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Thread: vaccine?

  1. #1
    Registered User Duff's Avatar
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    Default vaccine?

    As I understand it, the availabilty of a Lyme Disease vaccine was discontinued in 2002. Is that correct? Has there been any news of renewed availabilty?

  2. #2
    Registered User Tuckahoe's Avatar
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    I did a web search and came up with this website for Lyme Disease and so here are a couple links that my help you out --

    http://www.lymeinfo.net/index.html

    Part of the same site about vaccines -- http://www.lymeinfo.net/vaccine.html

    Hope that helps.


    By the way I am in Williamsburg as well. I am just around the corner from The Greenleaf and Paul's

  3. #3
    Registered User Toolshed's Avatar
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    Yes, Limerix was pulled in 2002. IIRC, it was originally developed as a JV by
    GSK and Aventis Pasteur (FKA Connaught, now SA) There is no vaccine available currently and no projections of any new product launch in the near future - I have heard rumours that a new formulation of the original is being tested on rodents and that SA is in a JV with another company, but have no other information.
    .....Someday, like many others who joined WB in the early years, I may dry up and dissapear....

  4. #4
    Registered User Duff's Avatar
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    Ford's Colony, myself

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    Registered User Tuckahoe's Avatar
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    Cool, if you're ever visiting Jamestown Settlement, stop by the forge and say hello.

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    Did the vaccine work?

  7. #7

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    Even if there was a Lyme vaccine available the potential risk/cost isn't worth it. Look at the swine flew. It was all blown out of proportion. People bought into the fear and as a result dozens of pregnant women miscarried as a direct result of getting vaccinated. The long term effects of vaccination still are'nt clear. Amish children do not get vaccinated and there are only 2 Amish children diagnosed with autism. Those 2 were adopted and did receive vaccination shots. Hmmmm? As to Lyme disease. Even if you are bit, the tick has to be on your person for 24 hours before you contract Lyme. A thorough inspection each night to remove any ticks that may have hitched a ride throughout the day is a far better alternative than getting injected with something that may have unknown consequences.

  8. #8
    Formerly "Totem"
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    Hopefully, my intervention here will prevent you, Pebble Puppy, from disseminating outright false information.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pebble Puppy View Post
    Look at the swine flew. It was all blown out of proportion. People bought into the fear and as a result dozens of pregnant women miscarried as a direct result of getting vaccinated.
    You could argue that it was "blown out of proportion" because it didn't turn out to be the deadly plague it was made out to be... but then you can argue that it was properly controlled and contained by awesome public awareness.

    An unfortunate statistic I will admit. I would much rather a woman miscarry than be the "patient zero" in a region that spread to an exponential amount of people. Odds are, she would miscarry with the virus and then infect a few people who infect a few themselves and I'm sure we'd have heard about more infants dying of it in the news.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pebble Puppy View Post
    The long term effects of vaccination still are'nt clear. Amish children do not get vaccinated and there are only 2 Amish children diagnosed with autism. Those 2 were adopted and did receive vaccination shots. Hmmmm?
    Two Things. Firstly: The Amish Do Vaccinate. http://autism.about.com/b/2008/04/23...y-be-lower.htm

    Second: There hasn't been a single study sanctioned by the entire body of science that links Autism and Vaccinations. If you know of one, please let myself and the entire body of Science would like to hear it... but Oprah and Jenny McCarthy have been thoroughly debunked. Your anecdote is worthless here and looks silly. It does not encompass the trillions of other life choices we've made different than the Amish (Plastics, Electricity, Asbestos, HFCS, Soda, MSG, the list goes on)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pebble Puppy View Post
    As to Lyme disease. Even if you are bit, the tick has to be on your person for 24 hours before you contract Lyme.
    Actually, It's TYPICAL that a tick will infect you around 24 hours of contact. He can still bite you and vomit into your blood stream within an hour of contact... Lymes doesn't need to incubate for such time. It just so happens that the anerobic disease will manifest better in a sleeping person because of the diminished level of oxygen in the blood (as opposed to being active.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pebble Puppy View Post
    A thorough inspection each night to remove any ticks that may have hitched a ride throughout the day is a far better alternative than getting injected with something that may have unknown consequences.
    I totally agree. I spent months on Antibiotics for lymes with a Bebesia Co-Infection and spent hundreds upon hundreds of dollars on Mepron Anti-Malarial Medication and I would have loved to have traded it for a thorough inspection of my 2000 parts after a romp in the connecticut woods as a teenager.

    I think there's fat chance for a Lymes Vaccine... ask your doctor for a 30-day supply of Doxycyclene and inspect your body. If you've found a tick, take it at your discretion. Don't think twice if you get the red ring.
    up over the hills, theres nothing to fear
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    Registered User Jofish's Avatar
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    First off, Thank you Totem. Your reasoned and scientifically-backed response is much appreciated. As someone once said, "The plural of anecdote is not data".

    I would like to "second" one of Totem's sentiments - there is no actual evidence linking vaccines to autism. In fact, the most famous and quoted study linking them was recently retracted. In that study the sample study was very small (n=12 I believe) and the individuals were actually hand-picked. He basically falsified the data. I also read somewhere that he is being sued. He deserves it; vaccines are probably the second biggest biomedical discovery ever, after antibiotics (IMO).

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/lif...cle5683671.ece

    Back on topic - does anyone know why they stopped making the Lymes vaccine? Poor effectiveness? Side effects? Poor sales?

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jofish View Post
    First off, Thank you Totem. Your reasoned and scientifically-backed response is much appreciated. As someone once said, "The plural of anecdote is not data".

    I would like to "second" one of Totem's sentiments - there is no actual evidence linking vaccines to autism. In fact, the most famous and quoted study linking them was recently retracted. In that study the sample study was very small (n=12 I believe) and the individuals were actually hand-picked. He basically falsified the data. I also read somewhere that he is being sued. He deserves it; vaccines are probably the second biggest biomedical discovery ever, after antibiotics (IMO).

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/lif...cle5683671.ece

    Back on topic - does anyone know why they stopped making the Lymes vaccine? Poor effectiveness? Side effects? Poor sales?
    They pulled it because people were having criippling reactions to it. Autoimmune stuff.

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    There are old threads on WB with good info on Lyme disease.
    I know people around here that have had Lyme from working in their yard. I seem to remember a number of people with it on WB or trailjournals. It's more common in southern New England, NY and, if I remember right, NJ, PA. It's less common down south, but becoming more common. I forget the prevalence in northern New England, but it's there.
    http://www.stopticks.org/prevention/index.asp
    this link from lymeinfo.net has the basics of prevention.
    Basically, permethrin on your clothes (especially shoes, socks, pants; put DEET on exposed skin; check for ticks daily (and don't forget the deer ticks are small).
    My choice in the woods is to wear long pants with shoes and socks treated with permethrin and long sleeve shirt treated with permethrin unless it's ungodly hot. I'll minimize DEET usage, because I'm afraid that it will trigger my asthma.

    There are other tick borne diseases.

    Vaccines: Most medications, including vaccines, have side effects, which are sometimes serious. There is a tradeoff. With vaccines the tradeoff is between the effects of catching the disease and side effects of the vaccine. Fatal diseases are making a come back because of the fear of vaccines. My son caught whooping cough (pertussis) 2 months ago; it's not usually serious in adults but has a substantial mortality rate in infants. Fortunately, my infant granddaughter did not catch it. Pertussis comeback is because not as many people get the DPT vaccine anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pebble Puppy View Post
    People bought into the fear and as a result dozens of pregnant women miscarried as a direct result of getting vaccinated.
    FYI:
    H1N1 flu has proved particularly lethal in pregnant women: since April, 2009,
    100 pregnant women have been admitted to ICU in the U.S. for H1N1-related illness; 28 of these died.

    Panzer

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by take-a-knee View Post
    They pulled it because people were having criippling reactions to it. Autoimmune stuff.
    But how can that be? Vaccines are supposed to be perfectly safe. Our government would not rush a vaccine into use that would have harmful consequences.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Panzer1 View Post
    FYI:
    H1N1 flu has proved particularly lethal in pregnant women: since April, 2009,
    100 pregnant women have been admitted to ICU in the U.S. for H1N1-related illness; 28 of these died.

    Panzer
    Yes Flu is lethal. Surprise surprise. However the swine flu has proven to be no more lethal than other seasonal flus that come and go each year.

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    The conspiracy theorists think there's more to the story about lyme disease. Check out the trailer for the documentaryUnder Our Skin.

  16. #16

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    Thanks for the info on the Amish. Obviously I am one of those who read something contrary. I wonder if the study made the distinction between Mennonite and Amish?

  17. #17

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    I used to try to educate people who spout all that ridiculous nonsense about vaccinations and autism but then I realized I was interfering with natural selection.

    The Lyme vaccine was pulled from the market for many reasons including the need for a series of three vaccinations and then boosters and low effectiveness even under those circumstances, resulting in great expense and low demand.

    In addition, Lyme is only one of many similar diseases you can get from ticks and the vaccine didn't give any protection against any of those other diseases so you still had to take all the same precautions that you would have taken without vaccination.

    Anyone thruhiking the A.T. needs to read about ticks and the diseases they carry from reliable sources such as the CDC so they can take precautions, spot symptoms, and seek treatment when necesssary.

    Having the wrong information about tick-borne disease ("The tick has to be on you for 24 hours for you to get sick.") or about swine flu ("The flu vaccination is more dangerous for pregnant woment than the flu.") or about vaccinations ("Preservatives in vaccines cause autism.") can result in serious consequences such as brain damage or death.

    Get facts and ignore statements made in ignorance.

  18. #18
    Registered User gunner76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pebble Puppy View Post
    But how can that be? Vaccines are supposed to be perfectly safe. Our government would not rush a vaccine into use that would have harmful consequences.
    No medication or vaccine is "100% safe". Certain drugs that do not faze me are potentially life threatening to my mother. Every drug and or vaccine has potential side effects. For a real education, read the safety warnings on the back of your favorite over the counter "safe" drug and learn all the possible side effects.

    Side note, years ago my father was heading one of the several research teams trying to figure out what Lyme disease was before it was known. Another research group published their findings first. I tease my dad about being almost famous. Fortunately he is the type of researcher that cared more about research than fame. Only bad thing was he was always telling us kids about all the potentially dangerous diseases or parasites we could catch.
    Hammock Hanger by choice

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  19. #19

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    Not a conspiracy theorist. Just a little wary about something that we are told is perfectly safe that has been proven to have very negative and even lethal short term side effects and possible long term side effects about which we are still unaware or just starting to find out about. Is it better than the alternative? Certainly for some. For others not so much. As for the link to autism. I guess some would say it;s nonsense and deserves no further exploration. Apparently there is misinformation out there about the Amish/vaccine/autism link and I am not the only one who has read about it. Even within the information provided that discredited what I'd heard it stated that there was a lower % of Amish vaccinated and a lower % of autism among their population. Is there a link? Who knows? Suggesting that someone is ignorant because they feel more investigation and research should be done and they have some reservations about taking vaccines is....well,,,,ignorant

  20. #20
    Formerly "Totem"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pebble Puppy View Post
    Suggesting that someone is ignorant because they feel more investigation and research should be done and they have some reservations about taking vaccines is....well,,,,ignorant
    Who has suggested this?
    up over the hills, theres nothing to fear
    theres a pub across the way with whisky and beer
    its a lengthy journey on the way up to the top
    but it ain't so bad if you have a great big bottle o'scotch

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