Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 85
  1. #1
    Section Hiker, 1,040 + miles, donating member peter_pan's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-05-2003
    Location
    williamsburg, va
    Age
    66
    Posts
    1,150
    Images
    10

    Default Under-quilts - the best answer

    My hiking partner (Smee) and I have been actively working and testing hammock insulation ideas and systems for over two years. In our experience, the under-quilt is the best answer. Our homemade, down filled models have undergone a fair amount of testing. Our earliest quilts have seen 80 nights of use and 800+ miles of the AT. We are in the final stages of weight reduction and determination of the best overall attachment system. Read simplest, lightest, with adequate durability.

    The real questions are:
    1. Does the hammock community like the idea of under-quilts?
    2. What design features should go into under-quilts?
    3. What do you think?
    ounces to grams
    WWW.JACKSRBETTER.COM home of the Nest and No Sniveler underquilts and Bear Mtn Bridge Hammock

  2. #2
    Registered User Dobber's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-15-2004
    Location
    Central Indiana
    Age
    57
    Posts
    8

    Default OK...I'll bite!

    I have a HH Explorer and like the idea of the underquilt. I've been following some of the threads and like all the creativity.

    I would like an underquilt that is 10-14oz, applied with either velcro or big buttons, and is a machine washable synthetic. I too have tinkered with the sewing idea, but the wife would think I'm nuts for spending that much time on something. Besides, my applied sewing skills are sub par.

    So, if you guys put something together that is functional, practical, and priced right, "then I'll probably buy at least one!"

    How is that for some feedback!

    Thanks for your yankee ingenuity...

  3. #3
    First Sergeant SGT Rock's Avatar
    Join Date
    09-03-2002
    Location
    Maryville, TN
    Age
    47
    Posts
    14,711
    Images
    248

    Default

    While I was initially skeptical of the underquilt, I am now a believer.

    What I would like to see:

    1. about 2" loft under critical spots like the butt, back, and shoulders; about 1-1/2" under the rest.
    2. A DWR shell in case of splash.
    3. Light weight - somewhere around a pound in weight.
    4. Quick and easy attachement. Minimal modifications to the hammock, and modifications that will not reduce the lifespan of the hamock.
    5. I also belive it would be possible to make the under-quilt with a head hole and collar so that the collar could plug the head hole. This way the under-quilt could be a multi-use item by becoming a clothing article that could be worn in camp when the hiker is not in the hammock - sort of like a blanket poncho.
    SGT Rock
    http://hikinghq.net

    My 2008 Trail Journal of the BMT/AT

    BMT Thru-Hikers' Guide
    -----------------------------------------

    NO SNIVELING

  4. #4
    Addicted Hiker and Donating Member Hammock Hanger's Avatar
    Join Date
    09-04-2002
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
    Age
    57
    Posts
    2,016
    Images
    222

    Default quilt...

    I too am a longtime hammock hanger. I love the quilt idea and have made a few. So as not to repeat I agree with everything Sgt Rock posted. I never thought of the duo purpose and thinnk it would be nice but not mandatory. I just don't want it to weigh too much.... My down one was 21 oz. and that was not using a water resistant material.

    I do believe that the underquilt is the answer to cold weather hammocking.


    Sue/HH
    Hammock Hanger -- Life is my journey and I'm surely not rushing to the "summit"...:D

    http://www.gcast.com/u/hammockhanger/main

  5. #5
    Administrator attroll's Avatar
    Join Date
    09-03-2002
    Location
    Litchfield, Maine, United States
    Age
    54
    Posts
    5,056
    Journal Entries
    201
    Images
    268

    Default

    I believe Peter Pan has some pictures in the photo gallery where he is waring his under quilt.
    AT Troll (2010)
    Time does not wait for you, it keeps on rolling.

    Whiteblaze.net User Agreement.

  6. #6
    First Sergeant SGT Rock's Avatar
    Join Date
    09-03-2002
    Location
    Maryville, TN
    Age
    47
    Posts
    14,711
    Images
    248

    Default

    Yes, that is something like what I was thinking of, but instead of a full length slit up the front, I was thinking more along the lines of a 20" long head hole with a collar that can plug up the hole.

    So what are the stats on that underquilt?

    I have also thought about making a dowwn quilt that compliments the system. The overall plan is a evazote pad that goes in the hammock and can be used in a shelter if the hammock is not used and will also support the Gearskin, an underquilt I can use as part of my clothing system in camp, a quilt that works inside the hammock (ie Hungry Howie's), and a slightly larger tarp from Brian like this: http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/da...98000_0330.JPG.

    I think with that sort of system with the clothing I already own, I can have a VERY comfortable and flexable system that will keep me hiking and comfortable here in the south for all four seasons.
    SGT Rock
    http://hikinghq.net

    My 2008 Trail Journal of the BMT/AT

    BMT Thru-Hikers' Guide
    -----------------------------------------

    NO SNIVELING

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    02-14-2004
    Location
    Austin,Tx
    Age
    42
    Posts
    17
    Images
    1

    Default

    I just got the explorer ultralight b/c I am 6'3" but haven't been out in it yet. I also just finished making a summer quilt that has approx 1.25" loft. It is similar to the one you mentioned some time ago peter pan 78X52X1.25 rectangular with draw string on bottom and strips of velcro. I just completed it last night but I might make it my underquilt during cooler weather and quilt for warmer weather (original intent). As you can see the dimensions are huge b/c of my size but it only weighs 15oz b/c I used 0.8oz dwr ripstop for both top and bottom.
    I saw the picture of the underquilt yall created with a slit in the entrance. I was currently thinking I might be able to fold my quilt in half and have approx 2.5 under my body. This would be 27in wide and would only cover the critical part "under my body". Attaching it.....have a couple of ideas but just now thinking about it. So that is another question: Can a smaller quilt be made that only covers the parts needed? This would keep the weight down considerably.
    Scott

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    02-14-2004
    Location
    Austin,Tx
    Age
    42
    Posts
    17
    Images
    1

    Default Quilt as a coat

    Rock, an option to your last question:
    "5. I also belive it would be possible to make the under-quilt with a head hole and collar so that the collar could plug the head hole. This way the under-quilt could be a multi-use item by becoming a clothing article that could be worn in camp when the hiker is not in the hammock - sort of like a blanket poncho."

    I just uploaded a couple of pictures of the quilt I just described being used as a coat. Check it out.
    Scott

  9. #9
    First Sergeant SGT Rock's Avatar
    Join Date
    09-03-2002
    Location
    Maryville, TN
    Age
    47
    Posts
    14,711
    Images
    248

    Default

    That isn't the way I envisioned it, but it does work.

    Here is a picture (not very good) of a head hole put in a poncho liner. The slit is 18" long and a little tight, but you can get the idea:

    http://hikinghq.net/forum/attachment.php?postid=3701

    I figured that an underquilt would have sort of a diamond shape, and with the head hole in the center it could work out pretty well.
    SGT Rock
    http://hikinghq.net

    My 2008 Trail Journal of the BMT/AT

    BMT Thru-Hikers' Guide
    -----------------------------------------

    NO SNIVELING

  10. #10
    Section Hiker 350 miles DebW's Avatar
    Join Date
    09-10-2002
    Location
    Boston area
    Age
    58
    Posts
    690
    Images
    55

    Default Speer Hammocks

    Now if you all would switch to Speer Hammocks, you wouldn't need the specialty underquilt. Just any old sleeping bag that opens across the foot would do. Most semi-rectangulars that zip open flat will do, or Kelty make some with a foot zipper, or others make foot drawstrings. Medicine Man posted a pic with the WM Ponderosa. I'd go with synthetic because of the chance of it getting wet or drug through the mud while putting my hammock up. Well, many solutions to the same problem.

  11. #11
    Section Hiker, 1,040 + miles, donating member peter_pan's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-05-2003
    Location
    williamsburg, va
    Age
    66
    Posts
    1,150
    Images
    10

    Default Feedback thanks

    Ask and you shall recieve. Thanks to all for your posts. Keep piling them on.

    If you go to the thread entitled Pad-bag for mid may hike you will see a detailed post of the specs of an under quilt that we are fabricating for Trail Days. Currently, Three quilts are complete and under testing and final adjustments. There are also pictures, besides the ones cited, at my gallery. Soon we will add pictures of my recent hang out at the Seminole Reservation in Big Cypress Swamp (hammock hangs over 6 ' deep run-off stream).five inches of rain fell in 16 hours, stayed dry as a bone including the under-quilt.

    To answer Sgt Rock. We also have cut down poncho liners with resealable head hole. and footsack capability. With bells and whistles mine is 15 oz...recall stock is a whole lot less flexible and is 21.5 oz. Also see the wearable parka length vest picture. It affords high mobility, great coverage. stays put and can be remounted to the hammock in less that a minute.

    We explored a couple af modells in the 30-36 inch with poor results. You can get some to work. BUT the hassles of getting it under you just right and keeping it there are a PAIN. This is analigous to the problems of using the maximum cut down pad, getting it under you, then waking each time some part of youshifts and becomes uninsulated. Not worth any saving in our opinion. For the record, my winter long section base pack is 13 lbs and summer week-end load breaks the 10 lb barrier even with a hammock system.
    We found rectanges better than the proximal diamond.First, they yield better coverage with absolutely hassle free use. Second thy provide alternate, read multiple uses, warm vest, cabin quilt, top quilt with footsack, enhance a 3 season bag for that ocassional winter trip.

    More later.
    ounces to grams
    WWW.JACKSRBETTER.COM home of the Nest and No Sniveler underquilts and Bear Mtn Bridge Hammock

  12. #12
    First Sergeant SGT Rock's Avatar
    Join Date
    09-03-2002
    Location
    Maryville, TN
    Age
    47
    Posts
    14,711
    Images
    248

    Default

    Have you got any shots of that with the hammock. I really like the green color.

    I would love to test one of those babies, but the weather is getting warm.
    SGT Rock
    http://hikinghq.net

    My 2008 Trail Journal of the BMT/AT

    BMT Thru-Hikers' Guide
    -----------------------------------------

    NO SNIVELING

  13. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    03-24-2003
    Location
    Greenwich, CT
    Age
    75
    Posts
    65

    Default

    Peter-Pan - After freezing my buns off on a sub 30 night, would definitely be interested in anything that is light, packable and easy to keep under you. I kept waking during the night when I slipped off my pad. Like the idea of a multiple use arrangement. Just a thought, anyone familiar with the material called ZYFLEX knows that it is a light, wind and water resistant fabric. I had thought of perhaps sandwiching a thin strip of primaloft between two layers of zyflex. If you do not know about ZYFLEX they have a site www.zyflex.com . Please keep us informed on your progress, a lot of people I suspect are interested in solving this puzzle.
    Last edited by bailcor; 02-29-2004 at 00:26.

  14. #14
    Section Hiker, 1,040 + miles, donating member peter_pan's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-05-2003
    Location
    williamsburg, va
    Age
    66
    Posts
    1,150
    Images
    10

    Default pictures

    Pardon our lack of organization. Pictures are at Member gallery...Peter Pan, also at member gallery...Smee. Some other pics are posted in the Other photo gallery...hammocks. We liked the green also as it supports our stealth camping style. The inside is black.
    ounces to grams
    WWW.JACKSRBETTER.COM home of the Nest and No Sniveler underquilts and Bear Mtn Bridge Hammock

  15. #15
    Springer-->Stony Brook Road VT MedicineMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    09-30-2002
    Location
    Roan Mountain,TN
    Age
    55
    Posts
    2,286
    Images
    522

    Default underquilts and pods

    Like Sgt Rock, DebW and others I have been working all angles at hammocking....the Ponderosa/CrazyCreekCrib combo is now proven for extreme temps and has proven very very comfortable at 23 degrees (actually too hot at 23F with pants). For those learning about hammocking there are really two angles on cold temps. First the underquilts/tacos, and second the pods (thanks to DebW and Ed Speer pods are the true solution for realy realy cold cold cold temps). My version of the pod, i.e. the POnderosa/CrazyCreebCrib combo was a ready solution of things I had and I think the Speer Pod is a slightly better solution in that it does readily cover the head-I solved that problem with a balaclava by Nunatak....but the POnderosa has a wonderful advantabe...zipped it is pulled up and over the body, that it is doesnt have to be unzipped to get out, just reach up and pull it down, maybe important for those who might feel trapped in a true pod design where the zipper could snag (though doubtful) or in a case when you need to get out quickly...though on the section hike of two weeks ago I crawled in and didnt move for 12 hours (DebW can relate to hiking in this kind of snow and ice-can you say instep crampsons!).....now back to underquilts. I have been using them successfully with the HH, mine being a sil-nyl aluminzed taco with slit matching up with the slit in the HH, and like Risk I have used extraneous insulation (stuff carried in my pack). The taco has a layer of Radiantek perm. sewn onto it for modest insulation...This taco setup has worked well until 32-35degrees and I would not take it if I felt temps were to go below 30F without adding a down underquilt (or Primaloft if you choose). I also have a down underquilt ordered from White Knight at the hammockcamping yahoo group. If any here are interested I will post about it when recieved.....
    On another topic, last week we did several rivers/state parks in southwestern florida with a return to the Everglades via the 10,000 Islands. I took this trip as an excuse to try the new (to me) HH Extreme Light Racer....WOW, this hammock is more comfortable than the ultralight backpack A-sym...and since this was luxurious paddling camping/and car camping I put in a huge inflattable pad that is 2inches thick (and a small close cell pad t-style like sgt rock suggested long ago to prevent cold-shoulder-wrap)..it was the most comfortable I have ever been in a hammock OR bed!.....

  16. #16
    Registered User
    Join Date
    01-12-2003
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    35

    Default underquilts

    A year ago I posted a description of an underquilt to Rock's site and to Thru-hiker - the url is http://iemedia.ca/dk/home.htm

    This underquilt has been used quite a bit and the more I use it the better I like it. It is very light, goes on to the hammock quickly and the modifications to the hammock were simple and stress the hammock very little when it is in place. I get the impression that we are going to see a lot of new ideas presented regarding underquilts, and while I won't hold this one up as the only way to solve the problem, it does offer a pretty good starting point for discussion.

    I live in Canada so my HH/underquilt gets subjected to some pretty chilly nights. There are three important issues to address with an underquilt, they are: 1.) fit .... 2.) fit ..... and 3.) (you guessed it) ... fit. ..... Because - on really chilly nights it doesn't matter what kind of insulation you have or how much of it you have on the outside of that hammock, if air can circulate freely between the underquilt and the hammock and "short-circuit" the insulation you are going to have cold spots. Furthermore, the shape of the hammock changes somewhat as you move around in it, so the underquilt needs to fit well and the fit needs to be somewhat flexible.

    If I were to make the underquilt again, I would:
    1.) use a little more loft - Sgt. Rock's thoughts of 2 inches are probably about right, and last fall I opened the baffles and added an additional 3 oz. of down and that took care of any cold spots. The problem that I had was that 1 1/2" seemed to be adequate but it took only minor shifting of the down to cause "thin" spots.
    2.) Use a slightly heavier elastic where the elastic stretches between the tie-outs across the underside. When it gets really cold it is nice to slip additional insulation (fleece jacket or ?) between the hammock and the underquilt and the additional weight of elastic would hold that a little better.

    The DWR (Durable Water Repellent) rip-stop on the underside of the hammock has worked very well.

    Initially I tried to attach it firmly to the hammock (velcro) but the system lacked the flexiblity necessary to move with the hammock. The system of shock cord and elastic has worked very well and I haven't come up with a better method with the exception that I mentioned of increasing the weight of the cross elastic.

    I have received questions about leaving a slit in the underquilt to correspond with the entry slot of the hammock. I felt then and I feel now that getting the fit right is complicated enough without adding another component like the slit. If, on the other hand, you can make an underquilt that doubles as something else without sacrificing fit, such as incorporating a hole for your head so you can wear it as Sgt. Rock suggests, then by all means go for it, just don't sacrifice fit for dual purpose.

    Some time ago I sent the pattern to Paul at Thru-Hiker and he is working on a computerized pattern and kit for this underquilt. I am not promoting the kit for remuneration, as I am not receiving any, but I will promote the kit as a way of not having to repeat some of the mistakes that I had to make to come up with it.

    Good luck with your projects.

  17. #17
    First Sergeant SGT Rock's Avatar
    Join Date
    09-03-2002
    Location
    Maryville, TN
    Age
    47
    Posts
    14,711
    Images
    248

    Default

    Found the picture: http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/da...C02752-med.JPG

    Does the large slit up the middle reduce the insulation quality of the quilt? I actually had a similar idea a while back and was talked out of it for this reason.
    SGT Rock
    http://hikinghq.net

    My 2008 Trail Journal of the BMT/AT

    BMT Thru-Hikers' Guide
    -----------------------------------------

    NO SNIVELING

  18. #18
    Springer-->Stony Brook Road VT MedicineMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    09-30-2002
    Location
    Roan Mountain,TN
    Age
    55
    Posts
    2,286
    Images
    522

    Default Sarg....

    funny think about the slit in my underquilt....when we sewed the taco we modeled the slit after a pair of boxer shorts with the result being that the taco closes on it own just like the HH's slit....now a problem that turned out positite, the radiantek line we sewed onto the sil-nyl will stick to velcro like crazy, at first I thought it an irritant and then realized that it sticks to the velco on the HH slit, once or twice when closing a long tuff of radiantek came into the HH slit, I reckoned that the slit was full and wouldnt leak air.....

    And for those newbies to cold weather hammocking note that I first attached underquilts alone and had those air gaps that Canoe-blue refereed to, but after attaching a sil-nyl taco the gaps were reduced in a major way along with blocking wind/rain/splatter rain...with the taco you can use less insulation too.

  19. #19
    Section Hiker, 1,040 + miles, donating member peter_pan's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-05-2003
    Location
    williamsburg, va
    Age
    66
    Posts
    1,150
    Images
    10

    Default

    Rock has a point on the slit and leaks. It concerned us too. Actual testing found it not to be a problem if properly attached. The design gives the option to attach the under-quilt slit sides to itself for a complete bottom. this does increase heat retention slightly. it is an option for the extra cold night. Acees degrades to the old, pull the under-quilt aside, get in let it snap back in place. This is no real issue, just not as convient as the HH slit entrance.
    ounces to grams
    WWW.JACKSRBETTER.COM home of the Nest and No Sniveler underquilts and Bear Mtn Bridge Hammock

  20. #20
    Registered User
    Join Date
    02-14-2004
    Location
    Austin,Tx
    Age
    42
    Posts
    17
    Images
    1

    Default

    CanoeBlue,
    First of all thanks for sharing your design and features. I will probably write to Paul directly, but since you mentioned it here, I was wondering if the pattern will be for multiple models, I have the explorer ultralight or just one?
    Also, in your design and for that matter any design out there, how (if possible) is an underquilt adjusted for temperature? I think you covered ways to keep you warmer when it get colder (adding extra insulation via clothing etc) but how about when the temperature starts to rise? Say 40s, 50s, 60s without having another system to haul along or will it not get too "hot" and isn't a problem? or would you just leave an appropriate sized air gap for the conditions?
    I would think a "single" variable system would be ideal for weight reasons.
    Thanks again for all the great information!
    Scott

Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
++ New Posts ++

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •