FF Swift or Swallow

[blaster]

I was just wondering who out there had either one of these and what they thought of them. Also looking at places online to purchase one. Thanks.

[Mountain Wildman]

I don't have either, I bought the Winter Wren 25 Degree, FF does make a quality product to be sure, Mine came with a very lightweight silnylon brite yellow stuff sack and a very large cotton drawstring sack for storage. I know this doesn't directly answer your question but I figured I could at least attest to their quality.

[rcli4]

I had the swallow with all the bells and whistles. Bunch of money, worth every penny. I have a Mont bell Super Stretch. Not nearly as well made. Only thing wrong, don't get fat. They are made for skinny folks. I gained 40 lbs and gave mine to a thru hiker last year..

Clyde

[Feral Bill]

I had the swallow with all the bells and whistles. Bunch of money, worth every penny. I have a Mont bell Super Stretch. Not nearly as well made. Only thing wrong, don't get fat. They are made for skinny folks. I gained 40 lbs and gave mine to a thru hiker last year..

Clyde

The Feathered Friends web site has all you need to know. I was at their store Saturday and found the staff there most helpful.

[Mountain Wildman]

I had the swallow with all the bells and whistles. Bunch of money, worth every penny. I have a Mont bell Super Stretch. Not nearly as well made. Only thing wrong, don't get fat. They are made for skinny folks. I gained 40 lbs and gave mine to a thru hiker last year..

Clyde

Amen to that!!
I gained weight and mine is tight, I hope to drop some pounds before my Thru next year and I know I will during 6 months of hiking.
They do offer the wide series as well.

[Dogwood]

Swift has 4 more inches in shoulder width and 2 more inches in the hips than the Swallow. Both have same footbox size. ie: Swallow is designed for narrower shouldered hikers and/or those who want a more thermally efficient, but restrictive sized sleeping bag. Look for dealer reps who carry the bags from their website.

Might I advise, before you commit to either bag you check out some similar sized sleeping bags so you order the one that fits right. Go to an outfitter and get into a bag of comparable sized dimensions. Lay on the floor. Ask yourself, "how does it feel?" I would also be thinking about if I was going to wear extra or lofty clothing inside the bag in which case you might want to size up. Think about how you sleep too. If you just can't stand sleeping feeling very confined you might want to order the larger model.

FF makes some excellent sleeping bags. Just get the right size fit for yourself.

[Dogwood]

I just realized I have a 60" shoulder wide, like the Swallow, 35* WM Highlite Tall version sleeping bag. I'm tall, lanky, weigh about 210 lbs, 34" waist, but have only moderate shoulder width on my med frame. The 60" shoulder width is barely wide enough for me. I did however want a tight thermally efficient sleeping bag. If you are wide shouldered and/or have a wider waist you might need the wider Swift.

[J5man]

I was just wondering who out there had either one of these and what they thought of them. Also looking at places online to purchase one. Thanks.

FF seems to make a great product. However, before making a final decision check out the Western Mountaineering line, may get a better bang for your buck.

[blaster]

Thanks for all the info. The reason I am asking about the FF is because epic fabric is supposed to be water resistant. I use a bivy and with the occasional condensation I figured this would be better. Any know if the WM bags are water resistant. Thanks again for all the responses.

[waywardfool]

I have both a swallow and a swift. In the swift, I have 3 or 4oz of overfill and it is my winter bag. I sleep cold, usually use the swift from mid sept to late april, and the Swallow in late spring and summer. I am 6'2, 210, and have no complaints about elbow room...that said, I'm not a tosser and a turner, and usually, in summer anyway, use it more as a blanket or quilt than zipped up inside it.

I bought my Swallow around 1990, the swift in '92...both gore-tex...zero complaints at all with quality or materials over the 20 years. I have sent both back to FF a couple of times for washing.

[bigmac_in]

I think Vonfrick has the swallow.

[Tin Man]

I think Vonfrick has the swallow.

aren't swallers upwards of $3 hunnert?

[Tin Man]

aren't swallers upwards of $3 hunnert?

http://www.mountainshop.net/feaswallow.html

wow! $345!!

campmor brand 20 degree down bag is much much cheaper and does the same thing - keeps you warm at night

[jen.sprout]

Not much advice except to second the comments on the staff/quality at FF.

I have a winter expedition sleeping bag from FF (meaning it's good to some ridiculously low temperature) - best quality bag I own. Wish I could use it more often. The 800 fill down is just insane. In a good way.

Have a Western Mountaineering bag as well (Megalite I think - been awhile). Also very good quality - I think FF higher quality, but not by a lot. My only complaint with WM bag is that the lightweight fabrics are pretty porous - so if you are a tarp sleeper or get a lot of wind on (and then through) your bag, you may have some cold nights. Hope that makes sense. And I'm a hot sleeper, so it was a bit surprising to me.

Can't attest to waterproofness - I try to keep my down bags protected at all times as best I can and am a tenter. However, again, the lighter weight fabrics can only do so much.

Good luck - whichever way you go, you'll get a good quality bag.

[Dogwood]

campmor brand 20 degree down bag is much much cheaper and does the same thing -Tin Man

Actually NO! Maybe the Campmor 20* 550 down bag w/ taffeta shell is cheaper, but the FF Swift or Swallow w/EPIC shell the OP was looking at does some things different.

Dollars isn't everything Tin Man. The OP already stated why he was looking at FF sleeping bags - because he plans on using the sleeping bag with his bivy. He wants to avoid condensation entering his sleeping bag through a more protective shell(highly water resistant) in the form of EPIC.

Unless Campmor is now manufacturing custom sleeping bags using an EPIC shell the two bags are not exactly comparable in all respects. These respects may mean little to you or me, but they are strong sleeping bag characteristic the OP desires.

I'm not in a position to really pass judgment on all Campmor sleeping bags, because I don't own any, but I have slept in the 20 * 550 down w/ taffeta shell like you mentioned Tin Man for 2 wks straight. A very decent bag at a GREAT price! However, IMHO, not the same wt, quality, cut(fit), or same in function as the FF Swift or Swallow w/ EPIC shell.

Blaster, you don't mention what bivy you wish to pair the bag with, how you camp/sleep( in a shelter(hammock. tent), under a tarp, cowboy with the bivy, etc), if you plan on hiking/camping in 20* weather for LONG periods w/ a down sleeping bag, or in wet weather, what insulation you use under your bivy(if any), etc. Since I think I understand what you are trying to achieve, have you also looked into the Nanosphere shell FF offers? It's no where near as WR as the EPIC, but it might be all you need in a sleeping bag shell to achieve your goal of avoiding condensation from outside the sleeping bag. It's also more breathable which might be helpful transferring more vapor produced from INSIDE the sleeping bag through the shell and to the outside of the sleeping bag thereby allowing you to retain more of your down loft.

[warraghiyagey]

This thread makes me feel funny . . . .

[Tin Man]

dogwood, thanks for the lesson in quality. i believe in quality too, but at a 20-30% premium, not at a nearly 300% premium. even a campmor 0 degree bag is a tremendous bargain in comparison. and dogwood, i was just offering a different perspective. op and you can waste money wherever you see fit. and before you give the bivy speech again, there are other light, more comfortable and reasonable alternatives to a bivy that doesn't require a bag with special specs.

Best of luck with whatever the op decides.

[Tinker]

Thanks for all the info. The reason I am asking about the FF is because epic fabric is supposed to be water resistant. I use a bivy and with the occasional condensation I figured this would be better. Any know if the WM bags are water resistant. Thanks again for all the responses.

Read up on the performance characteristics of Epic. It seems (from what I've read) that in temps. below freezing tents and bivys get ice on the inside of the fabric. Epic is sort of a silnylon with a little less "sil" than a completely waterproof silnylon.
I have no personal experience, however.
I will say that, after using another fabric (laminate really), eVent, I'm not terribly impressed with its breathability but it seems to work a little better than standard Gore-tex.

[Tinker]

Btw, I bought two FF bags (a Rock Wren and an overbag to use with it in winter) back in the '90s, and the workmanship is top notch. The fabric is a bit heavy by today's standards though.
Currently I'm using a Golite Featherr-lite 40 degree (more like a 30 degree) and a Montbell Ulap liner, 1.5 and 1 lb. respectively. My overfilled Rock Wren, by comparison, weighs 2.5 lbs, mainly because it is a straight cut 60/60/60". There's a lot of down that's unemployed because of the lack of taper to the bag.

[Mountain Wildman]

When I ordered my Winter Wren they advised me to order it in the NanoSphere material, I told them it would be used on my Thru-Hike, According to the info on the Nano material, A single tiny water droplet is too large to penetrate the Nano material. They picture a nano particle as a dot the size of a pin and a human hair the size of an orange in comparison. The whole lengthy description is on their site under Fabric Information.