central Florida, on the VanFleet bicycle trail, where I ride most weekends, I have spoken to two people who saw Panthers crossing the trail.
1. One woman, who was only a few minutes behind me, came to the rest area and said one just crossed in front of her. I asked all the questions (tail length, size, color etc.) and she knew the answers. She said she had seen many bobcats and this wasn't one.

2. another man a month later said he saw one at about the same place.

3 I asked a maintenance worker of any reports and he knew of a report of a sighting at mile 14 in early June.

I believe they are back and hope I'm blessed with a sighting myself one day

Also, about attacks: Those I have read about, do not involve face first attacks (Like a mean dog) but, rather,a sneak attack leap from cover.

Also, I believe the reluctance of the officials to accept the sightings as true somehow involves the paperwork for dealing with an endangered species. Like Shultze in hogan's heroes "I don't see nothingk!!"

There is a bit more to just accepting a photo or anecdotal sighting claim, reluctance doesn't usually enter into that. If accepting a photo or sighting claim was all it took, Sasquatch would be confirmed to exist by now without anyone having proven it.

Unfortunately, here in the Northeast there have been mostly hoaxed photos the balance being mostly misidentified animals. Sighting and audio claims abound but are not substantiated. Animals leave evidence, absent this evidence it is difficult to claim they exist. Even the sole cougar that strolled out of South Dakota making it through CT until was killed on a busy road left traces of its passage behind, which is that science calls empirical data/evidence. Without this empirical data, science cannot confirm existence, which without this standard we would have imaginary creatures in great number said to exist like Big Foot, space aliens, and Mothman (really... a flying moth guy?).

Though science has a debate currently if the Eastern Cougar is a separate subspecies or not, the empirical data from these animals remains from the days it was with us (fur, scat, bones, etc). Breeding populations of any animal leave traces that are difficult to hide, especially when people are looking for them who have a lot of experience in where to look and what to look for. The last confirmed sighting of a cougar in CT in about 100 years was the death of the South Dakota cat a year ago.

There are the occasional cats that stroll through these mountains, but they are lone cats for the most part. These solitary visitors may eventually find mates and over the next half century develop a breeding population. A breeding population would be about 50 to 80 inside the ranging area of these animals. This would be very difficult to hide unless its Big Foot who apparently spends 93% of its waking time removing any evidence of its existence.

Having spent a fair amount of back country time all over the US, including the western states that have cougar populations, I can honestly say I have never seen any of the evidence in New England of these cats that can be easily seen in places with breeding populations. With personal experience mirroring what science is saying, the conclusion is not hard to reach, that there is no longer a breeding population of cougars in New England at this point in time.

[imscotty]

http://www.boston.com/news/animals/2...d-her-property

If true, this would be the third report of a mountain lion near the Quabin reservoir

The other two sightings are described below (Source Department of Fisheries and Wildlife website)...

Although there have been many reports, there are two records of Mountain Lions in Massachusetts that meet the evidence requirement for a Class1 or a Class 2 Confirmation (see above). To date, other reports accompanied by evidence have either been determined to be another species of animal, or have been impossible to identify due to the poor quality of evidence. Mountain Lion reports without any form of evidence cannot be investigated or confirmed.
Case 1
In April 1997, John McCarter, an experienced tracker who had been trained by Paul Rezendes, found scat near a cached beaver carcass at the Quabbin Reservation. The beaver was partially eaten and covered with brush. A scat sample was sent to Dr. George Amato of the Wildlife Conservation Society in New York and Dr. Melanie Culver of the University of Maryland for DNA analysis. Both labs confirmed that the sample came from a Mountain lion. This record has been accepted by MassWildlife and the Cougar Network as a Class 1 Confirmation. At that time the technology was not available for the lab to do a DNA profile to determine a more precise geographic origin of this animal.
Case 2
On March 4, 2011, Steve Ward, a DCR forester, photographed a track trail in the snow crossing a frozen cove near the Gate 8 boat launch area of Quabbin Reservoir. These tracks were fresh and well photographed. The photos were examined by tracking experts Paul Rezendes of MA, Charles Worsham of VA, George Leoniak of VT, and Dr. Mark Elbroch of WY. These tracks may well have been made by the young male Mountain Lion that was documented by DNA at Lake George, New York on December 16, 2010 and next by DNA and photos in Greenwich, CT on June 5, 2011, and killed by a vehicle six days later (See more below).

[Kaptainkriz]

What is the cat like thing at 0:14 and a few other places?

[u.w.]

Definitely a bobcat. Several times in that video - A bobcat.

u.w.

[Macpaks]

Definitely a bobcat. Several times in that video - A bobcat.

u.w.

Agreed. And a small one at that.

[ScareBear]

Bobcats. One of them was actually normal size. A couple of the bears were BIG ones. Big fat sows....yikes...

[Dogwood]

S NP. Bobcat.


What that vid demonstrates so well is how different species use the same trail. It is also a reminder that camping in the middle of the trail is problematic to wildlife encounters.

[Kerosene]

It is also a reminder that camping in the middle of the trail is problematic to wildlife encounters.

Very true. The one time I camped in the middle of the trail was about 3 miles north of Pinkham Notch in Sept. 2006. We had dilly-dallied from LOTC Hut on a gorgeous day and ran out of daylight. In addition, my partner and I (Hikerhead) had become separated. Realizing that it would be difficult to get to the Notch along the poorly blazed trail, I kept looking for a place to camp in the rapidly fading light and finally settled on the only flat patch of earth I had seen in a few miles, right after crossing a marshy area. As I dropped my pack I heard a H-U-G-E animal moving through the pines in the marshy area, causing me to yell in surprise. At first I thought it had been a bear, but as I was staking in my tent I realized that it had probably been a moose (it took me another 6 years to actually see one on the AT). Just as I was lying down, I realized that an animal that large might simply plow through my tent and step on my head as it passed along the trail. Even though I was exhausted it took me a while to banish those thoughts and fall asleep. I was up before dawn and kept walking until Pinkham Notch where I treated myself to a big breakfast before catching the shuttle back to our car at Crawford Notch. Hikerhead hobbled out several hours later with newly-formed blisters from our forced march after enjoying a serene breakfast on Lowe's Bald Spot.

[sketcher709]

http://www.boston.com/news/animals/2...d-her-property

If true, this would be the third report of a mountain lion near the Quabin reservoir

I live in Princeton MA and saw a mountain lion cross the road in front of my house one night about 3-4 years ago. I have spent the better part of my l50 years in the woods and I have seen it all over the year including plenty of bocast. I can tell you, I saw a mountain lion - long tail and all. A few month later, I was talking to a neighbor who told me she had a wildlife camera set up to try and capture video proof of the mountain lion that has been seen crossing the road in front of her house. I had no idea others had seen one and it was only by coincidence she had told me about the camera. I had not yet told her of my experience.

More recently, FINALLY a horse was attacked over the summer in Petersham and the owner send out hair and blood samples herself, to a lab she chose. It is said that she would not hand over samples to wildlife officials as it is always seeming those samples go missing or are somehow inconclusive.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wir...-lion-43874536

A few years ago we had two livestock killings here in town not long after I saw the ML. Maybe a year or two later. At least one of them unusual in that the lamb was dragged over a fence and the only animals capable of doing that are bears and mountain lions. And bears usually are too lazy to kill and drag off their prey. So the "officials" left the carcass out in the woods for the night with a camera and a bear came along and had a snack. Just as you would expect a bear to do. The wildlife "officials" then concluded that it was the bear who killed and dragged the lamb over the fence the previous night. Color me cynical.

I hope I get lucky enough to see it again. It was quite an awesome, if fleeting, sight.

[imscotty]

I live in Princeton MA and saw a mountain lion cross the road in front of my house one night about 3-4 years ago. I have spent the better part of my l50 years in the woods and I have seen it all over the year including plenty of bocast. I can tell you, I saw a mountain lion - long tail and all. A few month later, I was talking to a neighbor who told me she had a wildlife camera set up to try and capture video proof of the mountain lion that has been seen crossing the road in front of her house. I had no idea others had seen one and it was only by coincidence she had told me about the camera. I had not yet told her of my experience.

More recently, FINALLY a horse was attacked over the summer in Petersham and the owner send out hair and blood samples herself, to a lab she chose. It is said that she would not hand over samples to wildlife officials as it is always seeming those samples go missing or are somehow inconclusive.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wir...-lion-43874536

A few years ago we had two livestock killings here in town not long after I saw the ML. Maybe a year or two later. At least one of them unusual in that the lamb was dragged over a fence and the only animals capable of doing that are bears and mountain lions. And bears usually are too lazy to kill and drag off their prey. So the "officials" left the carcass out in the woods for the night with a camera and a bear came along and had a snack. Just as you would expect a bear to do. The wildlife "officials" then concluded that it was the bear who killed and dragged the lamb over the fence the previous night. Color me cynical.

I hope I get lucky enough to see it again. It was quite an awesome, if fleeting, sight.

Sketcher, did you report your sighting to Mass. wildlife? And if so, how did they respond?

I know that many people north of the notches in NH do not report their sightings to wildlife officials because they feel that the goal of this officials is to just discredit them as ignorant or crackpots.

[Engine]

...A few years ago we had two livestock killings here in town not long after I saw the ML. Maybe a year or two later. At least one of them unusual in that the lamb was dragged over a fence and the only animals capable of doing that are bears and mountain lions. And bears usually are too lazy to kill and drag off their prey...

I was lucky enough to see a bear take down a yearling deer in Cades Coves once. Immediately after killing it, it picked up the deer and ambled off into thicker cover to enjoy it's meal.

Sketcher, did you report your sighting to Mass. wildlife? And if so, how did they respond?

I know that many people north of the notches in NH do not report their sightings to wildlife officials because they feel that the goal of this officials is to just discredit them as ignorant or crackpots.

That has been the modus operandi of Florida Fish and Game for many years. For many years they maintained there were only 25-30 panthers in the entire state, all down in the everglades. Every time someone would see one and report it, it was dismissed as a case of mistaken identity. They still don't openly admit to many sightings being legit, but the number of cats in the state is definitely much higher than the numbers they report. I've never been lucky enough to see one, but I know quite a few people who have.

[Thinspace]

There was a mountain lion killed by a car in CT in recent years (not sure exactly when). F&G allegedly determined by DNA sample that it had migrated all the way from the Dakotas

[Teacher & Snacktime]

Approx 4x4 (no bobcat) found near Raven Rock Shelter in MD on 1/12/17. No discernable claws. What else could it be?

IMG_1850.JPG IMG_1850 (2).jpg

[ScareBear]

Approx 4x4 (no bobcat) found near Raven Rock Shelter in MD on 1/12/17. No discernable claws. What else could it be?

IMG_1850.JPG IMG_1850 (2).jpg

Bobcats can go as big as 2x2, but that would be a real big one. If that is 4x4, it isn't a bobcat...it is an adult cougar, for sure!

[martinb]

Teacher, way too big for bobcat print. This is very similar to the print I saw in GSMNP years ago.

[Teacher & Snacktime]

Bobcats can go as big as 2x2, but that would be a real big one. If that is 4x4, it isn't a bobcat...it is an adult cougar, for sure!

Teacher, way too big for bobcat print. This is very similar to the print I saw in GSMNP years ago.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. Speedbump found several of these in the area from the shelter to the road. It's a little disconcerting to think about the company we may have had on our little stroll in the woods....

[rocketsocks]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. Speedbump found several of these in the area from the shelter to the road. It's a little disconcerting to think about the company we may have had on our little stroll in the woods....

Yikes! But a nice find.

[Teacher & Snacktime]

Yikes! But a nice find.

Yeah, it's a mixed emotion certainly!