Appalachian Trl. an 'amazing opportunity' for witness - BP News

[JAK]

Hmmm. How did one of those sentences end up longer than the other?
Ah. Mispelled fundamentalist in the first sentence. Fun stuff.

I hope no one is getting too annoyed by this thread. I find it very good on all sides.

[DrRichardCranium]

The truth of our faith becomes a matter of ridicule among the infidels if any Catholic, not gifted with the necessary scientific learning, presents as dogma what scientific scrutiny shows to be false.

-Saint Thomas Aquinas

[JAK]

That's an interesting quote. Thanks.

Interesting thing about that concept, whether with religious or government authourity, or big business, is that it can lead in two directions. On one hand, it can lead authorities and leaders in the direction of trying to make everyone better educated and better informed. On the other hand it can lead also authorities, or perhaps only their misguided representatives, in the direction of trying to keep people poorly educated, and in the dark. I think the truth is that both directions are always taking place at all times, but history tends to show trends and cycles in one direction and then the other. The same also happens from the ground up, not just from religious or political or business leaders. Sometimes we have grass roots enlightenment. Sometimes we only have a mob.

I need to read more of St.Thomas. We have a local university named after him.

[Roughin' It]

Its unbelievable what unbelievers have to believe to be unbelievers.

I know it. Snakes do not talk. The world is millions of years old. Not thousands. 2 of every animal surviving on a boat for over a month. A guy surviving inside a fish for 3 days. If you subscribe to any other belief system, religious or not, you are automatically damned for eternity. Every person who ever existed was a born sinner. Except for 1 of course. Virgin births. Rising from the dead. All these things and more are so plainly obvious and believable. I just don't see how people can go through their lives and nat accept them as obvious truth.

I believe you misunderstand what he was trying to say. I think the phrase "it takes more faith to be an unbeliever than it does to believe" fits nicely.

I don't have any problem with what these people in the article are doing. I mean it's just talking. let them talk. However I don't like it when these threads turn into a creation vs. evolution or God vs. No God argument. I have my opinion, but I don't feel like expressing it in text format in an online forum of strangers. that doesn't persuade anybody.

[JJJ]

If anyone tries to 'witness' that Bronze Age crap to me while I'm on the trail I will politely ask them to sod off.

Seriously. Taking your rebellious son to the edge of town and stoning him to death? That's OK with you?

Metaphorically speaking, a thru-hike could be considered just that.

In reference to the orignal post, I just hoping Amway doesn't get any ideas.

[modiyooch]

Can't have it both ways. If someone is going to make a statement, then they need to expect a reply.

[Mags]

This thread is reason enough to hike the BMT and stay away from the shelter weenies.

Amen brother!

In reference to the orignal post, I just hoping Amway doesn't get any ideas.

Heh... "I'm a gold level hiker" Buy my special blended soap that is far superior to Dr. Bonners!"

"Amway" would be an interesting trail name...


How much longer until this thread is Godwinned?

[full conditions]

I believe you misunderstand what he was trying to say. I think the phrase "it takes more faith to be an unbeliever than it does to believe" fits nicely.

I don't have any problem with what these people in the article are doing. I mean it's just talking. let them talk. However I don't like it when these threads turn into a creation vs. evolution or God vs. No God argument. I have my opinion, but I don't feel like expressing it in text format in an online forum of strangers. that doesn't persuade anybody.

So if some klansman wants to spew their racist garbage to you - is that just 'talking'. I'm guessing you will tell them 'no thank you' with extreme predjudice. Well how is this any different?: “If a man strikes his servant or his maid with a rod, and he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished. Notwithstanding, if he gets up after a day or two, he shall not be punished, for he is his property."

Really?

It doen't take much faith on my part to reject that ****e.

[full conditions]

Can't have it both ways. If someone is going to make a statement, then they need to expect a reply.

I could not agree more. If you folks want to put your ideas out there in public then you must expect public scrutiny.

[JAK]

Well its more of a question of the quality and suitability of statements and replies. Just because you are free to make a statement, doesn't mean there are no limits. Same with replies. If someone yells "Fire" in a theatre, when there isn't one, that doesn't mean that you should yell "Flood".

[JAK]

So if some klansman wants to spew their racist garbage to you - is that just 'talking'. I'm guessing you will tell them 'no thank you' with extreme predjudice. Well how is this any different?: “If a man strikes his servant or his maid with a rod, and he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished. Notwithstanding, if he gets up after a day or two, he shall not be punished, for he is his property."

Really?

It doen't take much faith on my part to reject that ****e.

There is still value in historical teachings even if they need to be interpreted methaphorically rather than literally. What you just quoted was intended metaphorically, even though its literal content was based upon common practice at the time. Everyone needs to strive towards ironic understanding, whether they chose to be religious or not, to whatever extent they choose. You sound just as dogmatic as the paper dragon you are slaying.

[JustaTouron]

The best way to deal with them is to keep repeating Matthew 6:5 over and over again until they shut the hell up.

[JAK]

Another interesting matter, and I don't know the answer, is how to interpret the past. I have no interest whatsoever in looking at what Hitler's Goverment did with an objectivity. It is too recent. But how far do you need to go back to overlook crimes against humanity. We can study men like St.Thomas Aquinas, and admire them for their advancement of education and modern thought, but to what extent was he also responsible for the brutal genocide of the Cathars? How do we study the past, objectively, without losing some of our humanity in the process? Is it right for Christians and others to study the Old Testament for inspiration and wisdom, without being disturbed by the violence and injustice. I don't believe it is. I believe we have to study the past in its entirety, warts and all, to search for the whole truth. Much of it is ugly, and disturbing, and we cannot allow ourselves to be to callous about that. We shouldn't overlook those things, even when they were done by people we are receiving inspiration from. Will people some day look to find wisdom in Adolf Hitler. Such a thought I find revolting. Yet how many Hitlers in our past are now our Saints? Perhaps more than we would like to know. Sometimes we cannot always understand our past, and we certainly cannot hope to correct all the wrongs of our past. Sometimes we can only hope to serve as witnesses to the horror.

[JAK]

Who today remembers the slaughter of the Cathars?

[WalkSoftly33]

The confluence of our individual beliefs creates the dynamic reality we live in. Convincing others of our individual beliefs is a technique of preservation. It should be expected.

"...In the midst of the crowd keep with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude..."

There is always multiple views on a given subject, each gives value to the individual.

For example beleiving in God and Heaven for eternity, allows an person to live for something greater and expect a great reward in the future for there actions here today (respect for others), but you could say that it debases the value of this life because there is eternity waiting ahead.

Not beleiving in god and the after life places a higher value on the present, because that is all the individual has. This also places a higher value on the lives of others because you view there life as yours (respect for others), and it debases the value of what is after death

My belief is that everything (read choices/beliefs) is a Catch 22 i.e. "there are no absolute truths" (then how can I make that statement, how can I say "everything"...hehe)

Wow its not even noon yet.

People shouldnt be judgemental, oh wait did I have to make a judgement to say that. dam I ll get it one of these days, im still young and impressionable someone here may have a convert to something.

[berkshirebirder]

Life's too short to wade through all this.

Believe your own beliefs (BYOB?)

I wouldn't take advantage of free food or a shower and then get bent out of shape if the provider asks about the condition of my soul. Preaching is an important part of certain faiths; ignoring it is part of mine.

[JAK]

Good stuff.

I think it was Nietch that said something like, "All generalization ultimately fail."

Recently a Canadian scholar on the philosophy of education added...

"... but are still useful."

[Old Hiker]

The confluence of our individual beliefs creates the dynamic reality we live in. Convincing others of our individual beliefs is a technique of preservation. It should be expected.

"...In the midst of the crowd keep with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude..."

There is always multiple views on a given subject, each gives value to the individual.

For example beleiving in God and Heaven for eternity, allows an person to live for something greater and expect a great reward in the future for there actions here today (respect for others), but you could say that it debases the value of this life because there is eternity waiting ahead.

Not beleiving in god and the after life places a higher value on the present, because that is all the individual has. This also places a higher value on the lives of others because you view there life as yours (respect for others), and it debases the value of what is after death

My belief is that everything (read choices/beliefs) is a Catch 22 i.e. "there are no absolute truths" (then how can I make that statement, how can I say "everything"...hehe)

Wow its not even noon yet.

People shouldnt be judgemental, oh wait did I have to make a judgement to say that. dam I ll get it one of these days, im still young and impressionable someone here may have a convert to something.

I'd say (politely!) you had it backwards. Believing that someday you would face your God and be judged on your actions in this world would (should) instill a greater reverence and respect for life in this world. Not believing in a final judgement would cause some to not care what is coming (if anything) in the next world and would act accordingly with no regard for anyone or anything else, other than their own wants and desires.

My faith is mine to share if you ask. Politely ask me to stop and I will. I'll do the same and expect the same respect. I'm too full of questions about the way this world works to be dogmatic about my faith anyway.

[JAK]

Life's too short to wade through all this.

Believe your own beliefs (BYOB?)

I wouldn't take advantage of free food or a shower and then get bent out of shape if the provider asks about the condition of my soul. Preaching is an important part of certain faiths; ignoring it is part of mine.

Well said.

It horrifies me when I study history, like the differences between the Cathars and the Catholics, and how such trivial difference can lead to the extermination of one by the other. This is repeated over and over throughout history, and is not limited to religious differences, or differences in belief. It defies logic though, how we can get from here, to there.

This is something we all need to study and be acutely aware of, whether we are religious, or not.

[JAK]

I'd say (politely!) you had it backwards. Believing that someday you would face your God and be judged on your actions in this world would (should) instill a greater reverence and respect for life in this world. Not believing in a final judgement would cause some to not care what is coming (if anything) in the next world and would act accordingly with no regard for anyone or anything else, other than their own wants and desires.

My faith is mine to share if you ask. Politely ask me to stop and I will. I'll do the same and expect the same respect. I'm too full of questions about the way this world works to be dogmatic about my faith anyway.

I believe in some matters of belief it is often possible for two conflicting ideas to both be correct, even within the same mind. Such belief is harder to put into words, and on paper, how this can be true than to simply feel that it must be true. When I see children's lives cut short, destroyed through acts of violence or injustice, or some arbitrary disease, what am I to believe that makes any sense, and still survive with my humanity intact?

"My heart has joined the thousand, for my friend stopped running today."
- Watership Down