Shelter etiquette

[tribes]

Here is my take on snorers and shelter ettiquette. Shelter space is determined on a first come first serve basis. This is commonly accepted. Are there any rules in place that govern snorers? No there is not. So if you snore and there is space in the shelter then you have every right to move into the open spot for the night. Will all the other hikers that stay with you that night have to "deal"? Yes, they sure will.

With all that being said, I would like to point out the topic of this thread, which is "Shelter Ettiquette". The only problem with snorers is the noise that their snoring creates and sometimes the vibration and rattling of the shelter walls, roof, etc....(most have spent at least one night with a chainsaw snorer). Snorers who know they snore and stay in a shelter knowing they may keep others awake all night to are inconsiderate if you ask me. If they were to stay up all night being noisy and talking one would probably consider them rude and I would venture to say that some may even "shoosh" them. Noise is noise....sleeping or not. If you choose to stay in a shelter and you are a bad snorer, you are saying that you do not care if everyone else in this shelter doesn't get a wink of sleep. In my opinion.....bad etiquette.

I agree with you totally Komodo on the leki thing. When someone comes to a shelter and warns of their snoring we forwarn, "poking rule" in effect".

[oyvay]

To all the hikers that poke snorers to stop them from snoring, may you all get leki shoved where the sun don't shine! The shelters are first come first served, rain or not, snorers, stinkers, all are welcome.
Personally I don't understand why anyone would want to sleep in the shelters. Tents are warmer when it's cold out and bug free when it's warm(I've "donated" a lot of blood to the local mosquito population by sleeping in the shelters).

[Former Easy]

My top three shelter annoyances are as follows:

1) Gearheads .......... these folks talk about gear every waking minute, nobody gives a ratz a$$ what kind of gear they carry.

2) Late Arrivers .............. these folks usually walk into a shelter area after dark and when everyone is just about to fall asleep, nobody gives a ratz a$$ if they hiked 25 miles or not.

3) Whiners .............. those that bitch about the trail conditions, their blisters, whine about other hikers etc........

I don't stay in shelters often but when I do these are my top 3 annoyances. I do snore and will stay in a shelter only if the weather is really bad or I'm forced to stay in a shelter, like in the Smoky's (however never again, i'll risk the fine). I have mentioned that I snored to others and have had no problems other than a few humorous comments I can handle. However should someone poke me with a hiking pole I would take that as a threat of bodily harm and my common courtesy ends there .......

[Chappy]

Originally Posted by Former Easy
I don't stay in shelters often but when I do these are my top 3 annoyances. I do snore and will stay in a shelter only if the weather is really bad or I'm forced to stay in a shelter, like in the Smoky's (however never again, i'll risk the fine). I have mentioned that I snored to others and have had no problems other than a few humorous comments I can handle. However should someone poke me with a hiking pole I would take that as a threat of bodily harm and my common courtesy ends there .......

This thread has moved away from my original question...but that's ok. I've learned a lot and the responses have been interesting and entertaining.
So, since I started this thread I'm going to move it in another direction. Former Easy mentioned being forced to sleep in shelters in the Smoky's. I guess that means no tenting in the Smoky's?? I'd be interested in hearing your experiences. Thanks.

[Footslogger]

I say sleep wherever you're comfortable sleeping. Can't remember a night in a shelter where at least one person had to get up in the night to water the lillies. It's just not a problem ...unless you make it one by being really noisey. Problem with getting up in the middle of the night to pee when you're sleeping in a shelter is that just about everyone goes directly behind the shelter to do their business. Suggestion would be to walk a little distance away from the shelter before off loading liquid waste.

Another option is to carry a "pee bottle". It is pretty easy in a shelter (at least for guys) to discretely fill a bottle with pee and then get up in the morning and find an appropriate place to dump the contents.

[Footslogger]

This thread has moved away from my original question...but that's ok. I've learned a lot and the responses have been interesting and entertaining.
So, since I started this thread I'm going to move it in another direction. Former Easy mentioned being forced to sleep in shelters in the Smoky's. I guess that means no tenting in the Smoky's?? I'd be interested in hearing your experiences. Thanks.

Chappy ...if shelters are full in the Smokies you can tent in that general area. I'm a relatively slow hiker and generaly found the shelters to be full when I arrived at night. I tented about half the time while I was in the Smokies and never had a problem You definitely want to try and camp in or near the shelters in the Smokies thought because that's where the water sources are.

[Hammock Hanger]

Originally Posted by Chappy
This thread has moved away from my original question...but that's ok. I've learned a lot and the responses have been interesting and entertaining.
So, since I started this thread I'm going to move it in another direction. Former Easy mentioned being forced to sleep in shelters in the Smoky's. I guess that means no tenting in the Smoky's?? I'd be interested in hearing your experiences. Thanks

Depending on the time of year that you go sleeping in your tent can be a good thing. It is usually much warmer then the shelters. AND no one will knot up the chain...which makes it almost impossible to get out anf pee in the wee hours of the morning. I speak from experience.

Sue/Hammock Hanger

[Valmet]

I have not stayed in a shelter in the past 7 or 8 years. That way I don't bother anyone and they do not bother me. I have had very good experiences and very bad experiences in a shelter. But the main reason is the mice, I just can't stand the mice. I have had some very funny experiences in a shelter. Once in the smokies at Spence Field shelter one night a couple became amourous on the top bunk. No one was sleeping and then a big booming voice from below said "if anything drips on me I coming up there". The whole place erupted in laughter. The guy had convinced her everyone was sleeping.

[Jaybird]

My, my...where is Miss Manners when U need her???????????

hehehehehehe

i snore, a bit, & usually fore-warn all those around me of the fact...other than that....i usually tent in fair weather & only use shelters on rain-soaked nights (or worse).

i think the loudest SNORE Chorus i've ever heard was @ Deep Gap shelter May 2002....Alabam, Not Keith, Mad Musician, Bootless, Yankee Clipper, Jaybird & TeePee & a few more (that snuck in during the nite) had a decibel level approaching the ULTRA-RED ZONE.


good luck & grab the ear-plugs!

see U up the trail in 2004!

[Skyline]

If you know you are a light sleeper, and you know other people's habits, mice, etc. (whether incidental or inconsiderate) are going to bother you, why would you choose to stay where these things will affect you? It's not about who is right or wrong, it's about getting a good night's sleep. So I tent 97% of the time.

Having said that, one night at Vanderventer in '97 I was tenting at least 150 feet away when three hikers were using the shelter. One's trail name was "Amtrak," earned no doubt because his snoring decibel approached that of a diesel engine. Way out there in my tent, it was loud enough that it seemed he was right next to me. How in the world those other two tolerated it inside the shelter is baffling. But maybe they were very sound sleepers . . . which kinda goes back to my point in the first paragraph.

[Brushy Sage]

I snored occasionally, and sometimes I got up to pee during the night, and nobody ever complained. Maybe it was because of my white hair. Anyhow, thanks to all who put up with it!

[Alligator]

This thread has moved away from my original question...but that's ok. I've learned a lot and the responses have been interesting and entertaining.
So, since I started this thread I'm going to move it in another direction. Former Easy mentioned being forced to sleep in shelters in the Smoky's. I guess that means no tenting in the Smoky's?? I'd be interested in hearing your experiences. Thanks.

There are a couple of places in the Smokies where you can leave the trail and hike to tent sites. The elevation drop/gain can be steep, but it is worth it if you don't wish to be tied to the shelters. We I did the smokies, I only stayed in the shelters half the time.

[Lemni Skate]

I snore. I know this so I tent. I love the company of other hikers when we're sitting around talking and eating, but I don't want to be jabbed and awakened in other ways.

My solution...I take the tent site farthest from the rest of the people, and when they start to bore me, I go to my tent and sleep.

When the topic comes up people usually thank me for being so considerate.

Now, if the weather is terrible, then I will get in the shelter. I figure, I've been considerate for 95% of the time, if there's a downpour then I ought to get some love back.

I've never had anyone complain about me being in the shelter in those circumstances.

By the way, I'm a member of the PATC and the ATC. I pay my dues, I do trail work. I've also been known to leave some beer, sodas, and cookies and jerky near the trail for thru-hikers. I figure I have a right to the shelter when I need it.

[earlyriser26]

If you stay in a shelter and have any expectations of sleep, you are crazy. Bring a tent. I haven't stayed in a shelter in over 20 years. They do make good emergency shelters and places to eat lunch.

[Jack Tarlin]

Interesting thread and I'm glad someone revided it.

My quick take: I agree with the folks who've said that if you can't deal with the various annoyances and problems caused by a communal lodging/sleeping arrangement, then you'd probably do well to avoid shelters altogether.

That being said, shelters are primarily a place for folks to sleep. If you anticipate behaving in ANY sort of activity that might result in disturbing your fellow hikers, and especially disturbing their right to a good night's sleep, then you'd be well advised to also avoid shelters.

Some examples of activities that'd be likely to disturb others:

*Arriving late in the day (or at night) and moving into the shelter after folks
have gone to sleep
*Packing up and leaving the shelter really early in the morning
*Overly loud radios or music players
*Leaving your cell phone on so as to avoid incoming calls
*Excessive snoring; talking in your sleep; thrashing around, etc.
*Talking with others after it's clear that some folks have gone to bed
*Getting up frequently all thru the night

[jersey joe]

Jack, I agree with your reasons above except for the first two. If I stay in a shelter I typically have no issue if someone wants to wake up early and start hiking. I also see no problem with a weary hiker arriving late as long as they are somewhat respectful.

Usually after a hard day of hiking someone getting up in the middle of the night to pee once or twice isn't going to bother me very much.

[Lone Wolf]

Shelters are first come, first served. If you choose to stay in a crowded square box instead of camping in the thousands of acres around you, deal with it. Get ear plugs. Pretty simple.

5 years later i still feel the same. everybody has a right to shelters. late comers, early risers, snorers, cell users, etc

[Tin Man]

5 years later i still feel the same. everybody has a right to shelters. late comers, early risers, snorers, cell users, etc

yep, and the people who have figured it out, tent.

[kanga]

if you're in a shelter, you share the shelter. with all kinds. deal with it or tent.

[Jack Tarlin]

Gotta disagree with the sentiment "Deal with it or tent".

I absolutely agree that many folks who are troubled by some of the behavior and actions of others would do well to tent as opposed to staying in the shelter, but this doesn't mean that ANY sort of behavior is acceptable or should be tolerated. When one says "Deal with or tent" it seems that one is saying you have to put up with ANYTHING you encounter in the shelter, and there are all sorts of behaviors and actions that one shouldn't have to put up with. Engagining in behavior that is liable to bother or disturb other people who are sharing communal space is simply rude, and this includes all sorts of activities. One shouldn't have to "deal with" a group of people publicly doing drugs; one whouldn't have to "deal with" people who noisily decide to play cards til two in the morning; one shouldn't have to "deal with" someone who decides to enter a shelter at minight and then noisily unpacks his stuff and starts cooking dinner. There are all sorts of things one shouldn't have to "deal with" or tolerate.

In short, there are all sorts of activities that are downright inconsiderate, and people shouldn't have to put up with this. There are certain things one should be willing to put up with if one elects to stay in a Trail shelter, but one shouldn't be expected to graciously put up with ANYTHING. There are some behaviors and actions that are simply unfair to others if not outride rude, and these are not things for which the correcrt response is "Deal with it!"