Conference

[Lyle]

Just got home from the annual North Country Trail Association conference. This year it was in Cazenovia, NY (19 miles southeast of Syracuse). We had another wonderful time with approximately 160 like-minded individuals participating.

Great food, workshops, business meetings (yuk), HIKES, canoing, biking, site-seeing, silent auction (lots of great items, cheap), hilarious live auction (lots of great items, not so cheap ), awards cerimonies, musical entertainment, comedic entertainment, late evening trips to the local drinking establishments, plus plenty of old-fashioned visiting and renewing of friendships!

Next year's conference will be in Valley City, North Dakota. Promises to be every bit as good, already well on their way with planning and arranging. Mark July 30th through Aug 3rd on your calendars now!

For more info on the conference and other info on the North Country National Scenic Trail visit the NCTA website:

http://www.northcountrytrail.org/

[minnesotasmith]

What percent of the NCT is currently trail, as opposed to paved roads or dashed lines on a map?

Also, do you know anything about why the heck the NCT goes all the way down southward to roughly the western, southern, and eastern boundaries of Ohio? I never understood why that could be considered reasonable.

I'd really like to hike this trail one day, if it ever gets at least as complete as the Pinhoti is now. I don't know (I'm in my 40s) if I'll live that long, though. Too bad, as it's (mostly) in a really interesting part of the country.

[sheepdog]

http://www.northcountrytrail.org/
check out the website. It will tell you what is finished and what is being planned.

[minnesotasmith]

http://www.northcountrytrail.org/
check out the website. It will tell you what is finished and what is being planned.

"[The NCT is a]...footpath that stretches for about 4,600 miles linking communities, forests, and prairies across seven northern states. Already, more than 1,800 miles have been certified off-road. Additional miles follow shared paths, and some road walks yet remain."

The guy was just at an NCT conference. If he knows the % that's currently not on paved roads, I'd genuinely like to hear what it is.

[max patch]

Also, do you know anything about why the heck the NCT goes all the way down southward to roughly the western, southern, and eastern boundaries of Ohio? I never understood why that could be considered reasonable.

I bet -- just guessing here -- that they used the existing Buckeye Trail rather than cut a new trail.

[Lyle]

Over 1800 miles of the 4600 mile total have been certified by the NPS, meaning that they meet all standards set for a foot travel only trail. Another 1000 to 1200 miles are on the ground, off the road and ready to hike. These, however, do not meet the criteria the NPS has set for certification. For example, here in Michigan, the DNR insists that all trails be multi-use, so it is very difficult to get bicycles prohibited. This is the main reason much of our trail in Michigan has not been certified.

Over half of the trail is on the ground. This is, of course, the easy portions, the ones that are on public lands. The AT had a huge head start, and only recently succeeded in eliminating road walks. The AT also has a great advantage in that they can purchase property for the trail. Congress has not afforded NCT and several other trails even the approval for the NPS to purchase property from willing sellers, let alone condemning property as the AT has done. This is a major roadblock in many areas, one that we have been fighting for decades. Still, steady progress is being made through easements and third-party land purchases. This is a very cumbersome and difficult way to proceed however. If you are truely interested in helping out, contact your congressmen and Senators and urge them to support the "Willing Seller" legislation for all of the National Trails System.

Andy Skirka through hiked the NCT as part of his Sea to Sea Route hike a couple of years ago. Much of the NCT section was done in the dead of winter. There are a handful of other folks who have also through hiked the NCT, but most take more than one year, due to the northern route and number of miles - 4600 at present. Very serious consideration is being given to eventually expand the NCT both east and west to connect with the Long Trail/AT and CDT/Pacific Northwest Trail/PCT. This was the original vision of the NCT and would form a true footpath linking all the great North South oriented trails. A HUGE vision, but one that is making constant, ever improving progress.

Serious work is just beginning on establishing the basis for a guidebook/data book. A seperate but very complimentary project is the developement of a GIS based inventory of the trail and all structures associated with it. A grant has recently been obtained to do a pilot program in the Pennsylvania section for this project to ascertain it's value and feasability. If this works out as planned, NCT may become a model for other trails in this regard.

It is really exciting to be a part of this. If anyone else is interested, join us!



Regarding the NCT through Ohio. The Buckeye Trail Association is an Affiliate and very important partner with the NCTA, NPS and NCT. The trail follows the Buckeye trail through the state. The southern portion of the loop is by far the most scenic/rugged (also the area with the most public land), so that is why the NCT follows that portion. Tremendous progress has been made recently getting the western portion of the Buckeye/NCT off of roads and onto state-owned canal towpath. The state is so pleased with the progress and quality of trail being built, that they are suggesting new areas where they can offer land for the trail. This past year, they hosted a trail-building work week and had over 300 volunteers show up on one day!!! It's not unusual for them to get over 100 volunteers for a work week.

Again, if anyone is interested in helping out, you are more than welcome to join us. It is a long process, but the only way to do it is to keep working at it. That's how big projects get completed.

[ki0eh]

(I just got back from the same conference so I'm at least as smart as if I had stayed at the Holiday Inn Express last night )

The NCT "certification" means that it's single use footpath off road, and that it's gone through a vetting process through the National Park Service. As such "certified" NCT represents a conservatively low estimate of the off road trail that's hikeable - at least by day hikers.

At least in my native Upstate New York, including areas where I hiked on the last few days, there are segments that simply haven't been certified yet due to the paperwork involved.

Conversely, there are segments currently certified that haven't met in totality the very high standards for footway construction (which for the NCT are much stricter than for the A.T.); and there are also certified segments without dispersed camping availability.

From personal experience the question "what % is off road" is surprisingly difficult to answer. The kernel of that problem is to define what is a road. For instance, is a "road" something that's maintained by a public road authority, paved, for all season travel by registered motor vehicles? Plowed gravel? Seasonal dirt? Gated private? Or is a "road" an otherwise overgrown wagon track, not maintained since 1920, but still appearing on topo maps as a road?

Since the interest of the NCT managers is achieving certification, I suspect their data is geared more to that question. Perhaps they have enough data or can manipulate it enough to answer how much is off road uncertified footpath and how much is off road multiple use in addition to the certified mileage, but I'm not sure there is organizational interest in showing those figures.

In the absence of the secondary market for hiker information that the A.T. possesses, planning for a hike on the NCT does require some drilling down into the available maps and guides and a critical reading thereof. Then the interested hiker can always post here or at another favorite forum "what about X to Y segment".

[ki0eh]

Over half of the trail is on the ground. This is, of course, the easy portions, the ones that are on public lands. The AT had a huge head start, and only recently succeeded in eliminating road walks. The AT also has a great advantage in that they can purchase property for the trail. Congress has not afforded NCT and several other trails even the approval for the NPS to purchase property from willing sellers, let alone condemning property as the AT has done. This is a major roadblock in many areas, one that we have been fighting for decades. Still, steady progress is being made through easements and third-party land purchases. This is a very cumbersome and difficult way to proceed however. If you are truely interested in helping out, contact your congressmen and Senators and urge them to support the "Willing Seller" legislation for all of the National Trails System.

(Someone types faster than I do.) This is a very important point. It is also important to note that near the eastern end the NCT uses private land without ownership or easement rights, rather it is licensed (sometimes in writing, sometimes not even that!) by private owners ranging from farmers and hunting clubs to timber and energy companies. Many of these are even certified. However one needs to take great care on such lands as one indiscretion can get the trail closed forever.

One section I heard discussed during the conference involved a 50' waterfall on private land visited by a hiker with an off leash dog chasing the farmer's cattle; the irate landowner closed the NCT replacing the beautiful waterfall with a seven mile road walk.

[samh]

Did you learn at the conference what the status was in terms of legislation to include the Superior Hiking Trail, Border Route Trail and Kekekabic Trails in Northern Minnesota? These trails have been officially adopted by the NCTA but are awaiting official inclusion by the Feds as lie outside of the original trail corridor.

[Trillium]

It is really exciting to be a part of this. If anyone else is interested, join us!

I'm definitely interested in the NCT in Michigan. I'll be checking out the website in more detail. Did I correctly understand that the NCT headquarters is in Lowell, MI and that's where I would order materials from or could pick them up from there?

Is there anyone on this site that has hiked the NCT in Michigan? If so, what has been your experience? What part have you hiked? Any recommendation for best portion in MI?

[Lyle]

NCTA staff and volunteers in Minnesota have been very busy jumping through political hoops in order to satisfy the Senators involved in introducing and sponsoring the needed legislation. They have agreed that if all their concerns are addressed, they will propose the necessary legislation. One of the hoops was to get letters of support from EVERY governmental unit that will be affected. Every city, village, county, Federal and State agency etc. This was a major logistical job, but is nearing completion.

Not really expecting any Congressional action until sometime in the next term, when we will hopefully have a more sympathetic congress. Like I mentioned earlier, the wheels turn very slowly, but they are turning!

People often wonder why it takes so long to get anything done, but they usually have no idea all the work that goes into what appears to be even the simplest of things. Here, a simple re-route of the corridor for the NCT, onto already existing trail, takes an act of Congress!!! Frustrating at times? You bet, but rewarding too when progress is finally made.

[Lyle]

Trillium, yes the headquarter of the NCTA are in Lowell, just a short stones throw from the actual trail.

The NPS office that administers the NCT is in Wisconsin.

Maps and information can be obtained either via the web/mail or by stopping in at Lowell. The staff is extremely helpful and friendly.

There are lots of sections in Michigan both Upper and Lower that are great hiking. Some of the most popular:

Jordon River Valley - BEAUTIFUL 18 mile loop, great for an overnighter

Mannistee National Forest - about 126 continuous miles of NCT in great shape for hiking. Great loop hike possible when joined with the Mannistee River Trail, about 20 miles total. A suspension bridge was built near the Hodenpyle damn by the power company in order to make this loop possible. Check out this page for much info: http://www.northcountrytrail.org/explore/guide/e4.htm

In the Upper Pennisula, the sections between St. Ignace and Tequaminon Falls has received a lot of attention in recent years. I haven't personally hiked this section. Supposed to be real nice.

Of course the entire Pictured Rocks is a part of the NCT, and is a GREAT beginners trail, great for experienced hikers as well.

There are lots of options in Michigan for hiking the NCT. Those listed above are just the tip of the iceburg.

Pick a chapter to join if you want to get involved with building/maintaining. Most chapters also have at least a few social outings, either campouts or hikes, each year. If I can give a plug, the Tittabawassee Chapter (my home chapter) is made up of folks from Ann Arbor, Saginaw, Bay City, Gaylord, Higgins Lake, Petosky, and many other places including Croswell (me). We all travel many miles to work on our section which is in the Mancelona to Petosky area. Done with the commercial now.

Everyone is invited to join up. Particularly those in the NCT trail states of New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota and North Dakota.

[partly cloudy]

Good to see you 2 at the conference, Lyle and Ki0eh. Much going on and not much time to talk. North Dakota is a long way for me to travel but I have a year to plan. I hope to see you there, hope I can make it.

Every year the trail grows and more plans are set into motion. Soon the "Daks" will be routed, major accomplishment. And talk of connecting to the CDT and PCT is really cool. I feel priviledged to be associated with this trail. The Vermont Long Trail people are coming onboard. The 140 foot bridge in western Ohio. And so much more than I can mention.

If your ever in my neck of the woods, give a hoot and a holler. I'll be happy to spot yer car.

[Frosty]

From personal experience the question "what % is off road" is surprisingly difficult to answer. The kernel of that problem is to define what is a road. For instance, is a "road" something that's maintained by a public road authority, paved, for all season travel by registered motor vehicles? Plowed gravel? Seasonal dirt? Gated private? Or is a "road" an otherwise overgrown wagon track, not maintained since 1920, but still appearing on topo maps as a road?

Think like a hiker, not a lawyer. Forget dirt roads, overgrown wagon tracks, snowmobile right of way, etc etc.

Start with ROAD = PAVED

Or to get really specific ROAD = PAVED, CARRIES AUTOMOBLE TRAFFIC

No sense making this harder than it needs to be.

[minnesotasmith]

Think like a hiker, not a lawyer. Forget dirt roads, overgrown wagon tracks, snowmobile right of way, etc etc.

Start with ROAD = PAVED

Or to get really specific ROAD = PAVED, CARRIES AUTOMOBLE TRAFFIC

No sense making this harder than it needs to be.

That's exactly what I was thinking. I-94 = road. Fish Hatchery Road =/ road, but a trail in need of switchbacks.