Any females want to start, late Feb, 2010?

[jhnewlin]

Hey Shelter Leopard,

My Roomate and I (both Female) are hitting the trail in late February too (after a visit with some friends in New Orleans for Mardi Gras!) Anyway, we were looking to start Feb 18th-ish, but it wasn't set in stone.

We're relatively novice hikers, so i wouldn't expect a "motivational" pace, but it would be nice to have someone to keep up with and hang out with for the first week or two!

Keep me posted!

[ShelterLeopard]

That'd be great- I'm leaving New Jersey on Amtrak on February 21 (overnight sleeper train), arriving in Gainesville, GA February 22, staying the night at The Hiker Hostel, and hitting the trail on February 23. If you want to join me then, that would be awesome! (If that's too late for you, I could start out maybe two or three days earlier) And I know what I'm doing, but I'm not in fantastic shape, so I won't be moving to fast in the beginning either. I like to start out pretty slow. So if that sounds good to you, that would be great!

[apsterbobed]

My girlfriend and I should be starting on the 21, it looks like there is going to be many people starting around that time. I was wondering how many people would be starting that early.

[bigcranky]

Speaking about the Thermawrap jacket,

I'll be starting in February- do you think it'll be warm enough? (I can always add a layer or two, of course)

No, it won't. You can expect low temps in the single digits on at least a few nights that time of year at the highest elevations. I would be prepared for some very cold nights through mid-April, anyway. The Thermawrap Jacket is a very nice jacket, but it doesn't have anywhere near the loft to keep an average hiker warm sitting around camp much below freezing. (And my poor wife would freeze in it below 50. But then she's always cold.)

My personal opinion is that something like the Montbell Alpine Light jacket would be a better choice. The hooded Parka version is even better. Not as light as the Thermawrap, but you'll appreciate it. Even that isn't enough for extended very cold conditions.

The 15-degree bag is a decent choice, maybe the bare minimum for an early start. You'll want warm dry clothes to sleep in, and a warm puffy jacket to layer over your torso on the coldest nights. I always carry a warmer hat and gloves for camp use and sleeping, too.

Two pieces of good news:

1. You have all winter to fine tune your system. You can car camp or sleep in the yard in the coldest possible weather -- it'll help a lot. Even better, go for a walk with all your gear -- a couple of overnight hikes will fine tune your system. Be safe and stay close enough to bail if you get too cold.

2. At the 30 mile mark in Georgia, you'll come to a great outfitter. If you are too cold, they'll help fix that.

Somebody back in this thread mentioned going to an outfitter and just asking for all the right clothes. This is a good idea ONLY if that outfitter is has experience with AT hikers. If there is any way you can go to Mountain Crossings at Neels Gap for a day, that's the place to go.

I wrote my thoughts on cold weather layering in a post here.

Happy trails.

[ShelterLeopard]

I know! I am definitely grateful for the Walasi-Yi , even having never been there. And I went ahead and got a warmer down jacket (warmer than the therma-wrap) AND a fleece to go under it, and some nice long underwear.

And apster, I was wonering too- somehow I thought I would be one of two or three people starting around Febraury 20, but it sounds like a lot of people are starting then.

[BrianLe]

"The Thermawrap Jacket is a very nice jacket, but it doesn't have anywhere near the loft to keep an average hiker warm sitting around camp much below freezing."

To be clear, the following is not intended to be argumentative (!), so much as just sharing different points of view. That said ...

I too plan to start in late Feb and current plan is to bring a thermawrap jacket plus --- now I've been convinced --- to add a size-larger thermawrap vest I can layer over that. The key phrase for me in the above quote is "sitting around camp". When it's particularly cold, or buggy, or rainy, I'm disinclined to sit around camp, unless that sitting is done more than partway inside my sleeping bag and in whatever shelter I use (though I also don't use a double-wall tent, so no warmth bonus there).

I.e., it's in part a "style" thing. When conditions are unpleasant for whatever reason, be efficient/quick at camp chores and then crawl into shelter plus sleeping bag if temps suggest that. A 20 degree down bag outside of cocoon pants and two thermawrap layers at my core will hopefully be sufficient to at least be safe if not indeed warm enough given my personal metabolism.

Related is what sort of physical condition I start the trail in. Days are shorter in late Winter, so if I'm in decent starting shape it should be easier to hike until declining daylight suggests it's time to stop, eat, and sleep. Otherwise, indeed, there's more "sitting around camp" time!

And certainly if it's clear that I've been too aggressive, I can opt for something different at Neels Gap. But I really like the flexibility of being able to layer lighter synthetic warmth layer options to wear inside my down bag --- and possibly even to wear one of them when walking if it's really really cold during the day. So hopefully this will work out okay.

Again, no argument intended, just a different point of view.

[bigcranky]

Hi, Brian,

I won't take that as argumentative. Everyone is different. Adding the vest over the Thermawrap jacket will more than double the loft (b/c of trapped air between the layers,) so you should be fine. The coldest nights might be a little chilly, but it's not going to be a disaster.

One thing to keep in mind, though, is hiking experience. A lot of hikers start the AT with little or no extended hiking experience. They have heavy packs, sore feet, the trail is harder than they expected, it's cold, etc., and so they end up doing fairly short mileage days. Camp chores take a long time -- many hours, in some cases, for things that would take an experienced hiker 30 minutes. Having met a lot of these hikers, I tend to be fairly conservative in my advice.

For example, on a very cold morning an experienced hiker can be up, out of the bag, and walking in 20-30 minutes. Breakfast is eaten while walking to stay warm. This past March we met an older hiker who took four hours to hit the trail after waking up. It took that long for him to get water, make breakfast, and break camp at the Hawk Mountain Shelter. So when somebody asks about clothing for a late February start, I'm thinking more about that guy than about a PCT thru-hike veteran.

So it's a tough balance between having a light pack (which is important), and having enough clothing to survive (which is also important.) The point of balance will be different for each hiker -- in some cases, *very* different based on physical condition, experience levels, etc.

The good news is that it only takes a couple of weeks for the inexperienced hikers to get their acts together. But they can be some hard weeks, as the dropout rate attests.

Happy trails, amigo.

--Ken

[apsterbobed]

you all have me worried now that we are not going to be warm enough. I didn't plan on bringing a jacket, all i was going to bring was my rain shell and a fleece or two, plus thermals. we don't do much camping in the winter and have never been out for more than 2 nights in colder temps.

[bigcranky]

you all have me worried now that we are not going to be warm enough. I didn't plan on bringing a jacket, all i was going to bring was my rain shell and a fleece or two, plus thermals. we don't do much camping in the winter and have never been out for more than 2 nights in colder temps.

A fleece is an insulating layer, same as a down or synthetic jacket. Used over a base layer (thermals) and under a rain shell, it provides a fair amount of warmth. With a 200-weight fleece (medium weight) under a rain shell, I'm good sitting around camp down into the high 30s, maybe. (Assuming I have a good hat and gloves, and my feet are warm.)

If you are thru-hiking, starting in Georgia, whether you will be cold depends on your start date. Starting in late February, I would be very cold with just a fleece and a rain shell. Starting in mid-April it would probably be fine.

As I mentioned above, you have all winter to find tune your winter clothing list.

[cowboy nichols]

I would sugest a tent as it is warmer.If the temps are very cold bank dry leaves around 3 sides. Shelters are very cold sleeping in winter I am told .I never sleep in shelters but met some people who did and they said they were very cold.

[ShelterLeopard]

Just to re-awaken this thread (and no more talk about cold weather gear!!!)...

[ShelterLeopard]

That'd be great- I'm leaving New Jersey on Amtrak on February 21 (overnight sleeper train), arriving in Gainesville, GA February 22, staying the night at The Hiker Hostel, and hitting the trail on February 23. If you want to join me then, that would be awesome! (If that's too late for you, I could start out maybe two or three days earlier) And I know what I'm doing, but I'm not in fantastic shape, so I won't be moving to fast in the beginning either. I like to start out pretty slow. So if that sounds good to you, that would be great!

Change the date of departure to February 18th (from New Jersey), overnight at The Hiker Hostel on Febraury 19th, starting the trail on Febraury 20th.

[smankin]

I am 18 and female and looking for someone to hike with starting in April/May 2010 and going north

[Jim Adams]

You will be cold with a 15* bag and a feb. start. I use a 0* bag from Springer thru the Grayson Highlands and take a down jacket and I'm a little old fat man with LOTS of insulation.

geek

[ShelterLeopard]

I also have the 15 degree liner (it adds 15 degrees of warmth to the bag), and I am naturally very warm. And I love the cold (though, not so much at night if I can't make it go away!)

[Red Beard]

I may be mistaken, but I think your own body weight may have something to do with how warm you stay in a bag. I'm a hefty guy at 220 lbs, and IMHO the same bag that keeps me warm, is not going to keep someone who's 110 pounds just as warm.

In my case vs the 110 pounder, more body heat is being produced. All the bag does, is trap that heat.

[skinewmexico]

All I know is I would be out in the yard testing my system, every time a cold front rolled thru. Better to find out it won't work when you can get up and go into the house.

[Blissful]

All I know is I would be out in the yard testing my system, every time a cold front rolled thru. Better to find out it won't work when you can get up and go into the house.

Good idea. PLenty of cold nights. Try it also with your gear and single digits. You can and will hit that.

[ShelterLeopard]

That's what I was planning- and it can get pretty cold here in December and January.

[codpilot]

Yep - I can attest the GA mountains in Feb are rather cold to say the least!

Liner for the sleeping bag - well worth it (saves the stink later too - and it can make a nice light bag when it gets warmer - using the warmer bag as a quilt. I do most of my hiking that way. Double up for cold - "quilt" and liner for warmer as needed.

Light fleece jacket with a medium weight down jacket over it (rain gear on top of that) for camping warmth. Keeps me warm to 0 and I run to the cooler side at night (warmer when I hike). Layers for hiking, and yeah practice before you go!

Of course lots of stops for hot chocolate as needed for calories and warmth. Oh yeah, make sure you eat lots when it's cold - you're burning a whole bunch more than you think!

As for hiking partners - while it might be nice to plan ahead - you may find that you'll have a bunch of folks to keep you company - all ages and sex. And at that time of the year - maybe more than you want

walk well!