Under-quilts - the best answer

[Smee]

Materials for the next eight "Nests" have arrived. Peter_Pan and I will start the construction process this week. Quilts should be available in early July. Six of the eight are spoken for, although we've only received payment for three. If you're interested, contact us at [email protected].

[rgarling]

Medicineman quote: "remember the taco was simply a windproof/water resistent (hopefully breathable) barrier that held insulation against the bottom of the hammock dissallowing crushing of said insulation"



I've been using silnylon for the 'taco' in very humid conditions without a problem, so I think breatheable fabric needs above rather than below.

on the other hand, I have tried a waterproof, silnylon, peapod-type shell that covered the entire footend to above the shoulders (and posted the report under hammock pants in the yahoo group hammockcamping). I don't remember the precise temperature of the test(about 15*F I think), but they would rapidly (within 2 hours) gather a coating of condensation. This indicates a wrap-around shell definitely needs to be breathable.

[MedicineMan]

Aren't you the inventor of the Garlington Taco???
If so finally ( well my first welcome) welcome to Whiteblaze.
I have enjoyed your contributions to hammocking for some time now.
Like you I've had no problems with sil-nyl on the bottom,,,thinking we were only out no more than 3 days at a time and not long enough for it to accumulate...
Talked with Tom Hennessey last week when ordering his 'winter sol.' ,,,in the discussion we talked about Pertex, a fabric known to me for 2 years via the Rab Top Bag and a 6 day trip on Isle Royale, I'm sure he is studying it for future 'solutions'...WM has embraced it, too bag it took 2 years to reach our shores.
but back to moisture, it would seem that the human body is blowing most moisture up and that from the skin is convected by body heat up as well, so maybe too much emphasis on waterproof bottoms.
I was concerned with 'splatter' rain for a while, and used the sil-nyl taco not only to hold various insulations against the hammock bottom but just as much for the splatter rain,,,,now after many many a moon with various insulations on the bottom I have found that splatter wetness is overrated as well...maybe because I setup my hammock Shane Steincamp fashion and very high off the ground.

[rgarling]

Aren't you the inventor of the Garlington Taco???
If so finally ( well my first welcome) welcome to Whiteblaze.

Yes, that's me & thanks. It took a while to find my way over here, but there is quite a colorful and active community here, which I'm enjoying quite a bit.

I saw the picture of Hennessey's cold weather solution, and like it. Hopefully, the bottom will have some adjustment, so you can get whatever you decide to use for insulation up against the hammock bottom. I'll look forward to your comments on this. It could easily get me back into a HH after a couple of years in a top-loader. The quick pitching and light weight of the HH are hard to beat.

I haven't had much problem with splatter either (except for stuff left lying on the ground), and usually, I'm hanging low enough to use the hammock as a lounge chair. So far, no muddy splatter on the bottom!
Ray

[MedicineMan]

Whatever happened to 'WhiteKnight' at the hammockcamping yahoo group,,,seemed he ripped off many including me on an underquilt scheme?????
That was one reason me and many others were glad to see PeterPan/Smee i.e. Jack r Better underquilts hit the scene.

[neo]

My hiking partner (Smee) and I have been actively working and testing hammock insulation ideas and systems for over two years. In our experience, the under-quilt is the best answer. Our homemade, down filled models have undergone a fair amount of testing. Our earliest quilts have seen 80 nights of use and 800+ miles of the AT. We are in the final stages of weight reduction and determination of the best overall attachment system. Read simplest, lightest, with adequate durability.

The real questions are:
1. Does the hammock community like the idea of under-quilts?
2. What design features should go into under-quilts?
3. What do you think?

not every body can afford your excellent quilts,you can easily spend almost a 800.00 bucks on a set up like yours


1.hennessey ultra light hammock 170.00
2.jacks r better tarp 75.00
3.basic 3 season quilt set 455.00
4.weather sheild set 65.00
5.line tensioners 10.00
6.hammock pack cover 28.00
total approx 800.00

[peter_pan]

If you are a hammocker.... this thread has a lot of history....enjoy!

Pan

[take-a-knee]

Pharper,
You are right there are a lot of variables. The UQ which we have named,"nest" is basically good for 40 degrees, Adjusting the dead air space, putting a ground pad between it and the hammock, putting rain gear or other unused soft wear between it and the hammock all add warmth. You can also shield the nest with a wind proof shell, generally good for another5-10 degrees. We will be introducing a microporous polypropolene (read waterproof, windproof, and breathable) shell at Trail Days.I sleep with only a top quilt, someone using a full bag will gain some, but remember that what is between you and the hammock compresses and becomes very inefficient as insulation.

The real issue is what conditions due you want to meet. If you send me a PM with what you want to achieve I'll give you some specific recommendations.

Peter_pan

Pan, your 40 degree rating for the original Nest was conservative, the older 1.5in baffle model was the version I shortened to 60in (removed the last two baffle sections on the foot end). I slept comfortably down in the mid thirties a couple of weeks ago on the BMT with no extra clothing except a JRB Hood on the colder nights. The one night I did get a bit chilled it was because I had tightened the head end drawstrings a bit too tight (this caused a pucker in the UQ), and the wind was blowing between the UQ and the hammock. The current 2in baffle No Sniveler I was using for a topquilt was plenty warm, as expected.

[Egads]

If you are a hammocker.... this thread has a lot of history....enjoy!

Pan

This thread predates Hammock Forums http://www.hammockforums.net/

Does anyone else recall the turmoil on Whiteblaze then?

Wait...nothing has changed

[MedicineMan]

Just two days ago i was looking at one of my first UQs we made, it was out of an aluminized material with a sil-nylon shell, after that I converted a Golite sythetic quilt; all this a while before Jacks-R-Better had hit the scene....now if anyone asks me about an underquilt there is only one answer-the JRB Mt. Washington....the sweetest UQ made.

[take-a-knee]

Just two days ago i was looking at one of my first UQs we made, it was out of an aluminized material with a sil-nylon shell, after that I converted a Golite sythetic quilt; all this a while before Jacks-R-Better had hit the scene....now if anyone asks me about an underquilt there is only one answer-the JRB Mt. Washington....the sweetest UQ made.

What hammock are you using the Mt Washington UQ on?

[MedicineMan]

I'm using it on a Hennesseey Lite Racer (dont think it is made anymore).

[take-a-knee]

I'm using it on a Hennesseey Lite Racer (dont think it is made anymore).

Thanks, I have an older Nest with the shorter baffles, I'm eagerly awaiting the 3-season version of the Mt Washington. I'm betting that will be a solid 20F set-up with a No Sniveler/Hood combo.

I think you are right about that Hennessy Racer, I tried in vain to get them to make one from the same fabric they use to make the Hyperlight (for my 120# daughter) but they said just buy a Hyperlight. I guess I'll have to make it myself from Momentum 90.

[MedicineMan]

think about carrying a 1/4 inch closed cell pad..that's what i do, plus God forbid you go to ground you'll have that covered too. I think I got my last 1/4 inch pad from Speer but not sure. I know with it and the Mt. Wash. on the ground I'm good to 20F no doubt.

[take-a-knee]

think about carrying a 1/4 inch closed cell pad..that's what i do, plus God forbid you go to ground you'll have that covered too. I think I got my last 1/4 inch pad from Speer but not sure. I know with it and the Mt. Wash. on the ground I'm good to 20F no doubt.

Yes, I have a couple of 1/4in evazote pads I got from Oware, I trimmed them 28in wide for my torso and tapered them down to 18in at the foot. An UQ is a lot more comfortable but the pads will keep you warm.

That Mt Washington is supposed to be a heater, Kayak Karl started at Springer JAN 01 and had to hunker down in a snowstorm somewhere along the trail. It got down to zero and he said he stayed warm with just base layers, no jackets or anything.

[east_stingray]

Wow... that's impressive. I might have to go ogle the Jacks' sale page some more

[MedicineMan]

pad is amazing in what temp range it will give you...on solid frozen ground I think you need to up it to 1/2 inch though...
That pad you cut down, do you remember the weight? I'm carrying one that is still 'square'; i need to get the scissors out and shave an ounce

[take-a-knee]

pad is amazing in what temp range it will give you...on solid frozen ground I think you need to up it to 1/2 inch though...
That pad you cut down, do you remember the weight? I'm carrying one that is still 'square'; i need to get the scissors out and shave an ounce

My Oware evazote pad trimmed "coffin shaped" (torso 28in wide) weighs a little under seven ounces (it is only 60in long, Speer's pad is 6 ft). I can sleep down into the forties with one and into the twenties with two. As long as I'm sleeping at the lower end of the comfort range of the pad I don't get back sweats too bad. YMMV. Others have posted here that one pad really pushes a marginal underquilt pretty low, and if you have to go to ground, you have a pad.

[MedicineMan]

I'd say 10-15 more in the hammock and 20 on the ground...at 7 ounces (yours) it's hard insurance not to carry...the weight can almost be made up with a lighter underquilt too.
This story has been told before at WB but when doing Maryland I took the lightest UQ I've got. A surprising cold spell came through and the temps were in the upper 30s....too cold for what I had. So for the newbies I again tell this story. I hung my hammock very low to the ground and raked/scooped a big pile of leaves (took half an hour but the noodles were in the cozy)to get enough, and it took 3 re-ties of the hammock to get it to nestle into the leaves when I was in it. Also took the tarp to the ground and heaved leaves on the outside where it met the ground-result, slept HOT that night even though it was colder than the night before. The other thing was getting off the trail and on the other side of a little ridge that blocked wind.

[CowHead]

All of the above ideas and reasonably price, just can't get into people trying to make their first million by overcharging for things