Who's pissing everyone off?

[TD55]

Thank you, Warren.

It may set off a firestorm - especially given my current position as BMECC's Shelter's chairman - but sometimes I wonder if the trail would be better served without any shelters, any privies, any designated campsites - in short, NO real development beyond the clearing and marking of the footpath itself.

But THAT, of course, is another thread....

So, if this problem or alleged problem or whatever at this specific shelter is in any way due to or caused by poor caretaker training or lack of training or poor managment of any sort, that would fall on your shoulders and be your responsibility? Instead of finding a solution to a problem under your conrtrol you are suggesting channging the entire shelter and privy system of the AT? Wouldn't it be easier to just go out and get to the bottom of the problem and fix it?

[shelterbuilder]

So, if this problem or alleged problem or whatever at this specific shelter is in any way due to or caused by poor caretaker training or lack of training or poor managment of any sort, that would fall on your shoulders and be your responsibility? Instead of finding a solution to a problem under your conrtrol you are suggesting channging the entire shelter and privy system of the AT? Wouldn't it be easier to just go out and get to the bottom of the problem and fix it?

Actually, under the current division of responsibilities within the club, both the Rt. 501 "shelter" and the Eckville "shelter" fall under the jurisdiction of the Corridor Management Committee, since these properties are wholly-owned by the National Park Service, and their continued existence and staffing are by special arrangement with NPS and ATC. As shelters chairman, I actually have nothing to do with the care, maintainence, or staffing of these facilities.

When these two locations were brought on line, many of us began calling them "hostels", but that was frowned upon by NPS/ATC, since the term "hostel" implies a certain level of expectation with regard to amenities, and these facilities intentionally fall below that level. And the term "facility" seems rather sterile and academic, so the term "shelter" came to be applied to both locations, since it was more in keeping with our intentions: a "primitive" structure (as opposed to one with "modern" conveniences) into which one could take refuge from the elements.

The food deliveries didn't become an issue UNTIL the advent of cell phone usage on the trail, which, to me, still seems rudely out-of-place in the woods. Perhaps the real solution to this problem would be for NPS to ban the use of all cell phones on the AT!

And I STILL stand by my "thank you" to Warren....

[Lone Wolf]

Actually, under the current division of responsibilities within the club, both the Rt. 501 "shelter" and the Eckville "shelter" fall under the jurisdiction of the Corridor Management Committee, since these properties are wholly-owned by the National Park Service, and their continued existence and staffing are by special arrangement with NPS and ATC. As shelters chairman, I actually have nothing to do with the care, maintainence, or staffing of these facilities.

When these two locations were brought on line, many of us began calling them "hostels", but that was frowned upon by NPS/ATC, since the term "hostel" implies a certain level of expectation with regard to amenities, and these facilities intentionally fall below that level. And the term "facility" seems rather sterile and academic, so the term "shelter" came to be applied to both locations, since it was more in keeping with our intentions: a "primitive" structure (as opposed to one with "modern" conveniences) into which one could take refuge from the elements.

The food deliveries didn't become an issue UNTIL the advent of cell phone usage on the trail, which, to me, still seems rudely out-of-place in the woods. Perhaps the real solution to this problem would be for NPS to ban the use of all cell phones on the AT!

And I STILL stand by my "thank you" to Warren....

they're hardly shelters or hardly needed fo hikers. they're at roads with running water and electricity. start charging hikers to use them. or just shut them down and raize the buildings

[Lone Wolf]

they're hardly shelters or hardly needed fo hikers. they're at roads with running water and electricity. start charging hikers to use them. or just shut them down and raize the buildings

make that raze

[fiddlehead]

Once again, it all comes down to HYOH!
Cell phones are not going to go away.
Banning them is too much like removing all the shelters and is not going to happen.

It won't be long before most hikers will be spending their camp time online, doing work, watching porn, or uploading the days pictures (i guess they already do this)

Like Warren said, the best thing to do is make up your mind how you want your hike to go and make it happen. (if that means staying away from the party-ers than so be it)

There are lots of choices in our world today.
Consider yourself lucky to have them.
Don't abuse them and give it your best shot at attaining your goal.

[shelterbuilder]

they're hardly shelters or hardly needed fo hikers. they're at roads with running water and electricity. start charging hikers to use them. or just shut them down and raize the buildings

PRECISELY the reason why a caretaker is needed at these 2 locations - they ARE at road crossings, and would likely become "party-hardy" sites without a caretaker-in-residence.

The electricity at Eckville is incidental (it was there when NPS acquired the structures). The water at 501 is one of the few DEPENDABLE water sources on the ridgetop during a drought; water also tends to be scarce on the section north of Eckville during dry times.

Other clubs may charge fees at other locations - we do not. (BTW - some folks view the use of fees as a management tool, used mainly to discourage hikers from using a site by charging a fee for something that was previously "free".)

[High Life]

just read only the first sentance of each post on this thread. it took like an hour. it seemed. im so frikkin bored. guess what? this threads boreing level is in perfect equilibrium with my own personal bordom. creating a sort of soothing ,...yet horribly un interesting effect. furthermoore baltimore jack tarlin is filled with strawberrie filling contraire to poulare urban legond that hes filled with chocolate moose. we , being me alone and by my self, return you now to your maby interesting thread. ill give ya that.

crap there goes my the roy ( pre-nounced " the row E" )
that hes a creme filled lovable twinky
( all mis spelled on pre posee' )
to make it more interesting
meh i'll settle for strawberry ..

[Lone Wolf]

The water at 501 is one of the few DEPENDABLE water sources on the ridgetop during a drought; water also tends to be scarce on the section north of Eckville during dry times.

oh poor babies if one chooses to hike that area in dry times they should plan accordingly. go to town and stock up

[MOWGLI]

Warren, good to see you posting. Since few here have your long term perspective, it is appreciated.

[TD55]

[quote=shelterbuilder;866957]Actually, under the current division of responsibilities within the club, both the Rt. 501 "shelter" and the Eckville "shelter" fall under the jurisdiction of the Corridor Management Committee, since these properties are wholly-owned by the National Park Service, and their continued existence and staffing are by special arrangement with NPS and ATC. As shelters chairman, I actually have nothing to do with the care, maintainence, or staffing of these facilities.

quote]

Huh? Have you ever worked for the government or been in politics? Soooo, what the heck does the shelters chairman do besides not have anything to do with care, maintenence or staffing?

[YeOldeBackpacker]

I have read this entire thread, Shelterbuilder and Emerald are correct on many subjects, and the only reason I feel the need to offer my insight is because we are located right between both of these shelters in Port Clinton. I know both of these caretakers, and what I think everyone is missing here is yes they do have to deal with a lot of crap from hikers, BUT on the other hand, whenever a hiker ends up at either location that needs medical care or their dog needs a vet both of these men will pick up a phone and call us and ask "hey can you meet me at I have an injured...."
We all do this, we don't ask to be compensated, we do not make a big deal about it, we do it out of kindness, and we share the expense between us, BUT I have also had hikers argue with me because the pavilon in Port Clinton does not allow booze or car camping on the property.
Does it work on your nerves when you are emptying the trash cans and a hiker allows his dog to chew holes in the bags while you clean the cans out yep, does it really really crank a person up when you tell the hiker about it and give them a bag to clean up the mess their dog made and they just walk away? you have no idea, I think that if all hikers would consider the shelters and towns as if it was where they lived instead of just passing thru, most of these problems would go away on there own.

I see hikers everyday, just leaving their trash on the porch at the post office, I see hikers throwing candy rappers on the trail, I see hikers carving there name on shelter walls and table tops, What for the love of god is wrong with you people? This HYOH is a bunch of crap, GROW UP!! treat the trail as if you are a guest, because you are, treat the shelters as if someone took the time to build them so you have a place to step out of a storm or spend the night, treat the towns you hike into with the respect they deserve, I had a guy the other day argue with one of our staff that he had to allow him to use our telephone to call pizza hut when the guy had his cell phone charging, do we allow hikers to use our phone anymore nope you want to know why? its simple all we ask is please limit your calls to 5 min, if its long distance please use a calling card, and to tell you the truth I got tired of having to say excuse you have been on our phone for 35 minutes please hang up, and at the end of the month when the telephone bill comes with over a thousand dollars of long distance calls placed by hikers, ALL of the hikers have lost that privialge now. So if Ron or Mick have taken away things like trash cans, soda machines, snacks, whatever, there is a valid reason for it, You want to complain thats great, start with the right group, the people who caused the restrictions, not the people that have to enforce them. What I think is misunderstood by a lot of the hikers is it is not anyones responsability but your own to take care of your own needs or dispose of your own trash, why should these people have to pay to have your trash hauled away for you anyway? Do you realize how frustrating it is to have to walk up to a bunch of adults and say I'm sorry but the sign you are sitting under asks that you don't do that here, so please refrain from it. What can possibly give you the impression that the rest of the world is willing to clean up after you, cater to you, offer you free food, free rides, and then clean up after you. So your hiking big deal, lots of people hike everyday, you are lucky enough to be able to thru hike good for you, but really if you want to be waited on hand and foot bring a support crew with you and have them waiting at the road crossings.
I mean really if you don't like the rules at these shelters, just roll on by, nobody made you take the blue blaze to get to them in the first place but you......

[Wise Old Owl]

oh poor babies if one chooses to hike that area in dry times they should plan accordingly. go to town and stock up

Not quite sure why you posted that so - un-tackfully Shelterbuilder was not whining and I appreciated reading Shelterbuilder's posts.

And after the wet season we just had it won't be dry for a while.


Whoops.... Ye Old Backpacker should have had the last word... Close the thread!

[fiddlehead]

Well, Ye Olde Backpacker, chances are I know you to see as i am from Sch Haven.
But, you can make your rules till the cows come home, it isn't going to stop people from using cell phones on the trail and having pizzas delivered.
Go ask Valenti's down the street if they'll stop it from their end? Or Russo's.

Not saying they should litter with the results, just sayin they're gonna do it and it would be better to adjust accordingly rather than trying to stop it.

Maybe that means charging money? Maybe it means not letting them eat it on your premises, or maybe it means tearing them down if it bothers you so much.

And i've yet to see a thru-hiker with more than 1 week on the trail throwing his candy wrapper on the trail. Local hunters maybe, hikers-NO!

[attroll]

Enough said. Closing this thread.