Fears about condensation...

[slugger]

I have a REI Quartdome T1 and a REI Sub Kilo (I know I got the woman's long version but its what REI sent me when the mens overstock was back ordered...)

I have done a few week long trips with it now and I am very concerned about condensation inside the tent and it making my bag wet. Now this isn't a big deal for a 5 day trip but I am worried about this for my thru-hike.

What do you guys/girls do to help prevent condensation when you have a down bag? Would something as simple as putting a towel or sleeping pad help or would the sleeping pad just get the condensation on it too?

[slugger]

Not really sure why I can't edit my posts but for some reason my sleeping bag link didn't work. So here it is... REI Sub Kilo

[Lyle]

One question, then a couple comments.

Are you happy with the woman's bag? Not too tight in the shoulders?

You will always have some condensation to deal with. A double wall tent keeps most of it away from your bag, but if you have a bathtub floor, you will still get wet if you move up against it. If you have room to place your pack or something between you and the sidewalls, that will help. About a sleeping pad. You need one for insulation. A down bag will offer virtually no insulation from the ground. It will not cause more condensation and will prevent the condensation under your bag if that's what you are getting.

Regarding it not being bad for a 5-day trip, but more of a problem for a thru. A thru hike is nothing more than a series of 4 or 5 day trips, just strung out back to back. You should have opportunities daily, surly every 4 or 5 days to dry your gear. When carrying a down bag, make sure to take advantage of every opportunity to air your bag in the sun, even if you don't think it is damp - it is if you slept in it. An hour or two or three of hanging in the sun each day possible while you set up camp and fix dinner will do wonders for keeping your down dry and comfortable. Just make sure to bring it in before the evening dew starts to form. If the only sun is during the afternoon while you are hiking, and it's been a couple days since you could dry your bag, hang it over your pack while you hike, using the footbox like a hood. Works well.

Good Luck and HAVE FUN!!!

[slugger]

Are you happy with the woman's bag? Not too tight in the shoulders?

I was worried about that at first because I do have broad shoulders but I have had no problems with it at all.

A thru hike is nothing more than a series of 4 or 5 day trips, just strung out back to back.

I never really thought about it like that. I had never hung the bag out while hiking I would worry about it ripping/getting dirty. I always let it dry good once I'm home safe and would deal with slight dampness every night while hiking. Good incite and good idea, thank you.

[Lyle]

Just make certain your shoulders aren't compressing the down - will end up cold.

Have to choose where you hang the bag while hiking, obviously not while going through wet brush or climbing over blow-downs, but if the conditions are right it works well.

[Jeff]

Where you pitch your tent is a major part of reducing condensation.

A breeze will almost completely eliminate condensation.

Try to avoid pitching a single wall tent near a stream or pond.

I've had good luck locating my tent under a tree with with a large canopy. That really keeps condensation to a minimum.

My most successful trick was buying a two person tent for only myself. That keeps me and my gear dry all night long.

[bigcranky]

The down in your bag is likely to get wet more from your perspiration as you sleep than from condensation inside your tent. I take out my bag as often as once a day when the sun is shining, open it flat, and drape it over a bush or rock. Flip it over after a little while. Lunch is usually a good time for this, but it can be first thing in the morning when I am packing up, or when I get to camp for the evening. This makes a huge difference in loft in my down bag.

[Manwich]

I put my backpack at my feet, covered sometimes, so that it will press against the tent wall instead of my bag. Otherwise, I don't have to worry at all about my sides in my Six Moon Designs Lunar Solor... one side is so far off and the other side is no-see-um

[slugger]

My most successful trick was buying a two person tent for only myself. That keeps me and my gear dry all night long.

I was wondering if that would help... I was thinking about upgrading to the REI Quarter Dome T2. Haven't decided if it's worth it yet as I love my little T1.(other then the condensation )

The down in your bag is likely to get wet more from your perspiration as you sleep than from condensation inside your tent.

While I agree it's not all condensation in this case a lot of it is. I wake up in the middle of the night can feel the out side of my bag getting wet and the inside of my tent floor wet... I will have to make sure I leave it out during break times!

I put my backpack at my feet, covered sometimes, so that it will press against the tent wall instead of my bag.

Sadly my bag doesn't fit inside my tent.

[kanga]

if i'm out longer than a few days, i always have a trash compacter bag in my pack. sometimes to line the whole inside of the pack, sometimes around my bag and clothes and sometimes just packed away in case. if it looks like a heavy condenstion night, i'll put the trash bag over the bottom of my bag since my feet are really the only part that ever might touch the sides.

[beakerman]

Your floor is geting wet? what is that floor made of? I see they say "coated rispstop nylon" but coated with what? If it's truely coated as in urethane coated then the only way it can get wet is if you are sweating up a storm. Otherwise yoru moisture could be coming up from the ground. I'm not intemately familiar with this tent so I am only operating from my previous experiences with light weight tent/floor materials.

I found that the straight nylon (not urethane coated) tends to get wetter inside than one of those old school urethane coated or even the poly/tarp type floors. This is fixed easily enough with a non-permeable membrane under teh tent--a proper ground cloth. It can be something as simple as a sheet of plastic shower curtain or you can get all fancy and cut up a poly-tarp to size and flash the edges.

That's just my thoughts on this. Like I said I dont have that particular tent but I always use a ground cloth and my tent floor is almost never wet.

[stranger]

If you are just talking about the footbox of the bag then simply slide a breathable wind jacket over the foot of the bag, so basically you would zip up the jacket, then slide your feet into the opening and pull the jacket up around your footbox.

I used a Marmot DriClime for this, a waterproof jacket might not be breathable enough. Works well for me.

And you will have condensation on any tent

[bigcranky]

a waterproof jacket might not be breathable enough.

A waterproof jacket is definitely not breathable enough. My wife has tried that with her w/b rain shell, and while it stops the wind from coming through the bag, you still end up with a wet bag inside.

A wind shirt will act like a breathable bivy sack, adding wind and moisture protection. (I'm not talking about Goretex bivies here, though.)

[kanga]

you people must sweat like crazy in your bags. the only condensation i've ever had to worry about is from the tent.

[Tagless]

My experience is very much in line with bigcranky...

The down in your bag is likely to get wet more from your perspiration as you sleep than from condensation inside your tent.

I take out my bag as often as once a day when the sun is shining, open it flat, and drape it over a bush or rock. Flip it over after a little while. Lunch is usually a good time for this, but it can be first thing in the morning when I am packing up, or when I get to camp for the evening. This makes a huge difference in loft in my down bag.

This approach worked well for my wife and I as well. We didn't need to utilize it often throughout our thru hike, however. Our concern about hiking with down bags was, by in large, misplaced.

[MintakaCat]

I've got a MH Phantom 0 and from time to time it will rub up against the tent and get condensation on it but it's no big deal. The nylon on the bag does a good job keeping the down dry from such events.

I got to agree with Kanga, I don't see how some folks sweat so much in their bags.

[Tinker]

I was worried about that at first because I do have broad shoulders but I have had no problems with it at all.


I never really thought about it like that. I had never hung the bag out while hiking I would worry about it ripping/getting dirty. I always let it dry good once I'm home safe and would deal with slight dampness every night while hiking. Good incite and good idea, thank you.

Insight, not incite. Two completely different meanings.

Lots of folks find themselves tossing their sleeping bags into a clothes dryer when they get into town if it's gotten damp.
Any dry day you have, especially with a breeze, hang your bag over a tree branch, fence, whatever, when you stop for lunch if it has gotten damp.
Works for me on long section hikes. If you carry a bit of extra line say, once you take down your bear bag before breakfast, set up a clothesline and hang your damp belongings on it while you have breakfast. Every little bit helps.

Watch hanging the bag on a bush - ticks.

[slugger]

if it looks like a heavy condenstion night, i'll put the trash bag over the bottom of my bag since my feet are really the only part that ever might touch the sides.

I thought about doing this but I wasn't sure if this would just cause condensation on the inside of the trash bags.

This is fixed easily enough with a non-permeable membrane under teh tent--a proper ground cloth. It can be something as simple as a sheet of plastic shower curtain or you can get all fancy and cut up a poly-tarp to size and flash the edges.

I use the tents foot print. I'm not sure if me sweating is the blame or if it's the weather out side. The rain Fly will get covered in it along with the base of the tent.

If you are just talking about the footbox of the bag then simply slide a breathable wind jacket over the foot of the bag, so basically you would zip up the jacket, then slide your feet into the opening and pull the jacket up around your footbox.

I have thought about doing that. The only thing is it's not just the foot box but the whole tent is so narrow that the problem is the whole bag. I could make a breathable cover almost like an indoor bivvy. Does any one have experience with that?

you people must sweat like crazy in your bags. the only condensation i've ever had to worry about is from the tent.

So a 15 Degree bag isn't the best choice in summer but it's all I got for now. I keep it unzipped and it becomes more of a sleeping pad at times, I'm trying to make it work so I don't have to buy a summer bag for my thru.

Insight, not incite. Two completely different meanings.

Thank you.

Lots of folks find themselves tossing their sleeping bags into a clothes dryer when they get into town if it's gotten damp....
If you carry a bit of extra line say, once you take down your bear bag before breakfast, set up a clothesline and hang your damp belongings on it while you have breakfast. Every little bit helps.

Can you clean and/or dry a down bag in washer dryer? I haven't gotten around to reading the cleaning instructions yet. I would be worried about messing with the down feathers and temp rating. I planned on bringing string for hanging out things like shirts and socks on my thru. I should start doing so for sections and trying it out.

[bigcranky]

I got to agree with Kanga, I don't see how some folks sweat so much in their bags.

The human body is constantly producing moisture, otherwise the skin would dry up and crack. It's called "insensible perspiration" which is why you don't notice it. It's not the same as "sweat."

On early Polar expeditions it was common for sleeping bags to gain 30 or 40 pounds of weight from this phenomenon. (I'm serious.) The solution for expeditions is to use a vapor barrier liner, but that's not a good solution for an AT hike, as it really only works well in very cold weather. Some expedition down bags come with a VBL built into the bag.

Another thing that can get your bag wet is breathing. So stop doing that Actually, it can be a problem for people who like to get all the way down inside their bags on a cold night -- the moisture from your breath will wet your insulation and reduce its loft. Even using the bag normally in winter, I often have a large wet patch around my face when I get up, from my breath condensing on my bag.

Don't put a trash bag over your sleeping bag -- you can end up soaked. If you really need the extra warmth, and the temps are well below freezing, put the trash bag *inside* your sleeping bag, as a VBL (climb inside the trash bag), which will add a lot of warmth and keep your bag lofting all the way. But it's also clammy and damp inside a VBL, though you get used to it pretty quickly, in my experience.

A good down bag is quite water resistant. The down itself is much more water repellent than many people think, and the exterior fabric can get very wet and still protect the down. Just hang it up in the sun every day or two, and you'll be fine.

Finally, if you are really getting that wet inside your tent -- on the floor, no less! -- you may want to look into how you are choosing camp sites, how you are using your tent (i.e., how to maximize ventilation), or maybe start looking for a new tent.

[slugger]

Just make certain your shoulders aren't compressing the down - will end up cold.

Did a little comparison because you got me worried. It has the same shoulder width as the men's regular and has an extra inch at the hips. So it's only down fall is the color.